Thought patterns ...

[ShootingArts]

I suspect that learning a mental process and a physical process involves different approaches. The physical process is probably more likely to have at least some underpinning of mental process while the mental process has the potential to be entirely mental, it may not have any physical underpinning at all.

I don't know that this has ever been tested but I would bet that pool players on a whole are more intelligent than the general population. Pool demands mental and physical performance. Nobody plays great pool purely based on physical abilities.

Hu

 

[straightline]

All I know is I can't make a ball when I am TRYING to make a ball.

Making shots and sequencing them is such a simple process can a trying process even exist? Any effort beyond doing the routine has got to be masochistic or some kind of psychological dysfunction.

 

[bbb]

I suspect that learning a mental process and a physical process involves different approaches. The physical process is probably more likely to have at least some underpinning of mental process while the mental process has the potential to be entirely mental, it may not have any physical underpinning at all.

I don't know that this has ever been tested but I would bet that pool players on a whole are more intelligent than the general population. Pool demands mental and physical performance. Nobody plays great pool purely based on physical abilities.

Hu

how much you want to bet???
if they were so smart...why do they all end up broke?
seriously Hu
your statement bolded small above goes with learning theory
you need conscious competence before unconcious competense

 

[sparkle84]

Idk if this helps, but the only thinking I do when I approach the table is to observe the lay of the balls and decide on how to run them. Then I drop and fire. The only time this process gets interrupted is if I blow shape or some other bizzare thing happens to change the initial plan.
I'm not thinking about it while shooting. I let my 'experience' move the cue, for want of a better word.
All that being said, that type of hyper focus becomes more difficult as time passes. No problem when younger.
Now I get headaches.
Makes it harder to stay in flow. Take what you can use and leave the rest.

This is an excellent post. It's pretty much what all good, experienced players do. As it relates to Doug, the OP, it's way more difficult because of lesser experience. He'll take more time to analyze and decide a course of action. Nothing wrong with that. During the course of the run he may need to make more frequent and maybe larger adjustments than you. Again, no problem there.

He can't avoid that but one thing that happens is more time elapses and that allows more doubt and overthinking to creep in. I'm not sure how he gets past this but I suspect speeding up his play, even if uncomfortable, may help. In practice and in competition.


One thing I advise beginner/intermediate players to do involves drills. I completely disagree with doing drills where you just make the same shot over and over again. Always include a position component.

You want to do the mighty x thing or some other long straight ins, fine, but keep it to a minimum.

I believe you must have a certain level of playing ability in order for any of this to sink in or be able to apply.
For those of you struggling with the concepts, you're overthinking things. Just relax and let this come to you. Play hard and have patience.
It cannot be forced. Square peg, round hole.

Another little gem for Doug to consider. Sometimes it's best just to say fk it and hit balls. Trust the subconscious. At first it may seem nothing's happening but that will change fairly quickly. What's the worst that can happen?

 

[sparkle84]

I suspect that learning a mental process and a physical process involves different approaches. The physical process is probably more likely to have at least some underpinning of mental process while the mental process has the potential to be entirely mental, it may not have any physical underpinning at all.

I don't know that this has ever been tested but I would bet that pool players on a whole are more intelligent than the general population. Pool demands mental and physical performance. Nobody plays great pool purely based on physical abilities.

Hu

Potentially, possibly but the physical may be necessary to give feedback that refines the mental to a higher level.

You may be right but I've run into a lot of guys with a high pool IQ but their intelligence drops considerably when you converse with them about anything other than pool.
With real high level players I tend to agree completely.

 

[ShootingArts]

how much you want to bet???
if they were so smart...why do they all end up broke?
seriously Hu
your statement bolded small above goes with learning theory
you need conscious competence before subconcious competense
View attachment 930540

That's theory, and fine as far as it goes. When your life is on the line you do things that you never knew how to do. No choice makes the unknown possible.

As for why smart people die broke, most that do are also slackers who have coasted through life. I have known a handful or two of geniuses. None were rich. A friend was a genius with over eighty patents. He was much poorer than I was which was saying something!

I have done the practically impossible many times in my life, and on the first try because there wasn't going to be a second try. When the choice is do or die, you do!

Hu

 

[ShootingArts]

Potentially, possibly but the physical may be necessary to give feedback that refines the mental to a higher level.

You may be right but I've run into a lot of guys with a high pool IQ but their intelligence drops considerably when you converse with them about anything other than pool.
With real high level players I tend to agree completely.

I don't believe intelligence can raise or lower other than through age and injury. While a person's intelligence might be focused one place or another or their education be different, that doesn't affect intelligence.

