Those Two Undercover Monster players are real. I have photographic evidence!

[CJ Wiley]

If pool is ever to regain it's 100% they will have to play this way.

Thanks my friend, glad for your support. I'm not 100% yet, however there's parts of my game that are stronger than ever.......just difficult to compete with my old shot-making ability off the end rail.....again, there's much more of these shots playing 2 Shot Shoot Out (Push Out) rules. If pool is ever to regain it's 100% they will have to play this way.

I with there was more action, although there's a ton of really good players in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area. Just got home from a tournament at a place called Volcanos.....they have three tournaments that fill up (32 Players) nearly every week and also have $200 break and fun contests.

TR Davis beat me first round and I came back and managed to win in the end. Coy Lee and Joey Barns are two other formidable players from this area....and they have their hands full getting in the top 5.

CJ, if ur back in action glad to hear it! Im one of ur biggest fans. Not so much the " two foul" but none the less a huge fan. Snap them all off brother!!!!

 

[8ballEinstein]

That was the guy!!!

I love this type of story. When I was running around with Jimmy Reid and later Keith, we would always be asking "Where are the best players?" Our mouths would salivate when we heard about a guy who was beating everyone and betting pretty good.

I can remember sitting in poolrooms and bars all night just waiting for the local champ to show up, cause this was the guy everyone wanted to bet on. Only one guy every turned out to be the real deal. I'll never forget him. His name was Bobby Tippit I think and he played out of bar in Visalia, CA. We had been warned that he beat everyone who came through there, so naturally we beat a path to his door. He played Jimmy to a standstill for over eight hours, both of them putting together fours, fives and sixes over and over again. Every time it looked like Jimmy was going to put him away the guy would bounce back with five or six racks.

We had them stuck about 400 (total bet was around 50 or 60 a game with the side action), when Bobby did it again, running several nice racks. I told Jimmy that I had seen enough. I was afraid this guy might bust us, cause Jimmy would never quit. Jimmy reluctantly pulled up and we got out of there with some lunch money. I heard about Tippit several times after that, and it was always about some top player that he beat. In that one bar he was Godzilla!

P.S. Years later Bobby showed up at one of my U.S. Bar Table events in Reno. He was older but I remembered his name and sure enough it was the same guy. He still played good and finished in the money, but he wasn't a world beater anymore.

I was traveling through the Valley with "Two Dollar" Don when we got into a game in Visalia. Don was matched up witu someone and a nice fella came over to talk to me. He introduced himself as Bob and said he was called to play these "road players in town". Well, a shoulder injury stopped him from playing but he did tell me a few weeks prior Billy Graves from San Diego was in town and Bob had busted him. The next week Billy had brought up Swanee with him to Visalia. Bob said they played One-Pocket for $300 a game and in the end, broke even. Holy Makeral!!!

Had Bob been able to play Don or I, he would've filleted us. We dodged a bullet on that one! Funny thing is,you don't expect to find such strong talent in a small town like Visalia.

 

[smashmouth]

I see Walter White is still breaking bad.

Boro Nut

i was thinking Tom from LOST

 

[Poolshootindon]

Hummmm

Hello forum.

I am a long haul truck driver who plays pool with a hobby in photography.

When I am not steering my Peterbilt down America’s highways and byways, I’m steering my Sneakey Pete around the green felt in America’s bars and pool halls. Or I am taking pictures of God’s great America the Beautiful.

We live in a quite the country, not everyone appreciates how good or how beautiful it is, if we just look around a bit.

Anyhow, getting back to pool.

Truth be told, I am more of a barbox player than a big table player but I will hit balls on any table. Even snooker and 3-cushion.

I watch this forum religiously and want to thank the Lord above for the people who founded and formed Azbilliards. It has become the definitive internet stop for all cue sports related subjects and information.

Please pardon my long windedness. I am not much of an internet person as I don’t think I have much to share so I simply read the website and lurk and never post.
Until recently I didn’t even have an account.

