This spot shot bullshit has got to stop

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
At the price of rooms today.....every couple hundred helps the sport/players/their nut/creates more people being able to come the next time.
I'd like to play in a big tournament one day but it would be an adventure. For the guys making a "living" the burden would be huge.
 

JolietJames

Boot Party Coordinator
Silver Member
I was at the AZ open last week and will say some of the spot shot tiebreakers were fun to watch.
We also had to compete against another team in a spot shot challenge of our own to determine seeding in the teams BCA state event.
It was fun imo but stressful for some.
 

Jedco

Member
I generally try to keep an open mind, but as my dad used to say "If your mind is too open your brains will fall out." 10-ball is supposed to be the rotation game where a lot of the variance is removed, yet they're deciding the ties based on something as arbitrary as spot shots? Why not play best two out of three sets? I'm not a tournament expert, but I'm certain there are plenty of better ideas than flipping coins. It would be less of a problem if the tiebreaker didn't come into play so often. I've watched 6 matches from the Arizona Open so far (in random order) and 5 of the matches ended in a tiebreaker. It really felt like a letdown to have the tiebreakers occur so frequently.
 

AtLarge

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
... It really felt like a letdown to have the tiebreakers occur so frequently.
Regarding the frequency of US Pro Billiard Series matches that end with a shootout:

• About 30% for all of last year's events combined (according to a commentator during the recent Arizona Open).​
• 50% (12 of 24) of the streamed matches in this year's Arizona Open.​
• 39% (46 of 117) of all the matches in this year's Arizona Open.​
 
I think it’s a terrible way to decide the winner. For example if player A won the first set 4-0 then lost the second set 3-4 they would have won 7 games to their opponents 4. Pool should be decided by playing whatever the game is. If they want to see players shoot spot shots just have a spot shot tournament.

I watch parts of the stream because I like pool but I wouldn’t pay to watch this. It’s also great that it puts money in player pockets but imo there is a better format than this. My opinion doesn’t count though. Maybe they wanted to do something different from what other tournaments do, but I’ve heard very few who like it.
Maybe, once they get that sorted, they could think of ways to improve the production problems too? Why do so many tournaments look like theyre happening at some hotel at 2 a.m? And i understand 'monetizing' the things, but do the players HAVE to wear doubleknit shirts from Nascar? And WHO are those two announcers that always (always) cover the events? They might make side money recording themselves and sell to insomniacs! 😃
 

tomatoshooter

Well-known member
I don't understand the point of having two sets if you aren't going to have a third. I don't see how a 30% chance of having a tiebreaker (that only superficially resembles the actual game) is preferable to one longer set. Play 3 sets to 3 instead of two sets to 4. I never really gave it much thought, but what is the point of having multiple sets? Tennis is the only other sport I can think of that has multiple sets. I guess it sounds cool or makes things seem more important.
 

skogstokig

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't understand the point of having two sets if you aren't going to have a third. I don't see how a 30% chance of having a tiebreaker (that only superficially resembles the actual game) is preferable to one longer set. Play 3 sets to 3 instead of two sets to 4. I never really gave it much thought, but what is the point of having multiple sets? Tennis is the only other sport I can think of that has multiple sets. I guess it sounds cool or makes things seem more important.

it's winner break so the set format is fair in that regard
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Everyone keeps complaining about the spot shots and why don't they just play a 3rd set...seems pretty obvious to me (tho I'm a nobody)

How do you decide who breaks the 3rd set? Getting the break is usually a major advantage. Sure seems obvious to me that they want the tiebreak to be equal for both players, where as the player that doesn't get the break is at a disadvantage.

Someone compared the spot shots to flipping coins...huh? At least the spot shots are using the players skill to determine the outcome. Obviously not their skill at the complete game, but a pool skill nonetheless.

I'm not here to champion the decision, but I understand the thought behind it.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
If you have ever played a spot shot shootout to decide rankings, seedings or who goes to the next round then you will understand just how intense (and fair) it is.

The "six reds shootout" has been used in some English Pool "turbo" tournaments over the last few years. It's basically a 6 ball variation of speed pool. It's good TV. Here's Mark Selby and Gareth Potts (it's an even more entertaining format for scotch doubles because it becomes even more technical):
 

Bigkat

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone keeps complaining about the spot shots and why don't they just play a 3rd set...seems pretty obvious to me (tho I'm a nobody)

How do you decide who breaks the 3rd set? Getting the break is usually a major advantage. Sure seems obvious to me that they want the tiebreak to be equal for both players, where as the player that doesn't get the break is at a disadvantage.

Someone compared the spot shots to flipping coins...huh? At least the spot shots are using the players skill to determine the outcome. Obviously not their skill at the complete game, but a pool skill nonetheless.

I'm not here to champion the decision, but I understand the thought behind it.
The spot shot is most certainly a pool skill.
 

Swighey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Everyone keeps complaining about the spot shots and why don't they just play a 3rd set...seems pretty obvious to me (tho I'm a nobody)

How do you decide who breaks the 3rd set? Getting the break is usually a major advantage. Sure seems obvious to me that they want the tiebreak to be equal for both players, where as the player that doesn't get the break is at a disadvantage.

Someone compared the spot shots to flipping coins...huh? At least the spot shots are using the players skill to determine the outcome. Obviously not their skill at the complete game, but a pool skill nonetheless.

I'm not here to champion the decision, but I understand the thought behind it.
On point. Whether a spot shot shootout, a speed pool shootout or a pattern shootout is used - any of these shootouts are fairer than the lag determining who gets the advantage at hill-hill. However, what I've just said falls apart in a winner breaks format.
 

Dead Money

AzB Gold Member
Gold Member
Silver Member
* The Pred 10 ball event does not use an ordinary spot shot either.. the 10 is placed on the spot it normally sits when the balls are racked.
 

straightline

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I prolly said this already but bfd.

The shoot out should extend into back cuts and head spot to middle foot diamond and then be moved into preliminary qualifying rounds as an entrance requirement. THEN_real_ pool can commence.
 
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