The USA and a complete lack of killer instinct.

[Celtic]

In todays match between John Morra and SVB one thing stuck out to me in the so called "comeback" by Morra. SVB had him down 6-1 in a race to 11 and John was missing and under obvious pressure and instead of keeping the pressure on and drilling John 11-1 SVB let up and allowed Morra to get his feet under him, get some confidence, and it suddenly became a very close match tied at 8-8.

I once watched Wu Chia Ching play Morra in the World Junior 9-ball championships and I remember the match very well, it was very similar to the start of this match, Wu took a lead, Morra looked shaky and nervous, and Wu completely obliterated him, he NEVER let John in the match and simply took him apart.

This is a serious weakness not only in SVB but I see it in a lot of American players. They have no killer instinct, they get a huge lead and as often as not they let up and take it easy and give their opponents air. The Taiwanese do not EVER do this, if they can beat you bad they WILL beat you bad. It not only keeps the match safe and gives their opponent no chance to come back, it also sets seeds in that opponents head for the next match, the "remember that last time we played? Yeah that time you lost 11-1? Yeah, just wanted to make sure.".

If SVB does this in a world championships in international competition it is no wonder he loses. You cannot afford to get up 7-1 in a match against another world class player and let up as if you have already won, those guys will take any chance you give them and they can come back on you. When they get SVB down 7-1 do you think they are going to let "him" back up? No chance, they will finish him off as badly as they are able every time and not give him a chance if they can help it.

THIS is why a guy like SVB cannot win at that level, he is too used to letting off on the gas before he is at the finish line. You cannot go through actual pro matches showing a serious lack of drive to win every game and keep the pressure on and then turn that on when you get to Asia to play against the true killers, if you do not practice like that and play like that day in and day out you cannot "create" that killer instinct when you need it.

Seriously weak showing by SVB, win or lose he had a chance to keep this match from ever getting close at all, instead Morra goes to 10-9 and broke on the hill first (the match is still not quite over). I KNOW that a player that has Morra down like he was down and playing like he was playing only had to keep the pressure on and they walk to the finish line. Brutal, weak, that will not work against the top Taiwanese and Filipinos coming at you one after another who are all gunning to run out the whole set on you.

 

[Kris_b1104]

Being that Morra is lightyears behind SVB and doesn't have even half the accomplishments that Shane has, makes this entire post invalid. Everyone has a bad day, you can't win them all and I doubt SVB needs any advice. Almost every top player lets go of the gas once in a while and get too confident.

 

[Celtic]

Being that Morra is lightyears behind SVB and doesn't have even half the accomplishments that Shane has, makes this entire post invalid. Everyone has a bad day, you can't win them all and I doubt SVB needs any advice. Almost every top player lets go of the gas once in a while and get too confident.

A) this has nothing to do with how good Morra is,
and
B) that is exactly my point, NO, not all of the pros let their foot off the gas like that, specifically the Taiwanese guys, they put 100% into everything, also you will also never see Niels putting 60% into a shot.

SVB got lucky to win that, Morra could easily have broke and run out the 10-9 game, SVB could easily have gotten behind the 9 when he shaped up the 3, he put himself into a position he should NEVER have been in, that should not have ever been a close match at all. SVB is SUPPOSED to win there 11-2 or so.

 

[JumpinJoe]

In todays match between John Morra and SVB one thing stuck out to me in the so called "comeback" by Morra. SVB had him down 6-1 in a race to 11 and John was missing and under obvious pressure and instead of keeping the pressure on and drilling John 11-1 SVB let up and allowed Morra to get his feet under him, get some confidence, and it suddenly became a very close match tied at 8-8.

I once watched Wu Chia Ching play Morra in the World Junior 9-ball championships and I remember the match very well, it was very similar to the start of this match, Wu took a lead, Morra looked shaky and nervous, and Wu completely obliterated him, he NEVER let John in the match and simply took him apart.

This is a serious weakness not only in SVB but I see it in a lot of American players. They have no killer instinct, they get a huge lead and as often as not they let up and take it easy and give their opponents air. The Taiwanese do not EVER do this, if they can beat you bad they WILL beat you bad. It not only keeps the match safe and gives their opponent no chance to come back, it also sets seeds in that opponents head for the next match, the "remember that last time we played? Yeah that time you lost 11-1? Yeah, just wanted to make sure.".