But something has happened that I felt is post worthy so I figured I would finally get that account and make a post.

Those two undercover road agents mentioned in a post awhile back?

http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=365388

Those guys are for real.

I was witness to one of their takedowns in a bar in Oklahoma.

They travel with both a stake horse and a strong arm guy.

The players are both the nicest guys you could ever meet. Very polite. Professional. Even generous to a fault off the pool table. But make no bones about it. These guys are road agents of the highest caliber and they take the game very seriously. Why shouldn’t they? It’s their living.

I do think there undercover time is up. Things are starting to trickle out here and there about them and if what the other poster was taking about in the other thread is true it makes total sense for them to try and snap off Hard Times for the tournament and then all the action they can handle later.

Anyhow, getting back to Oklahoma.

I see thousands of people from thousands of locales and I can peg people to a fault. I pegged the New York guy and the Arizona guy. I know which is which. But the Arizona guy is the better player. They are both world beaters and I am sure when either of them is in the zone no one on God’s green earth can touch them.

But I think the retired gentleman who travels in his RV mixed them up.

I think the Arizona player is a bit better of a player.

Anyhow, they hit a bar in Oklahoma and took five grand off the owner. First the guy from New York took down one of the top players there for like $700 hundred playing $50 a rack Eight Ball. Got up 14 games and the guy paid off and quit.

I watched him put two six packs on the guy. It was over in like 45 minutes.

The action table is right by the bar, and when people match up. They rope off the table. So it’s just the two players and whoever is tending bar. The bar is in an L shape though so everybody else can still get served on the end. They simply rope it off so no knuckle head who doesn’t know what’s up will bump into the guys who are matched up.
Pretty smart little barbox gambling set-up.

Anyhow, I have never seen any bar table Eight ball like that guy from New York was
playing. He was playing crazy run out Eight Ball. Jumping over the edges of balls. Moving balls. Breaking up trouble balls. Full table length draw shots when jacked up over a ball.

The guy he beat was actually a decent player, I saw him hitting balls before these road agents came in. He was a B+ or A- player.
Funny point of interest.

When the B+/A- player is counting out the $700 he was pretty distraught and the guy from New York was actually really encouraging. Told him he could tell he could play and there was no reason with some serious practice that he could become a world beater.

Tells him 16 years ago he played his speed. B+/A- speed. Then says he finally decided to take the game seriously. Moved to New York City. Rented a shitty one room apartment but one that was 15 feet by 20 feet, so he could fit a tight nine foot Brunswick in there and he took a shitty job working nights and simply worked the night job 8 hours a night. Sleep eight hours, and spent the other eight hours playing pool. That was his day. He tells this guy he did that for 10 years straight. Never went out. Never gambled. Got his game perfect and then he quit his night job and hit the road.

Damn. That’s dedication. And self control. For a guy to do that. Hole up in a ratty apartment that is essentially one large room and hit balls every waking moment when not working the night shift.

Well, after he gets done with the B+/A- player the owner comes over and claims he has never seen anyone play that perfect pool.

Then the guy from New York says, “Well, you haven’t seen my buddy play. He’s better than me.”

And the New Yorker points to a guy who has been watching next to another guy who I pegged as their stake horse.

Well, the owner couldn’t believe it. Said he gladly take a huge spot to play for some large money if his friend wanted to step up.

After very little haggling the game was set at 15 ahead Nine Ball for five grand. With the bar owner getting the 3 out.

Now they must have had a line on the bar owner. Because while I was there, I didn’t see the owner play.

That set took like 45 minutes.

Bar owner wins the flip. Breaks and runs out the first rack.

Second break. Doesn’t make a ball.

But hooks the guy from Arizona.

Arizona steps up. Kicks at the one to make it and get shape on the two.

Runs out.

Then breaks and runs the next 15 racks to win.

Broke and run 15 racks.

