Threading tennons at Tournament.

A think a thin coat of Wax definately is a great lubricant. Also once the die is ran across the tenon, the wax is gone. I have done this method for 10 years, and have never had any failures using this method. Typically the tenons that twist off, or are broken, are Cuetec cues (Or Similar) with broken ferrules already. It will typically split the tenon also :) Just my .02 cents on the Post.
 
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If think wax will affect adhesion, use boiled linseed oil then.
After using, squirt some thinner or denatured alcohol or mineral spirits on the tenon.
A little brushing , wiping and let dry, glue the ferrule in.
Btw, which would have more gluing surface, threaded ferrule or press fit ones?
 
No amount of logic will convince some people. They insist on believing there is something mysterious and magical about certain aspects of construction.
A little like religion and politics, logic and history doesn't really count for much.
 
RocketQ said:
Is any one threading tennons at tournaments? I don't like to replace ferrules without them being threaded. Curious if any one is using a mini lathe 7x10 to thread tennons? Is the machine accurate enough to do this process?
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The trick is not to use just one die. I have three I made up in three different sizes. A starter one, an intermediate one and a finish one. It lets me work with a tenon cut at around .305 for a full thread that looks like any metal screw thread. It doesn't have the chipped up wood look. It just takes a few minutes to make a perfect threaded tenon. These are easy to make up for anyone with a lathe. You just need some one inch aluminum rod.
 
Sheldon said:
No amount of logic will convince some people. They insist on believing there is something mysterious and magical about certain aspects of construction.
A little like religion and politics, logic and history doesn't really count for much.
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In this particular case, I believe, that the logical answer, is apparently, the wrong answer. I don't thread my ferrules. Never have as I've never had any problems with them coming loose with the way that I install them. I have read numerous times though that the people using these tenon threaders use wax as a lubricant. Now LOGICALLY a person would assume that this is a bad practice as glue or finish and wax don't mix well. When gluing something, wax is used on the perimeter so that things you don't want stuck won't get stuck.

Now, as I said, I don't thread my ferrules so I have no experience if the application of wax has any affect in the ferrules adhesion or not. It just didn't sound logical to me so that's why the question was asked. Now everyone who uses this technique says that they have no trouble as far as the wax go's. Experience wins over logic. That is the reason questions are asked so that someone with experience can respond with a correct answer. After all, logically, you wouldn't believe a bumble bee could get off the ground.

Dick
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
I read & reread ALL of the posts. Cuemaker after cuemaker anguishes over the thought of a glue failure at the "A" joint or the ferrule & we take every possible precaution to protect against a "buzz" warpage or any glue failure. Yet, I can't understand how you can rationalize the fact, that you use glue over a waxy surface at the ferrule. Probably everyone at sometime has looked at the instructions on a glue or paint container. One of the 1st things that it says, is that the surfaces should be free of water, oil, wax etc. I'm not triing to make light of this. I'm mearly puzzeled about something that I though was a basic in gluing. Wax & glue just don't seem to me to mix. Even a little...JER
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Once the tenon threader cuts the threads there is no discernable wax in the cut away part and only a tiny amount on top of the thread. As stated earlier you can clean it off with laquer thinner if worried aobut it. That is why Sheldon asked if you read what I posted as I gave the reason it is not much of an issue ansd how to remove it if you feel it is an issue. Did you realize almost all steel pins have oil or coolant on them when made. Do you clean them off or not worry about it? Same thing with wood tenons and same two solutions: Clean it off or don't worry about it. I bet many people have installed pins and inserts without worrying about residue with no problems. And I bet others clean them, because they are not taking any chances.
 
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rhncue said:
In this particular case, I believe, that the logical answer, is apparently, the wrong answer. I don't thread my ferrules. Never have as I've never had any problems with them coming loose with the way that I install them. I have read numerous times though that the people using these tenon threaders use wax as a lubricant. Now LOGICALLY a person would assume that this is a bad practice as glue or finish and wax don't mix well. When gluing something, wax is used on the perimeter so that things you don't want stuck won't get stuck.

Now, as I said, I don't thread my ferrules so I have no experience if the application of wax has any affect in the ferrules adhesion or not. It just didn't sound logical to me so that's why the question was asked. Now everyone who uses this technique says that they have no trouble as far as the wax go's. Experience wins over logic. That is the reason questions are asked so that someone with experience can respond with a correct answer. After all, logically, you wouldn't believe a bumble bee could get off the ground.
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If you ignore the details, you are correct. Waxing something you are wanting to glue is not a good idea. HOWEVER, we are not talking generalities in this instance. We are talking about ferrules, and using wax as a lubricant BEFORE cutting threads.
If we focus only on general concepts, one could argue that not threading a tenon is ridiculous, because threading them allows you to mechanically attach the ferrule, instead of relying on glue and friction alone.
We both know that this is not true, from experience. Arguing that you would never put an A joint together that way doesn't really make sense either, now does it?
 