If SVB does this in a world championships in international competition it is no wonder he loses. You cannot afford to get up 7-1 in a match against another world class player and let up as if you have already won, those guys will take any chance you give them and they can come back on you. When they get SVB down 7-1 do you think they are going to let "him" back up? No chance, they will finish him off as badly as they are able every time and not give him a chance if they can help it.

THIS is why a guy like SVB cannot win at that level, he is too used to letting off on the gas before he is at the finish line. You cannot go through actual pro matches showing a serious lack of drive to win every game and keep the pressure on and then turn that on when you get to Asia to play against the true killers, if you do not practice like that and play like that day in and day out you cannot "create" that killer instinct when you need it.

Seriously weak showing by SVB, win or lose he had a chance to keep this match from ever getting close at all, instead Morra goes to 10-9 and broke on the hill first (the match is still not quite over). I KNOW that a player that has Morra down like he was down and playing like he was playing only had to keep the pressure on and they walk to the finish line. Brutal, weak, that will not work against the top Taiwanese and Filipinos coming at you one after another who are all gunning to run out the whole set on you.

You're beginning to sound as silly as DAZ, the tourney player.
Please.

Get you a truckload of those Thais and bring em over. I'm sure SVB will play em one after another. Long 10 ball sets. Let's see em put him away.

 

[Celtic]

You're beginning to sound as silly as DAZ, the tourney player.
Please.

Get you a truckload of those Thais and bring em over. I'm sure SVB will play em one after another. Long 10 ball sets. Let's see em put him away.

Honestly? He has gone over there enough times to try and win their world titles, and he has come back with empty pockets as far as those go.

And "maybe" they would come over and maybe SVB would win that but I don't see SVB racing over there to Asia to play them on their home turf either. Let us not get SVB starting to sound like Johnny Archer, who will play anyone in the world, if they come to his place, and they play him on his table, in his game, for the stakes he choses, ect...

SVB needs to figure out that these shorter races you cannot let up, and he certainly without doubt DOES let up in short races. In a race to 100 he can take his breaks and still win, but in short races you need to be "on" the whole time and you need to not let up. It is not a long time to stay focused, but he seems to lack the ability or will to do so.

 

[boogeyman]

Honestly? He has gone over there enough times to try and win their world titles, and he has come back with empty pockets as far as those go.

And "maybe" they would come over and maybe SVB would win that but I don't see SVB racing over there to Asia to play them on their home turf either. Let us not get SVB starting to sound like Johnny Archer, who will play anyone in the world, if they come to his place, and they play him on his table, in his game, for the stakes he choses, ect...

SVB needs to figure out that these shorter races you cannot let up, and he certainly without doubt DOES let up in short races. In a race to 100 he can take his breaks and still win, but in short races you need to be "on" the whole time and you need to not let up. It is not a long time to stay focused, but he seems to lack the ability or will to do so.

Dear Celtic,
You make some valid arguments in that SVB probably let up a bit (I didn't see the match myself).
Just not sure you should be so tough on him.
The fact that he has accomplished so much to this point is quite indicative of having both some heart and a desire to win.

One match doesn't define a player.

 

[Celtic]

The fact that he has accomplished so much to this point is quite indicative of having both some heart and a desire to win.

Heart and desire are not the same thing as killer instinct. SVB has an abundance of both of those.

Killer instinct is the ability and fire to finish someone when you have them down and out, the focus and drive to not let them back up when you have them down. In many ways it is what failed him in his match against Alex back in the day when he had a big lead. SVB gives up leads and lets people back into matches way too much. He has the heart and desire to pull a lot of them out, but if he had more killer instinct a lot of those people would never get back into the sets after he pulled away the first time.

Anyone know if his loss against Yu Ram Cha in the major event at the Riviera during the BCA nationals is online? I would like to see that one and see how she got there to get that chance.

 

[Kris_b1104]

SVB needs to figure out that these shorter races you cannot let up, and he certainly without doubt DOES let up in short races. In a race to 100 he can take his breaks and still win, but in short races you need to be "on" the whole time and you need to not let up. It is not a long time to stay focused, but he seems to lack the ability or will to do so.

Is this a joke? The guy just won his second consecutive US Open 9 Ball, now having 3 under his belt, and you're saying he needs to figure out not to let up in short races?

He's been undefeated in the last two and the US Open is the epitome of short races.

You're basing every single thing off of this ONE MATCH. I've seen SVB beaten guys 11-0, 10-0, 9-0, so what are you talking about?