16 racks total counting from the kick the one to get out.

Now, here is where it gets kinda interesting.

I had my camera with me. And I was sitting in the corner taking a few pics here and there and it is a Canon 7D so it does video.

I recorded a couple racks as video on the sly and thought I was going to get away with it. But on the last rack. This huge Russian comes in and stands off to the side of the table as Arizona runs the last rack to win.

I can tell something is up. He stands off to the side. Watches as the owner reluctantly pays off Arizona. Watches as they have a little casual conversation. Small talk.
Then the huge Russian walks up to Arizona and Arizona points me out.

Damn my heart was pounding.

The Russian walks over to me, and in the most polite husky Russian voice I have ever heard said. “I can take the memory off your hands and pay you for it. Or I can watch you erase it and reformat it right here, and you can keep the memory card.” He casually let his jacket open a bit and I saw a shoulder holster. Yup. He was packing. He wanted me to know it too.

I apologized. Said I simply was excited to see pool played at such a high level and I’m a long haul truck driver who plays pool and does photography as a hobby and I wanted to document the event.

He understood. He was very polite about it. Said “his guys” were camera shy and simply didn’t want their photo taken that’s all.

I formatted the card right then and there. He watched me do it. He thanked me and they were on their way out of there. Everybody’s jaw still on the floor.

But here’s the kicker.

I went out to get the camera from my truck while the guy from New York was matched up in that eight ball match intending to take some photos and video of that match. Ran back into the bar. Snapped a shot of New York. But my memory card was full. I had to run to my truck to change the memory card. Came back with another one. The one the Russian guy had me erase.

They didn’t know I had a shot on the other memory card in my truck.
I have a picture of the guy from New York. Here it is.

Now before everyone jumps on me about ruining action for this crew. This is an event that needs to be known. These guys are the best pool players walking the face of the earth. How can anyone fault me for taking their photo?

Plus, they are coming out of the shadows anyway as the other poster claimed in the other thread. The news already broke. I did nothing wrong for wanting to document what I was seeing.

Plus, these guys aren't hustlers. They are headhunters. They are honest about their speed and go at it that way. Truth be told, it's the right way in my opinion.

Anyhow, that is the information I wanted to share.

Keep up the good work Azbilliards.

You got my action whenever I can get online.

Bobby

Here is New York jumping the edge of a ball to run out.

Is his name LUCKY.

I get a magazine called "The Break" here in Portland. There is a person who writes an article about Lucky. Its good humor and uses some of the local players in some articles.

Maybe you should get in touch with him and write a few stories. I bet you two could come with some good stuff.

Run 30 racks with a broom stick, bring in a blind person who can run 10 racks by listening to the vibrations of the balls, you know the "believable" stuff.

Don :smile:

 

[jay helfert]

Yeah, we had a list of players we tracked down over the years. Bobby Leggs was another one that was tough to beat on his "home court".....so was Bobby Pickle, "Country Calvin," Reid Pierce, Jimmy Hodges, Jimmy Sanders, and Bryan Ashley.

Those were the days, one thing about this group is they would NOT QUIT until they were busted......this led to a lot of 20+ hour sets......paradise!!!

All these guys played "Two Shot Shoot Out" rules and I think that's a big reason why gambling has diminished......"One Foul" just isn't as strategic, therefore not as much fun to play against someone for 20 hours.....it gets boring after an hour or two.

That's pretty much a Murderer's Row of players you "tracked down." I would think Reed and Brian may have been the toughest to beat, although Calvin gambled real good too! That was back in your Efren chasing days , when you made the "world's greatest player" give up on you. See CJ, I know about all that sh't :wink:. My buddy Harry called me from Seattle after you beat Efren for a telephone book number!

 

[JB Cases]

They can come down to Ft. Worth and get played by several guys before they even have to play me......Texas is booming with pool playing right now, it's like the 80s again, except the "heart level" is not near as high as it used to be. They just had a tournament with over 40 people on the waiting list and many tournaments of 32 fills up on a weekly basis. Several of the break contests pay between 200 and 500 a ball.

