Double-Dave said:
I think it's important to note that the system as described in the first post in the referenced thread is unlikely to work on new cloth and the exact distance of the distant object has to be correct or the system has no chance of working well.Gregg said:Does someone have that diagram that showed how to kick three rails, using the second diamond and a fixed object in the room as a reference where to aim the cue on on first rail? I seem to have lost mine, and forget how to do it.
Thanks in advance!
1. Can someone explain how that system in the table diagram in the first post of the original thread would result in a succesful hit if everything remained the same except for the cue ball being moved much further to the right e.g. let's say 6 inches behind the baulk line? Maybe I'm being very dumb but I just can't see it working under those circumstances.
Bob Jewett said:The system begins a lot like a system called the "Opposite 3" which is described in Byrne's "Wonderful World of Billiards" book, except that system uses running english. The idea there is that if you hit opposite "3" on the long rail (your system goes "through" 2) the cue ball will land on the third rail exactly across from your starting location. The interesting extension in your system is the spot on the wall to allow other cue ball origins.
I tried your system today. The reference point on my table is not diamond 2. Instead it is a point about 4 inches off the table pretty much along the 2-2 line that you illustrated. A good test shot is to shoot from the side pocket and try to go to the opposite side pocket. On my table, diamond 2 has no chance to work for this.
Also, if the cue ball starts from the end rail, it always ends up too long, so some additional correction is needed.
In all, the system is much more accurate than I expected. Most 3-rail systems use running english allegedly for consistency, but this seems to be about as accurate as the normal corner-5 system if you have figured out the adjustments.
On most pool tables, the "opposite 3" system reference point is on the cloth between the second and third diamonds. On a carom table, the nominal reference point is the rail groove at diamond 3. The pool table case and some other diamond systems are described in the BD article at http://www.sfbilliards.com/articles/1999-12.pdf
Patrick Johnson said:It doesn't work. There is a "spot on the wall" system that shows "geometric" multi-rail tracks, but that isn't it. Even the correct one isn't completely accurate - it takes some knowledge of its shortcomings to make it useful. I don't think the one shown in the earlier thread is correct or useful.
pj
chgo
The spot on the wall system mentioned earlier can be studied in the same way as the opposite-3 as also mentioned earlier. In general, you will arrive at a distant spot for each particular target. The claim of the system referenced in this thread -- as I understand it -- is that a single point on the table can give a lot of distant points that cover all usual 3-cushion kicks (side-end-side). If that were true, it would be quite useful, especially if I could arrange to have walls at the right distances from the table with suitable murals on them. The problem, as mentioned earlier, is figuring out the required adjustments.memikey said:Got to admit to being a general sceptic about the value of kicking systems against my personal preference of 'instinctive feel' but have always been a fan of each player following their own preference and/or whatever works for them. This system has come up in various conversations I've had in person with other players and have never yet got all the answers I've wanted so will take this opportunity of picking the brains of AZb'ers
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Patrick Johnson said:It doesn't work. There is a "spot on the wall" system that shows "geometric" multi-rail tracks, but that isn't it. Even the correct one isn't completely accurate - it takes some knowledge of its shortcomings to make it useful. I don't think the one shown in the earlier thread is correct or useful.
pj
chgo
I've set this up during league night on a 9'er for a shooter, and he made the eight ball for a hill/hill match win.
Patrick Johnson said:What shot did you set up and how did you aim and hit it?
pj
chgo
Gregg said:......... I've set this up during league night on a 9'er for a shooter, and he made the eight ball for a hill/hill match win.
This is the "opposite 3" system that was described by Bob Byrne in his "Wonderful World of Pool and Billiards" book. That's the system I describe how to calibrate in one of my articles. Just going with the simple rule will get you within 6 inches of your target, probably on most tables. If you want more accuracy than that, you need to test and adjust. According to the system as described by Byrne, you don't aim at the third diamond; you aim to land the cue ball even with the third diamond. ("Even with the diamond" is also called "opposite" the diamond, hence the name of the system.)klockdoc said:PJ or Bob,
what is this system whereas you shoot through the 3rd diamond and the cue ball will travel to the other side of the spot the same distance that it is from the spot when you shoot it? See diagram. Hope this makes sense.
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Bob Jewett said:This is the "opposite 3" system that was described by Bob Byrne in his "Wonderful World of Pool and Billiards" book. That's the system I describe how to calibrate in one of my articles. Just going with the simple rule will get you within 6 inches of your target, probably on most tables. If you want more accuracy than that, you need to test and adjust. According to the system as described by Byrne, you don't aim at the third diamond; you aim to land the cue ball even with the third diamond. ("Even with the diamond" is also called "opposite" the diamond, hence the name of the system.)
A problem with a lot of systems is that they might seem to work on one day under one set of conditions for the right shot, but they don't come all that close in general. The corner-5 system changes a lot over the first week of a new cloth, and corrections must be applied to make it accurate to half a ball at the fourth cushion on all tables, but most people seem to ignore those details. Some blame their strokes when it is the system (or their lack of full understanding of the system) that is at fault.