Two men were on a farm. A Phd officially running things, and a man with a second or third grade education. The Phd's book knowledge was vast. His knowledge of farming and livestock was half vast. If you wanted to know how to do something you went to the man with the second grade education and fifty years on a farm!

I talked to a friend a lot on a benchrest forum. I wrote conversational english as I do on here, seventh or eighth grade according to the rating systems. Don was very sharp in his niche but he wrote on a semi-literate level at best. I vastly respected his niche knowledge and abilities so I never teased him, far too much respect to do that!

I went to a big invitational meet. I was talking to a friend not too far from Don. He looked towards Don, "Did you know he is the head of a school at an Ivy League University?"

There is intelligence and there is what we do with it. Sometimes the two are a long ways apart!

Hu

 

[straightline]

Potentially, possibly but the physical may be necessary to give feedback that refines the mental to a higher level.

You may be right but I've run into a lot of guys with a high pool IQ but their intelligence drops considerably when you converse with them about anything other than pool.
With real high level players I tend to agree completely.

In fairness to potential heroes ( ) I gotta point out that hero level pool is not the safest pursuit and that full attention and all wits on board is raison de riguer. ( first use, had to google, acceptable ) This just about narrows down the conversational to, "How much you wanna play for?"

 

[ShootingArts]

In fairness to potential heroes ( ) I gotta point out that hero level pool is not the safest pursuit and that full attention and all wits on board is raison de riguer. ( first use, had to google, acceptable ) This just about narrows down the conversational to, "How much you wanna play for?"

Hero level pool was one of the cheaper things I did at hero level. Hero level pool was just taking a lower percentage shot than was wise. A hero move on the circle track was gonna get you in the newspaper, one way or another!

 

[VarmintKong]

 

[straightline]

Hero level pool was one of the cheaper things I did at hero level. Hero level pool was just taking a lower percentage shot than was wise. A hero move on the circle track was gonna get you in the newspaper, one way or another!

Ok I meant guys who won enough to get my attention - the bigguns. But since you brought up the math, how much of those LP shots are just unrehearsed and not ready for prime time?

 

[straightline]

Does the song start out saying Do do do do… or does it say Hu Hu Hu Hu?

I think they mean business.

 

[ShootingArts]

Ok I meant guys who won enough to get my attention - the bigguns. But since you brought up the math, how much of those LP shots are just unrehearsed and not ready for prime time?

The shots I am talking about are never ready for prime time. Either the angle is too thin or the bank is low percentage, no way to make it much higher.

My high run, banks in regulation play on a snooker table, was six balls. I had ran that several times and had I not moved away from snooker tables I was confident that six balls wasn't my limit. Moved away, other priorities, I never made a run higher than six. Still that wasn't a hero move.

Johnny Archer shot eight rails playing me. Granted it was on a bar table when we were both young with eyes of eagles. That was a hero move though, his best chance to regain control and I beat him eight or ten games straight afterwards, until we quit.

I was at my sister's. Her first born was on the far end of a couch and I was leaning in a doorway. The baby had just started rolling over a day or two before and my sister wasn't used to this. She started changing diapers and went to get a clean diaper from the clothes dryer.

The baby rolled over and fell, head falling towards a concrete floor. I launched from where I was leaning, spinning in midair so I hit the floor back first with the baby safely cradled on my chest. Even tucked my head a little so I didn't bash it on the concrete.

My sister was walking in the other door and saw me dive. "How in the world did you do that?"

"No Choice."

That is a real hero move. The baby's head wasn't much over a foot off the floor when I dove. If I tried the same thing a hundred times with a doll falling it is unlikely I would have ever caught it. With a baby involved there was no conscious thought. One action would work, it was what I did.

Hu

 

[mareh]

I think that in that milisecond you visualised the move and executed it to perfection.

 

[ShootingArts]

I think that in that milisecond you visualised the move and executed it to perfection.

Perhaps.

I think it was a matter of the unconscious mind sorting out what was needed and interacting directly with my body. There was no processing needed and I think none done.

The conscious mind is barely a thimbleful of processing in a small corner. It makes a lot of noise and is given a lot more credit that it deserves.

At the skeet range two shots, I think the final two, had you walk up to a station that was halfway between the low house and the high house. The low house was my bugaboo. I could run the rest of the range clean, that one station had my number!

An old range bum showed me how to shoot that shot. He could walk up until he was maybe eight or ten feet, maybe less, from the port the clay disk was flying out of. He still made the shot every time.

He would fold his knees and drop under the flight path. Seemed like he was adding a lot of motion but he never missed a bird. I tried, clays exploded. I never missed either of those center stages again.