And why single Americans out on not having killer instincts? Show me one international player that has NOT have a player come back against them in a match.

 

[KRJ]

Is this a joke? The guy just won his second consecutive US Open 9 Ball, now having 3 under his belt, and you're saying he needs to figure out not to let up in short races?

He's been undefeated in the last two and the US Open is the epitome of short races.

You're basing every single thing off of this ONE MATCH. I've seen SVB beaten guys 11-0, 10-0, 9-0, so what are you talking about?

And why single Americans out on not having killer instincts? Show me one international player that has NOT have a player come back against them in a match.

Exactly. And its' not like GREAT players can't put together a 6 pack now and then when they are behind to make a match of it...happens all the time...not so much that someone let "off" the gas, but that someone else reached deep down inside and decided even though he was getting his arse handed to him, he was NOT going to give up....

 

[Kris_b1104]

.

Killer instinct is the ability and fire to finish someone when you have them down and out, the focus and drive to not let them back up when you have them down. In many ways it is what failed him in his match against Alex back in the day when he had a big lead. SVB gives up leads and lets people back into matches way too much. He has the heart and desire to pull a lot of them out, but if he had more killer instinct a lot of those people would never get back into the sets after he pulled away the first time.

Wrong again.


kill·er in·stinct
noun
noun: killer instinct; plural noun: killer instincts
1.
a ruthless determination to succeed or win.

 

[Celtic]

Wrong again.


kill·er in·stinct
noun
noun: killer instinct; plural noun: killer instincts
1.
a ruthless determination to succeed or win.

That is simply a different shorter wording of the exact same thing I said and that you quoted. Congrats on your ability to search dictionary definitions in Google though.

Also, this is not simply one match or one tournament and it is not even relegated only to SVB (as the title of the thread would indicate). Oscar had the same thing happen, He got lots of open chances to win games against Earl when he was up 8-4 and managed to lose 7 straight games. His game completely collapsed. Rodney and Corey never even got started so I cannot speak as to their ability to close, they never even opened.

 

[Birriards]

Did Push&Pool create a new name?

 

[Masirib5]

If a world class player gets up on another great player, why can the player that was behind also string a bunch of winning racks?

--Jeff

 

[Celtic]

If a world class player gets up on another great player, why can the player that was behind also string a bunch of winning racks?

--Jeff

They totally can. I am not talking about comebacks where guys fire back. What happened to Biado in his match with Ralf was entirely different, Biado did little wrong, Biado did not give up his lead and momentum, Ralf flat out stole it.

What SVB did, what Oscar did, that is different. They got to the table, they had chances, and they let it go and could not keep the intense focus and drive that got them the lead in the first place. You cannot let that drive off, you need to keep that level from game one until the last ball drops and you win. If anyone disagrees with that I am really at a loss as to what to say...

 

[Jaden]

Seems like someone is a little ass hurt...

Seems like someone is a little ass hurt that Shane beat the Canadian Kid....

Jaden :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:

 

[Kris_b1104]

That is simply a different shorter wording of the exact same thing I said and that you quoted. Congrats on your ability to search dictionary definitions in Google though.

Also, this is not simply one match or one tournament and it is not even relegated only to SVB (as the title of the thread would indicate). Oscar had the same thing happen, He got lots of open chances to win games against Earl when he was up 8-4 and managed to lose 7 straight games. His game completely collapsed. Rodney and Corey never even got started so I cannot speak as to their ability to close, they never even opened.

Well your drawn out definition of the term drastically changes its meaning. And how do you manage to respond to that and not the facts about SVB's 3 US Open wins?

Neils is one of my favorite players of all time, but to say he has more killer instinct than any other American is just plain ignorant and foolish. Such a thing could not even be measured in volumes so I don't know how you're even getting to the assumption that Americans have no killer instinct.

That's like me saying Johnny Archer has 3/4th the amount of heart that Ralf Souquet has... It just doesn't make sense.

 

[Jaden]

I can speak from experience...

There is much more pressure on you when you get ahead and someone starts to come back on you than when you are right there with them and you have to play your best.

I have recently had trouble closing out. There were two relatively big tourneys I played in last year that I was up substantially and lost hill hill.

One was a barbox tourney at Jamaica Joe's for the money round where I was up 8-4 in a race to nine alternating break. There's NO ONE that I should lose to in that situation, EVER. I had three breaks in that situation and I BNR more often than 1 in 3 on a Barbox.