We shouldn't use cocobolo or BDR too.
They are oily you know. :)
Arguing that you would never put an A joint together that way doesn't really make sense either, now does it?
You mean you don't press fit your A-joint? :)
 
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cueman said:
Once the tenon threader cuts the threads there is no discernable wax in the cut away part and only a tiny amount on top of the thread. As stated earlier you can clean it off with laquer thinner if worried aobut it. That is why Sheldon asked if you read what I posted as I gave the reason it is not much of an issue ansd how to remove it if you feel it is an issue. Did you realize almost all steel pins have oil or coolant on them when made. Do you clean them off or not worry about it? Same thing with wood tenons and same two solutions: Clean it off or don't worry about it. I bet many people have installed pins and inserts without worrying about residue with no problems. And I bet others clean them, because they are not taking any chances.
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Hi Chris, as to your question, I dip ALL of my threaded pins, in lacquer thinner & then use string to clean the helix of the thread & then another one to dry the threads. I also don't use threaded ferrules, except for repairs, on Qs that already have them. I hope my posts here are always taken as a question, on somethng I'm not sure of. Instead of a smart ass rebuttal. That's not my intent. Sheldon, You & the others, who use the wax have convinced me of it's ineffect, on the glue. Now, I only have one question...Is it past wax or auto wax or liquid wax? I want to try it...THANKS...JER
 
Beeswax is what I use. I just touch a lump of it to the tenon as it spins, right before slamming the die on there. :D
For cleaning A-joint threads, I use a wire wheel. I imagine the slight roughening it imparts may help the glue bond to it.
Some cuemakers don't use a tenon at the A joint, I know of one that advocates a flat-faced A joint.
Think about a break-jump cue. The second joint is usually right where the A-joint would be, no tenon, no glue. And somehow they still work.
 
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Some cuemakers don't use a tenon at the A joint, I know of one that advocates a flat-faced A joint.


:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
I know one who uses biscuit joint.
:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:
Arnot has a great one in his fiberglass stud I think.
 
Sheldon said:
Some cuemakers don't use a tenon at the A joint, I know of one that advocates a flat-faced A joint.
Think about a break-jump cue. The second joint is usually right where the A-joint would be, no tenon, no glue. And somehow they still work.
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Yeah, they work but they're also MEANT to be taken apart. The reason that they work is because the biggest load they ever see is a straight ahead compression of the two flat faces. However, it's still not a very strong connection.

The cuemaker that you know who advocates a flat-faced 'A' jnt., did he state why he prefers it ? I'd be interested in his reasoning.

IMO, the 'A' jnt. should be designed & constructed so as to mimic a solid single piece of wood.

I'll continue doweling my 'A' jnt. until I can find something stronger. Right now, that would be full-splice.

Sorry to stray from the ferrule tenon discussion but the door was opened.
 
JoeyInCali said:
I know one who uses biscuit joint.
Arnot has a great one in his fiberglass stud I think.
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Check this one out. :D It was a real easy fix though....
 

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I have a good friend that threads the tenon at the A joint, as well as putting a piece of allthread in. I don't think I've come across a stronger joint than his.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Aaah, finger joint.
Joss, Viking and Mali use 'em.
That's an abused Joss obviously.
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I could be wrong but I believe Joss started doing this back around 94 when they came out with their line of Sneaky Pete's with the inlaid points. I believe they were having them made overseas. I believe what they did was take a wide board of Maple and a wide board of the handle material (Cocobolo, Macassar ebony, Bocota or Gabon) and finger jointed them together. They then were sawed into 1.375 width strips and then turned.

Dick
 
Wax before using compression die...

I thought that when using wax to thread with a compression die, when you are finished with the die, you use denatured alcohol to get rid of any remaining wax. I have never had any trouble with glue failure when cleaning this way before epoxying the ferrule on.
 
BLACKHEARTCUES said:
Hi Chris, as to your question, I dip ALL of my threaded pins, in lacquer thinner & then use string to clean the helix of the thread & then another one to dry the threads. I also don't use threaded ferrules, except for repairs, on Qs that already have them. I hope my posts here are always taken as a question, on somethng I'm not sure of. Instead of a smart ass rebuttal. That's not my intent. Sheldon, You & the others, who use the wax have convinced me of it's ineffect, on the glue. Now, I only have one question...Is it past wax or auto wax or liquid wax? I want to try it...THANKS...JER
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I just use a very small amount of regular hard paste cue wax. I did them dry for years because I had the same concerns you have. But after twisting off several tenons and my customers telling me the wax does not hurt the bonding, I finally tried it and was impressed with how much easier it threaded. I would afterwards wipe the tenon off with laquer thinner, but eventually quit bothering and have not had any failures.
 
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