I will testify to that. you can play every night of the week in Dallas Ft Worth.



Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[JB Cases]

the 10 years of practice alone part is novice story telling, in no sport anywhere can you get to world class status simply practicing alone shacked up somewhere (oh wait, old kung fu movies had that, lol)

again, the extreme immature nature and complete lack of logic within all the details (lies) to me suggests to me a teenager who perhaps picked up pool recently and found this forum or a nutbag like the dude claiming to have jack hines videos beating ronnie o

from a trolling standpoint, it's a much improved effort over the original thread, lol, but this troll has a long way yet to go minus the photo which as stated, is artsy and a nice touch

I would think that theoretically pool would be a sport that you could get to world class status in by yourself in such a situation.

what is the limitation? you have you and the balls and the table.

I don't see why a person could not discover and master every possible way to manipulate the balls even without any influence.

now if the person were to isolate themselves and supply themselves with books and videos to use then they could or should get there faster.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

 

[JB Cases]

I heard he has several stories published in the Penthouse Forum. Still needs work to get past the billiards forum though. The part about how the guy counted out the $700 after losing 14 racks of eight ball at $50 a game, does not work. In the scenario described that money would be paid out by the rack. That and the idea that a B+ or A- player would go off to the tune of $700 to a player putting together six packs does not pass the snort test either. Running 3 would kill that action.

that's not true. people play on the wire all the time. I play people 50 a rack all the time and don't pat off every rack. in fact a trick to get paid every rack is to lose the first one on purpose and pull the money out and pay. this establishes that its pay after each game without having to actually negotiate it. but you can negate that by telling the person wanting to pay that you will just mark it.

road players will often let people mark it instead of insisting on pay by the game because a mark will often go off for more if each game is a bead instead of money pulled from the pocket.

 

[Built_to_Last]

that's not true. people play on the wire all the time. I play people 50 a rack all the time and don't pat off every rack. in fact a trick to get paid every rack is to lose the first one on purpose and pull the money out and pay. this establishes that its pay after each game without having to actually negotiate it. but you can negate that by telling the person wanting to pay that you will just mark it.

road players will often let people mark it instead of insisting on pay by the game because a mark will often go off for more if each game is a bead instead of money pulled from the pocket.

Very true. And that is probably why the guy went off for $700. Paying by the game would have instilled the feeling of loss into every rack and he might have quit quicker.

I saw these guys on big tables. And they were unstoppable.

I fathom on bar tables, they would be unfathomable.

Do you think playing on the wire is more common in the barbox scene?

Big tables seem to be more "post first" but I don't hit too many small table joints. So my comparison analysis is very limited.

Built

 

[Built_to_Last]

I would think that theoretically pool would be a sport that you could get to world class status in by yourself in such a situation.

what is the limitation? you have you and the balls and the table.

I don't see why a person could not discover and master every possible way to manipulate the balls even without any influence.

now if the person were to isolate themselves and supply themselves with books and videos to use then they could or should get there faster.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

Agreed 100 percent there JB!

I see no reason to doubt what was overheard.

Built

 

[Built_to_Last]

A quick note to the original poster of this thread. Bobby, hope all is well and that you can check in at your next earliest opportunity.

At least let us know you are well.

Thanks.

Built

 

[pt109]

I would think that theoretically pool would be a sport that you could get to world class status in by yourself in such a situation.

what is the limitation? you have you and the balls and the table.

I don't see why a person could not discover and master every possible way to manipulate the balls even without any influence.

now if the person were to isolate themselves and supply themselves with books and videos to use then they could or should get there faster.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

I don't think a world class player can be developed in solitude.
Billiard games are war games.
How is one going to feel when you're sitting in your chair while the
other guy is laying a pack on you, or trying to put you on three fouls?