The other was two rounds deep in the money in the swannee memorial last year. I was playing perfect and was up 6-2 in a race to seven and lost 7-6.

It's all mental, but it's not as bad as I had been in the past. Atleast I wasn't ALWAYS playing at or near the same speed as my opponent any more.

Jaden

 

[BeiberLvr]

There is much more pressure on you when you get ahead and someone starts to come back on you than when you are right there with them and you have to play your best.

I have recently had trouble closing out. There were two relatively big tourneys I played in last year that I was up substantially and lost hill hill.

One was a barbox tourney at Jamaica Joe's for the money round where I was up 8-4 in a race to nine alternating break. There's NO ONE that I should lose to in that situation, EVER. I had three breaks in that situation and I BNR more often than 1 in 3 on a Barbox.

The other was two rounds deep in the money in the swannee memorial last year. I was playing perfect and was up 6-2 in a race to seven and lost 7-6.

It's all mental, but it's not as bad as I had been in the past. Atleast I wasn't ALWAYS playing at or near the same speed as my opponent any more.

Jaden

I had something similar happen recently, and it was a big eye opener for me.

Playing a race to 7. Ran a 3 pack, and was up 5-0. I ended up losing 7-6 that set. I found that every time I failed to get out, I was getting in my head.

Now I just flipped it, and will constantly say things to myself like

"You're going to win."
"You're better than this guy"
"He can't beat you"

None of those are statements of fact unless I do win, but it helps keep me focused on finishing the job.

When it comes to Shane, it really isn't fair to say he lacks killer instinct because of one match. Every player (not just Americans) have had trouble finishing at one point or another. How quickly some forget that Darren Appleton (the king of short race tournaments) blew a huge lead not so long ago in the finals of the World 9 Ball (with alternate breaks).

There are two main reasons Shane hasn't won a world title yet, and neither of which are lack of killer instinct.

1. Trouble getting used to being overseas.
2. The fields are extremely tough.

To give you an idea of how tough the fields are. Since 1990, only one player (Earl Strickland) has ever won back to back titles. Nobody besides Earl, has ever won more than 2, and only three players have won more than 1.

 

[maidenfreak]

Seems like someone is a little ass hurt that Shane beat the Canadian Kid....

Jaden :grin-square::grin-square::grin-square:

I agree....

 

[JD_Hogg]

In todays match between John Morra and SVB one thing stuck out to me in the so called "comeback" by Morra. SVB had him down 6-1 in a race to 11 and John was missing and under obvious pressure and instead of keeping the pressure on and drilling John 11-1 SVB let up and allowed Morra to get his feet under him, get some confidence, and it suddenly became a very close match tied at 8-8.

I once watched Wu Chia Ching play Morra in the World Junior 9-ball championships and I remember the match very well, it was very similar to the start of this match, Wu took a lead, Morra looked shaky and nervous, and Wu completely obliterated him, he NEVER let John in the match and simply took him apart.

This is a serious weakness not only in SVB but I see it in a lot of American players. They have no killer instinct, they get a huge lead and as often as not they let up and take it easy and give their opponents air. The Taiwanese do not EVER do this, if they can beat you bad they WILL beat you bad. It not only keeps the match safe and gives their opponent no chance to come back, it also sets seeds in that opponents head for the next match, the "remember that last time we played? Yeah that time you lost 11-1? Yeah, just wanted to make sure.".

If SVB does this in a world championships in international competition it is no wonder he loses. You cannot afford to get up 7-1 in a match against another world class player and let up as if you have already won, those guys will take any chance you give them and they can come back on you. When they get SVB down 7-1 do you think they are going to let "him" back up? No chance, they will finish him off as badly as they are able every time and not give him a chance if they can help it.

THIS is why a guy like SVB cannot win at that level, he is too used to letting off on the gas before he is at the finish line. You cannot go through actual pro matches showing a serious lack of drive to win every game and keep the pressure on and then turn that on when you get to Asia to play against the true killers, if you do not practice like that and play like that day in and day out you cannot "create" that killer instinct when you need it.

Seriously weak showing by SVB, win or lose he had a chance to keep this match from ever getting close at all, instead Morra goes to 10-9 and broke on the hill first (the match is still not quite over). I KNOW that a player that has Morra down like he was down and playing like he was playing only had to keep the pressure on and they walk to the finish line. Brutal, weak, that will not work against the top Taiwanese and Filipinos coming at you one after another who are all gunning to run out the whole set on you.

SVB won.... so really what does it matter how he got it done..