Are you sure they did not mean 2/3 of a ball or 3/4 of a ball on the break...
AKA ...66% and 75% of the time they make a ball on the break??
Hell....I consider it a good day if I only come up dry 1 out of 4 breaks....:wink:
Theory About The Break
- Thread starter 9 ball
- Start date
Are you sure they did not mean 2/3 of a ball or 3/4 of a ball on the break...
AKA ...66% and 75% of the time they make a ball on the break??
Hell....I consider it a good day if I only come up dry 1 out of 4 breaks....:wink:
Quote from Spliced
Evgeny stalev, Shane, and John Morra all have breaks I like. They all take a large, pausing backswing, then follow through hard and precise. Stalev exaggerates it the most but he his is also the most powerful imo. Take a look his break. You cant beat it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l2X4fW262M
he broke like he was going to the circus....WOW what a HUGE BREAK!.....that only made one ball and kinda controlled the cue....and he almost busted his arse LMFAO
Evgeny stalev, Shane, and John Morra all have breaks I like. They all take a large, pausing backswing, then follow through hard and precise. Stalev exaggerates it the most but he his is also the most powerful imo. Take a look his break. You cant beat it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9l2X4fW262M
he broke like he was going to the circus....WOW what a HUGE BREAK!.....that only made one ball and kinda controlled the cue....and he almost busted his arse LMFAO
Last edited:
Here's a thread with a video that you might find interesting.
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=43309&highlight=breaking+technique
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=43309&highlight=breaking+technique
I know where a few were going with that, and it wasn't the same direction as you my friend. Not all tables and racking are equal, at the local Rickochets (the rare occasion that i go) if I get a TIGHT RACK on the bar box playing 9 ball, I'll squat the rock and make a ball well over 60% now I won't say that I always drop 2's & 3's but would venture to say that i make 2 balls probably 30% and 3 maybe 10%....I've had nights there where you would swear that if I didn't make 2 then I made 3, and I had a handful of 4balls fall. But on any regular night up there I'm liable to throw up quite a few package runs, gimme a tight rack and I don't disappoint to drop a ball. But thats on that table I'd be lying if I said I could do that on my home table or most tables for that matter. I break great but I havent found a way to drop 2 and 3 at will yet on every table lol....I'd be the world champ if I did.
Now thats a 7" valley w/5" pockets and relatively no shelf. When I break my best and key into a table, something you mentioned comes up BIG TIME!
TIMING, and oddly enough if my thoughts are serving me correct I was probably breaking at around 70-75% which I would guess is about what a 90% effort for me would be if I only used my forearm.
I hear ya on the strength too, being a pneumatics tech I bend steel tubing alot, so I have really strong arms. I'm 5'7 145 and can max out a curl on the preacher bench from a resting position 135lbs, if I stand up and get that little cheat rock I can add another 25-30 to it. I'm stout for small fella, and thats where the timing comes in, along with some athleticism.
If your timing is right you don't even have to exaggerate as much as say Charlie or the goof who tried to jump on the table. If you can't be accurate then your pissing in the wind, if you can't hit it at the top of the bell curve as for timing then your still pissing in the wind.
I watched little john bust them all weekend a while back, they always spoke about his BIG break? His cue control was very weak (out of control) and I never remember seeing him make contact at the right time! His timing was a half beat off, and that probably helped him to lose the cue ball too.
Its just like when I bend that 3/4" tubing by hand, I do it nothing like when I bend 3/8", its got a break pressure to it. You have to snap it hard and smooth, VERY HARD AND SMOOTH. If you don't time yourself right with those hand benders on some big pipe like that it just going to shoot all your momentum to hell. Then you gotta do it again and keep jerking it to finish the bend.....it jars the hell out of you. By the end of the day the bigger stronger "greenhorns" are crying about how much their elbows hurt. I hit my peak power band right as the tubing wants to start to give and bend, then its downhill, you just finish you stroke (hey bending tubing is an art just like pool)
If the guy cant do it right I'm not going to make him use the hand benders, I'll give him a set of electric benders....I don't use em unless its a must, plus i don't have to work out much since my job can be a tremendous exercise.
The point is people should just approach things from their own unique level and range of abilities. If you can't get the timing down to properly execute a BIG break then just don't do it....
I've been an athlete all my life, I have good timing and sense of balance and power. If I want to go big I can control the cue much easier by using my body to take some of the load off, the harder I try and just swing the forearm the less accurate the delivery will be. Since I have good timing, balance and set up; I can take a little off the speed I deliver my arm and boost the cue power to my range of choosing. So I don't stress my stroke, and I position my body so that the shift does not interfere with the delivery of the stroke.
