Wow, the "I know people who would kick your ass for doing that" reply. I expected more from you, Jude. I suggest you print out a rule book for your thug friends.
three foul technicality
- Thread starter enzo
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Wow, the "I know people who would kick your ass for doing that" reply. I expected more from you, Jude. I suggest you print out a rule book for your thug friends.
The only time I can agree with you on this is if there's a huge time gap between the second and third fouls. That's really why the rule is in place - it's to protect the incoming player from getting out of the chair after 5 or 10 minutes and forgetting he's on two fouls. Assuming this is a quick exchange where one player fouls, the next player informs him he's on two and then proceeds to lay down another safety, I would say the player has done his job to inform him. Now, you're right - the rules in some organizations say otherwise but I'm saying that if he has one ounce of integrity, he would never pull that stunt.
Cue, I've been playing in poolrooms for more than 20 years. I'm sorry but I didn't learn the rules from a league book. I learned them from gambling. You followed the rules (be it by the letter or in spirit) so that you could avoid getting your butt kicked.
BTW, I never said they were friends so please do not call my friends thugs.
I apologize and stand corrected: Thug acquaintances.
Then what would happen when you go into another pool room where they play by different rules. Would you freak out and say "I'm used to playing THIS way!"?
Without a doubt and I'm very certain even the TD would look at the guy like he was out of his mind.
Cue, I consider myself a stand-up player. I can't say I've always been this way but throughout most of my playing days, I've tried to be. I think anyone who has played me in the past 10 years (at least) can attest to this. I abide by the rules, do my best to protect myself from the rules' pitfalls and allow a bit of grace for my opponents. I expect the same in return. At times, I'll even demand it. There are plenty of scenarios in the rules that allow for reverse calls. Of course, the situation will dictate its importance but I can assure you, when the call is appropriate, I've abided by it.
In this scenario, there is a 99.9% chance I'll inform my opponent he is on two fouls just prior to his return to the table. In the rare instance that I might tell him before, it would be in a scenario where I expect to be at the table briefly and I'll await acknowledgement before proceeding. If this is insufficient notice for him and it becomes a situation where a referee is needed, yes I will call him out on it. I'll argue my case loud and clear and by the end of it, everyone in the poolroom will be aware of what happened. I'll continue play but be rest assured, he might want to call a referee over for any other situation where a reverse call can be made.
I wish you'd write to the rules authorities about this. I have a feeling you'd be able to make a better argument than I would. I agree the rule is stupid, but I don't write them, I just play by them. Rest assured, I will ALWAYS warn my opponent at the correct time now that I know about the rule change. I don't like it, but that's what I'm stuck with.
Let me ask you this: Imagine if someone completely failed to warn you that you're on 2. Then you fouled a 3rd time and they said that's game. Is there a scenario where you would you accept the loss because you knew you were on 2 fouls even though they didn't warn you?
That's a good question and I can see where you're going with this. Yes, I think it's required that I'm informed of my situation if my opponent intends to try to win the game via major foul (or however it might be worded).
This rule that we're referring to is really something that's more applicable to straight pool. In 14.1, it's very common for both players to be on two fouls and one of the players suddenly goes on a run. It could be racks before the other player shoots again and it's perfectly reasonable to assume he's forgotten about his foul situation. In that instance, the incoming player has to be informed otherwise it doesn't count. However, if there's a quick exchange of back-scratches, most experienced straight pool players will not bring up semantics on when they were informed. It's annoying and stupid. It's like verbally calling each shot.
There are aspects of the game where you're expected to be civilized. If you have a problem with this, don't be surprised if people are suddenly unciviled towards you. Before, after, who cares? It's your match. You have say over how it's going to get played out. Would you call someone out for informing you at the wrong moment in time even though your next turn was only 5 seconds later?
But what if you're both well aware that you're on two fouls. Verbalizing the warning is just a technicality isn't it?
IMO, once the player has been warned, it should be his responsibility to remember. However, I do agree with extending him the courtesy to warn him again if I have reason to believe he may have forgotten.
I guess my whole point is, what is the point of rules if people aren't going to follow them?
I think what I'm going to do is this: If I'm at a tournament where I think they might be playing by the new rule, I will get clarification from the TD if we have to warn the person using the new convention. If so, and if someone warns me early, I will tell them, "hey I'm not sure if you knew this but the rule has changed, so while I appreciate the early warning, you have to warn me again after your shot. I don't like it, but that's how it is." Or something like that.
Or if he wants to make an agreement with me that we can both use the old convention, then I'm fine with that too.
It's not a technicality since you haven't established that he knows he's on two fouls.
"You're on two"
"Yes"
This exchange needs to take place at some point otherwise you're out of luck.
The spirit of the rule is that the player is aware he is on two fouls prior to shooting. The more time that has lapsed between innings, the more of an argument he has for utilizing this rule. If it's been five minutes since he was last at the table (not uncommon), he has every right to say he was not properly informed and I would agree with him whole-heartedly. My issue is when it's only been a matter of seconds.
This is very much like the way I handle the no-concessions rule. If a player is about to concede the 9, I will ask him to allow me to finish off the game. Afterwards, I'll say something like, "I appreciate the courtesy but to avoid controversey, let's just shoot through." I do this to avoid any problems. I think your approach handles this issue perfectly.
3 foul.......
Ok, this will go in my book as the Cuebacca/ Rosenstock Syndrome.
Seriously, just run out after the first foul, end of game. Opponent starts on no fouls again.:thumbup:
Ok, this will go in my book as the Cuebacca/ Rosenstock Syndrome.
Seriously, just run out after the first foul, end of game. Opponent starts on no fouls again.:thumbup:
Ok, this will go in my book as the Cuebacca/ Rosenstock Syndrome.
Seriously, just run out after the first foul, end of game. Opponent starts on no fouls again.:thumbup:
BTW, you're on two.
Wait a second, it's not my turn yet lol.
What if he fails to warn you but you knew? Would you concede? What if you fail to warn him, but he's willing to admit that he knew he was on two. Should he concede?
Under the old rules, I would disagree. Once he is warned, he is warned, and it's his responsibility to remember. If he knows that he's a forgetful person, he is free to embrace whatever technique necessary to remember, such as taping a note to his shaft that says "I'm on two".
That said, if I have reason to believe he might forget, I'd probably remind him, but if I forget to remind him a second time, ultimately it was his fault.Thanks, yeah I think that's better for everyone involved. I still don't like the new rule though.
Ok, this will go in my book as the Cuebacca/ Rosenstock Syndrome.
Seriously, just run out after the first foul, end of game. Opponent starts on no fouls again.:thumbup:
LOL, OK, I can take the hint... :deadhorse:
Wait a second, it's not my turn yet lol.
I'm just gonna say it every time I miss or play safe.
You're on two, too.