I didn't add thought or try any of the things I believed might help. I quit fighting and let things happen and they happened.

After that I found getting out of my own way was often the solution to issues. Nothing is so complicated that we can't make it worse!

Hu

 

[Mensabum]

This is an excellent post. It's pretty much what all good, experienced players do. As it relates to Doug, the OP, it's way more difficult because of lesser experience. He'll take more time to analyze and decide a course of action. Nothing wrong with that. During the course of the run he may need to make more frequent and maybe larger adjustments than you. Again, no problem there.

He can't avoid that but one thing that happens is more time elapses and that allows more doubt and overthinking to creep in. I'm not sure how he gets past this but I suspect speeding up his play, even if uncomfortable, may help. In practice and in competition.


One thing I advise beginner/intermediate players to do involves drills. I completely disagree with doing drills where you just make the same shot over and over again. Always include a position component.

You want to do the mighty x thing or some other long straight ins, fine, but keep it to a minimum.



Another little gem for Doug to consider. Sometimes it's best just to say fk it and hit balls. Trust the subconscious. At first it may seem nothing's happening but that will change fairly quickly. What's the worst that can happen?

 

[Mensabum]

I don't believe intelligence can raise or lower other than through age and injury. While a person's intelligence might be focused one place or another or their education be different, that doesn't affect intelligence.

Two men were on a farm. A Phd officially running things, and a man with a second or third grade education. The Phd's book knowledge was vast. His knowledge of farming and livestock was half vast. If you wanted to know how to do something you went to the man with the second grade education and fifty years on a farm!

I talked to a friend a lot on a benchrest forum. I wrote conversational english as I do on here, seventh or eighth grade according to the rating systems. Don was very sharp in his niche but he wrote on a semi-literate level at best. I vastly respected his niche knowledge and abilities so I never teased him, far too much respect to do that!

I went to a big invitational meet. I was talking to a friend not too far from Don. He looked towards Don, "Did you know he is the head of a school at an Ivy League University?"

There is intelligence and there is what we do with it. Sometimes the two are a long ways apart!

Hu

Miles and miles!!

 

[Mensabum]

I think they mean business.

And here I thot they was British.

 

[Mensabum]

The shots I am talking about are never ready for prime time. Either the angle is too thin or the bank is low percentage, no way to make it much higher.

My high run, banks in regulation play on a snooker table, was six balls. I had ran that several times and had I not moved away from snooker tables I was confident that six balls wasn't my limit. Moved away, other priorities, I never made a run higher than six. Still that wasn't a hero move.

Johnny Archer shot eight rails playing me. Granted it was on a bar table when we were both young with eyes of eagles. That was a hero move though, his best chance to regain control and I beat him eight or ten games straight afterwards, until we quit.

I was at my sister's. Her first born was on the far end of a couch and I was leaning in a doorway. The baby had just started rolling over a day or two before and my sister wasn't used to this. She started changing diapers and went to get a clean diaper from the clothes dryer.

The baby rolled over and fell, head falling towards a concrete floor. I launched from where I was leaning, spinning in midair so I hit the floor back first with the baby safely cradled on my chest. Even tucked my head a little so I didn't bash it on the concrete.

My sister was walking in the other door and saw me dive. "How in the world did you do that?"

"No Choice."

That is a real hero move. The baby's head wasn't much over a foot off the floor when I dove. If I tried the same thing a hundred times with a doll falling it is unlikely I would have ever caught it. With a baby involved there was no conscious thought. One action would work, it was what I did.

Hu

Nice catch Hu!!
Now y'all know what's wrong w me. I wasn't caught.

 

[Mensabum]

Perhaps.

I think it was a matter of the unconscious mind sorting out what was needed and interacting directly with my body. There was no processing needed and I think none done.

The conscious mind is barely a thimbleful of processing in a small corner. It makes a lot of noise and is given a lot more credit that it deserves.

At the skeet range two shots, I think the final two, had you walk up to a station that was halfway between the low house and the high house. The low house was my bugaboo. I could run the rest of the range clean, that one station had my number!

An old range bum showed me how to shoot that shot. He could walk up until he was maybe eight or ten feet, maybe less, from the port the clay disk was flying out of. He still made the shot every time.

He would fold his knees and drop under the flight path. Seemed like he was adding a lot of motion but he never missed a bird. I tried, clays exploded. I never missed either of those center stages again.

I didn't add thought or try any of the things I believed might help. I quit fighting and let things happen and they happened.

After that I found getting out of my own way was often the solution to issues. Nothing is so complicated that we can't make it worse!

Hu

It's much harder to do than most players think.