Everything goes off the back foot, it doesn't move its the strokes anchor so it stays straight. The front foot doesn't move either b/c the buck stops there. When you pull back, your weight shifts back and then back forward, upon contact with the cue the back foot lifts b/c of the straightening of the front knee.
When you see the guys like charlie and Johnny (and moi) power break we are adding another pendulum to the shot. But the pendulum is not part of the arm, the knees and hips work together to deliver the body in a pendulum along with the pendulum your stroke already has. Just like you want to hit the ball with the arm at 90 deg, you don't want to lift your back foot OR spring the front knee up until after the tip contacts the cue ball. Your weight is not really shifting that much prior to contact, it is the weight of the body and the speed of the shift that causes all the forward momentum i.e. Johnny archer.
Its just like Scott Lee and others teach in the SPF and completing the stroke, there are particular ways to develop that break and make it consistent to have in your bag when you need it. Just as you finish the stroke the bodys movement must finish in a particular way.
But these conversations are always for naught for everyone just wants to smash any way possible. That one video of the guy almost jumping on the table....he made 1 ball...people always debate the power break but rarely do they ever think about the fact that you can break TOO HARD, and it has nothing to do with accuracy.
Especially when playing 8 ball, you want the fullest expansion of the balls that you can attain (and make a ball) b/f the balls start to contract again and form clusters.
We do everything for a reason in this wonderful game, there are great reasons to develop or use the power break, but at the same time there can be reasons to not use it even if you can. If it just so happened that the balls were breaking perfect with the cut break then thats what I'm using that day...Hell if I have to break so hard as to lose control of whitey and really really blast, then I might just decide to break safe and leave the up coming player with a push on the one (can't do it in the tourneys with the 3 balls past the string tho lol)
To sum it up the power break can be very useful, but it is no better than any other break b/c none of them drop balls 100% of the time....so the shot choich lies upon what lies b/f you.
Merry christmas,
Grey Ghost
hdgis1
New member
I'm not sure what advantage there is to starting in the normal shot stance and then standing up from there. It might be just as accurate to start in the standing position, which would also eliminate the complicated coordination of all the moving parts during the standing-up motion.
pj
chgo
Last edited:
I am guessing that it only helps in alignment since that is his more normal head positon on normal shots....other than that....I am with you...
The other posters...that reference if the break can be related to golf or not...I think it very much can relate to specifically the Driver....
The key to long drives is not brute strength but more in proper "angles" if you create the proper angles you can create huge power that is usually untapped even in the strongest of players...I think it is exactly the same in the break shot for pool...
I am not here to say specifically what angles are the ones responsible for huge break power...but I do believe that at least some are prestented in this thread..
When swinging the arm and snapping the wrist, if you rotate the body at the same time you are increasing the speed your hand is moving, by the additional speed your body is rotating. It may not be a lot more speed and it may cause you to lose control, but it definitely increases speed.
Take martial arts or boxing for examples. The arms are fast with jabs, but the force is greater with the rotation of the body being added.
Is the lost accuracy worth it for the extra power? That is the real question.
Take martial arts or boxing for examples. The arms are fast with jabs, but the force is greater with the rotation of the body being added.
Is the lost accuracy worth it for the extra power? That is the real question.
Isn't that the technique demonstrated in this video by Colin
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=43309&highlight=breaking+technique
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=43309&highlight=breaking+technique
Im shocked, I actually agree with Scott Lee. LOL.
All sports use a hip turn in anything that requires power. Hockey, golf, baseball, football, soccer, boxing etc etc etc all use a hip turn. It generates power. Its controlling the power that is the key.
I disagree 100% with the bicept break.
It's funny how some instructors are fast to point out how it's not good to break like the pro's but does not mention the advantages of such. Clearly the Pro's who make a living at this game break the way they do because it is the effective way to go about it. Snooker players are the perfect examples of shooting the break with just arm motion and yet Ronnie O'Sullivan practiced throwing his body into the break during the IPT. Why? Because his break lacked power and he was not getting a good spread.
I'd be interested to see that, but the link to the video seems to be broken.
pj
chgo
Good points.
We amateurs are always told to "just" focus on a square hit (effective and right to teach in the beginning), but every pro (who breaks well) puts a lot of motion into the break.
I wonder if Shane got his break style from all the league bar table play. Usually there isn't room between the tables to use a Bustamante leg kick. You need a way to get power without a leg kick.
Jeff De Luna just might an instructor's worst nightmare lol. Here is a good video of him demonstrating how not to remain steady on the break lol http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yg2WAg9OZNY. I think part of it is theatrics as he likes to put on a show. There is no denying his power though.