"Everybody has a plan, till you punch them in the mouth."
Tyson

 

[gregcantrall]

that's not true. people play on the wire all the time. I play people 50 a rack all the time and don't pat off every rack. in fact a trick to get paid every rack is to lose the first one on purpose and pull the money out and pay. this establishes that its pay after each game without having to actually negotiate it. but you can negate that by telling the person wanting to pay that you will just mark it.

road players will often let people mark it instead of insisting on pay by the game because a mark will often go off for more if each game is a bead instead of money pulled from the pocket.

The guy tells a good story. He needs to lay down the foundation for how they got to marking the games to make it a better story. More detail on the eight ball mark and how he could be maneuvered into going off to that tune would also help make the story better.

 

[POVPOOL]

These guys will steal at Hard Times and then magic 10 balls will come falling from the sky!

Hey, wait a minute!

 

[JB Cases]

I don't think a world class player can be developed in solitude.
Billiard games are war games.
How is one going to feel when you're sitting in your chair while the
other guy is laying a pack on you, or trying to put you on three fouls?

"Everybody has a plan, till you punch them in the mouth."
Tyson

That's why I said theoretically. Imagine though if the player felt nothing. What if he trained in solitude and didn't care at all what the other player was doing? What if, in solitude he trained himself to analyze the situation he was faced with when it's his shot and to pick the best shot and execute it perfectly?

We are just discussing hypotheticals here but what goes on in a person's mind is often under their control IF they have spent the time training themselves to be in control.

What's the difference between a give up stroke and bearing down? Attitude.

I once asked Rafael Martinez what he thinks when a player is running out against him. He said he is just waiting for a shot and thinking about how many racks he will run when he gets a shot.

 

[JB Cases]

The guy tells a good story. He needs to lay down the foundation for how they got to marking the games to make it a better story. More detail on the eight ball mark and how he could be maneuvered into going off to that tune would also help make the story better.

I agree that the story could have been better told. Was simply disagreeing about the protocol of paying by the game vs the wire as relates to road players vs. locals.

 

[Roger Long]

Rudolph Wanderone Jr. would have been envious.

 

[JB Cases]

Agreed 100 percent there JB!

I see no reason to doubt what was overheard.

Built

I see plenty of reason to doubt it. First of all no one that speed would stay unknown for long these days. If anyone took down a 5k score off a room owner giving up the three out in Oklahoma then everyone would know about it.

If a roadie took off a 7 speed in ok for 700 then the name and description would be out on FB the same day.

Russian tushhogs can't stop people from taking pics and posting them to FB.

 

[TheNewSharkster]

to me the story breaks down when he deleted the memory card.

- Bringing a gun into a bar is probably a felony offense.
- Why would he delete the card? I would tell the guy to kiss off. Make him show the gun. Very doubtful he would risk going away for life because of a memory card.

 

[Built_to_Last]

to me the story breaks down when he deleted the memory card.

- Bringing a gun into a bar is probably a felony offense.
- Why would he delete the card? I would tell the guy to kiss off. Make him show the gun. Very doubtful he would risk going away for life because of a memory card.

Last I heard Oklahoma was open carry. So I doubt carrying concealed is a felony. Most likely a parking ticket. Maybe a night or two in jail. Then they cut you lose after you pony up a fine of a grand or two.

But what serious road crew doesn't carry?

Sure it probably stays locked away. But the road can be a dangerous place. Especially if you hit bars.

Odds are you're carrying not to muscle people to pay up when they lose but to simply prevent someone from following you to your motel or hotel and then robbing you.

And who is to say there was any real steel in that shoulder holster.

But would you actually question someone in that situation?

No, you do the smart thing. Delete the memory card. Or hand it over.

I mean taking pictures and video without someone's consent is already really putting you in the wrong.

No offense to you, Bobby.

I'm glad you had the balls to shoot some pics and video.

Hope to hear from you soon too.

Built