Three Rails Around Question

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I've seen a couple of videos lately that says if I hit the shot in this first picture with running english (top right) it will come around and pocket the 8B as shown in this first picture. That's basically hitting the middle diamond on the long rail.

However, on my table, I have to hit at least the last diamond - and perhaps halfway between the last diamond and the corner pocket - to get it to come around three rails to pocket the 8B as shown in this pic.


Is this normal? Does it vary that much from table to table?

r/DCP
 
This simply tells me you table doesn't play to the system.

No table on earth plays Absolutely EXACTLY to any system.

Most pool tables I've ever played on don't comply to the corner 5 system. They're a basically 1 diamond short.
Meaning. the Corner 5 System says the 2nd diamond on the 3rd rail connects to the corner. On a pool table the 3rd diamond connects to the corner. Usually. Depends on the table.

What you have to do is see how your table plays vs the "system" and make the adjustments.
Your table is wildly wrong vs the corner 5 system or even a typical pool table.

You need to get someone who knows what to do to correct your table.

It could possibly be tons of chalk on your bed cloth and a CB that's filthy dirty plus worn out/undersized.

A CB that's half millimeter undersized needs to be replaced IMO if you're looking for any system to work with book diagrams.
 
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Your table plays pretty short it looks like. But I’d fool around with the speed and spin. If you are hitting it too hard with to little spin etc…. But it looks like a really short table.
 
Thats about normal , especially Brunswick 1 2 and 3s . I have no experience with Brunswick tables made after that. Diamond tables usually only play 1/2 diamond short.
 
So, that's the Corner-5 system. You can watch videos about it. The standard track is with the cue over the corner pocket (5) and aiming at the 3rd diamond on the opposite long rail. The Corner-5 system says that the difference: 5-3=2 is where the cue ball will hit the other long rail, then the cue ball will continue on and scratch in the corner pocket. The system says the resulting difference is important: any starting cue position along with an aim point on the first rail that differs by 2 will also scratch in the corner pocket (for on system tables), e.g. cueing over 4.5 and aiming at 2.5 on the first rail.

I played on a Olhausen table that was "on system", and the 5->3 track would scratch in the corner pocket. However, an (oval) blue label 9' Diamond is not "on system". To scratch, I have to cue over the corner pocket (5) and aim at 2.2 (depending on the weather). And, with the Diamond table the difference: 5 - 2.2 = 2.8 has no significance for other shots, for instance stroking the cue over 4.5 requires hitting the 1.2 diamond on the first rail in order to scratch in the corner pocket, but 4.5 - 1.2 = 3.3 , which does not equal 5 - 2.2 = 2.8.

Jennifer Baretta ads spot-on-the-wall to the Corner-5 system so that she doesn't have to do any calculating:


Does it vary that much from table to table?
Click to expand...

Your table plays pretty short (so you had to adjust longer). What type of table did you try the Corner-5 system on?
 
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I can hit that shot with about 1.5 diamonds variance pretty easily, depending on speed and english. I'm guessing that you are hitting too hard with full running, maybe a bit of draw. The shot is for medium speed and medium running.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
I've seen a couple of videos lately that says if I hit the shot in this first picture with running english (top right) it will come around and pocket the 8B as shown in this first picture. That's basically hitting the middle diamond on the long rail.

However, on my table, I have to hit at least the last diamond - and perhaps halfway between the last diamond and the corner pocket - to get it to come around three rails to pocket the 8B as shown in this pic.


Is this normal? Does it vary that much from table to table?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
My modified GCI with Artemis Intercontinental K66 cushions plays like the first example. I have found most red label Diamonds play like your table. I hit these shots at medium speed with 1 tip top and one tip running English.
 
Three rail kicks out of the corner are accomplished using either 10:30 or 1:30 on the cue ball.

Some tables run a little long, some a little short. It is up to the player to find the correct spot.
 
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straightline said:
Why the obsession with hitting the ball high?
Click to expand...
I can answer this! It comes from carom, and it guarantees that the ball is rolling and not slipping when it hits the first cushion. Some people call it a natural, but that term is confusing.

The point is to provide the most consistency because it eliminates the extra variable of cloth sliding friction. However, speed still matters as speed can alter the course a bit.

You don’t want max spin all of the time, it makes angles go longer.
 
straightline said:
Why the obsession with hitting the ball high?
Click to expand...

Because then it makes no difference how far you are from the first cushion. The cue ball will arrive with the same ratio of top spin to side spin. It is the most consistent way to play corner-5 shots.

Fore Rail said:
Three rail kicks out of the corner are accomplished using either 11:30 or 1:30 on the cue ball. ...
Click to expand...
I think you meant 10:30 and 1:30.

A major part of all diamond systems is the spin you are going to use on the cue ball. You have to keep that consistent for all shots within the system or the system cannot work well.
 
nataddrho said:
I can answer this! It comes from carom, and it guarantees that the ball is rolling and not slipping when it hits the first cushion. Some people call it a natural, but that term is confusing.

The point is to provide the most consistency because it eliminates the extra variable of cloth sliding friction. However, speed still matters as speed can alter the course a bit.
Click to expand...
Increases the bend off the first rail though. You can float the ball around with 3:15 o'clock spin.
 
That's a crazy short table. I have crappy cloth and I can hit maximum right english, no high, at the diamond next to the middle pocket and make the 8. Something is making your table run extremely short.
 
Moe Szyslak said:
That's a crazy short table. I have crappy cloth and I can hit maximum right english, no high, at the diamond next to the middle pocket and make the 8. Something is making your table run extremely short.
Click to expand...
Rails are too high or are dead?
 
straightline said:
Increases the bend off the first rail though. You can float the ball around with 3:15 o'clock spin.
Click to expand...
Interesting you say that. Watch this video, I am white and my friend is yellow. I scored at 1.0 average. You can see the difference in my tip position compared to his, which is extreme English on most shots.

What is worth noting is that he is a great one pocket player. I don’t think I have ever beat him. Carom isn’t his game and coming from pool I think players start off with max spin.

 
2 things. In 3 cushion, type of shot determines amount of English. ( As well as speed)
As it relates to this thread however, comparing carom and pool tables is pointless.
They play much different.
 
Increases the bend off the first rail though. You can float the ball around with 3:15 o'clock spin.
Click to expand...

Yeah I was curious why people are hitting high. I went and looked at Byrne's book to see if I misremembered something, but no. He's got it pretty much just running, a touch of high, maybe? hard to tell from the little ball, for 50-->30-->20. He says, "Use running english and firm speed." On my crappy 8' pool table I would maybe aim at 28 or so and come in at the corner. On my billiard table I would aim exactly 30 and just use running and come in a half diamond or more long from the corner.

2025-03-23 16_17_26-Byrne's Advanced Technique in Pool and Billiards ( PDFDrive ).pdf - Adobe ...png
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
I've seen a couple of videos lately that says if I hit the shot in this first picture with running english (top right) it will come around and pocket the 8B as shown in this first picture. That's basically hitting the middle diamond on the long rail.

However, on my table, I have to hit at least the last diamond - and perhaps halfway between the last diamond and the corner pocket - to get it to come around three rails to pocket the 8B as shown in this pic.


Is this normal? Does it vary that much from table to table?

r/DCP
Click to expand...
Your first diagram is wrong.

First, the cue butt must be aligned to shoot over where the corner diamond would be. Cue ball must be on the line between the P5 diamond and the D3. (To kick to the D8, you add the numbers 3+5=8).

In the book Desmond Allen notes most tables play short.
 
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