Threshold of a Break Cue : Does it Exist?

[A_Lake]

Good-day AZers,

I would like to hear on people's opinions regarding the possibility on the existence of a Threshold for Break Cues. True/False ?
(I may be thinking a little too much)

In this particular case, the "Threshold" refers to the highest possible cue-speed and strength that could result in a good solid break and spread. This contradicts the theory of "the harder and faster u break, the better the effect off the break in terms of ball spread/movement."

For example, a J&J break-jump cue breaks the balls well at 20 miles/hour, but breaks horrible at 22 miles/hour as the shaft tends to bend and causes a not so full hit on the cue ball. Causing me to believe that at 20 miles/hour to be the optimum and threshold for this particular cue. (OVER-POWERING)

So, does (OVER-POWERING) exist? I keep having the problem of lousy spread and pocketing on the break when breaking harder/faster...
BUT, everything is under control and good spread when breaking medium strength...
So, did (OVER-POWERING) Occur???

Does it make any sense??? Doesn't breaking faster = better spread???

 

[mel_smOg]

there is no point to use a break cue for a soft break, you get so much control using the same playing cue for a soft break.

But I find the same when breaking at higher speed- cues break completely differently even with the same speed

 

[Cdryden]

Good-day AZers,

I would like to hear on people's opinions regarding the possibility on the existence of a Threshold for Break Cues. True/False ?

In this particular case, the "Threshold" refers to the highest possible cue-speed and strength that could result in a good solid break. This contradicts the theory of "the harder and faster u break, the better the effect of the break."

For example, a J&J break-jump cue breaks the balls well at 20 miles/hour, but breaks horrible at 22 miles/hour as the shaft tends to bend and causes a not so full hit on the cue ball. Causing me to believe that at 20 miles/hour to be the optimum and threshold for this particular cue.

Given another example, I have tried various Mezz Power break cues, and tried breaking at 20 miles/hour, but I cant get a good spread of the balls and cluttering occurs. But seemingly, a harder break around 25 miles/hour would give me a massive break. Could this be caused by the stiffness of the break shaft and thus giving the Mezz a higher "Threshold"?

I have tried MANY MANY break cues and noted that some break better soft and some break better hard. I followed this plausible belief and tuned my break cue (tip, weight, balance, shaft) until I feel that my average break speed is similar to the Optimum/Threshold break speed of my break cue.

Does it make any sense???

More often than not getting a better break at certain speeds is due to where you're hitting the cue ball rather than the cue itself. At higher speeds your accuracy diminishes and you don't hit exactly where you think you are.

But for the sake of the discussion, yes I think finding the threshold of a cues tendency to flex under pressure is important in determining you break speed.

 

[hang-the-9]

To figure this out properly you'd need to use the magic rack and use a robot to execute the break at the exact same speed and to hit the rack at the exact same spot.

I think how the rack and table is setup is WAY more important than what cue you use to break with.

I can't say that I tried something like this, but I would bet that a well setup rack on clean cloth with no divots and good rails would break much better with a crappy 16oz house cue than a poorly maintained table with old balls using a $400 custom break cue.

Good-day AZers,

I would like to hear on people's opinions regarding the possibility on the existence of a Threshold for Break Cues. True/False ?

In this particular case, the "Threshold" refers to the highest possible cue-speed and strength that could result in a good solid break. This contradicts the theory of "the harder and faster u break, the better the effect of the break."

For example, a J&J break-jump cue breaks the balls well at 20 miles/hour, but breaks horrible at 22 miles/hour as the shaft tends to bend and causes a not so full hit on the cue ball. Causing me to believe that at 20 miles/hour to be the optimum and threshold for this particular cue.

Given another example, I have tried various Mezz Power break cues, and tried breaking at 20 miles/hour, but I cant get a good spread of the balls and cluttering occurs. But seemingly, a harder break around 25 miles/hour would give me a massive break. Could this be caused by the stiffness of the break shaft and thus giving the Mezz a higher "Threshold"?

I have tried MANY MANY break cues and noted that some break better soft and some break better hard. I followed this plausible belief and tuned my break cue (tip, weight, balance, shaft) until I feel that my average break speed is similar to the Optimum/Threshold break speed of my break cue.

Does it make any sense???

 

[Pidge]

What are you looking for in a good break? Spread, CB control and pocketing balls I'm guessing.

My old break cue was a crappy £30 cue I had laying around the house. It was very stiff, almost no flex in the shaft at all. I would spend hours, atleast 10 per week purely hitting my break rak trying to develop some CB control on the break with this crappy cue. After a few weeks I had it nailed. I was either stopping the CB dead, or it would hop up and back about a foot planting dead centre. I thought it was the greatest find ever. No. I was hitting the balls as hard as I could whilst getting a full hit stop shot on the 1. The cue didn't match this speed of break. It had 2 of the 3 factors that constitutes a good break; CB position and spread. I could not make a ball though. I'd get lucky on the odd occasion and 4 or 5 would slop on, but it was rare.

I had to increase the speed of the break to make a ball so my CB suffered and clusters started developing consistently.

So I tried a few friends break cues and found one that suited me. I simple did my stop shot break at my maximum stop shot speed until I found one that pocketed a ball, had good CB control and caused a decent spread. I think this is how people should search for a break cue. Seems people tend to go for cues that hit the hardest or make lots of balls without looking at where the CB ends up.

 

[A_Lake]

What are you looking for in a good break? Spread, CB control and pocketing balls I'm guessing.

My old break cue was a crappy £30 cue I had laying around the house. It was very stiff, almost no flex in the shaft at all. I would spend hours, atleast 10 per week purely hitting my break rak trying to develop some CB control on the break with this crappy cue. After a few weeks I had it nailed. I was either stopping the CB dead, or it would hop up and back about a foot planting dead centre. I thought it was the greatest find ever. No. I was hitting the balls as hard as I could whilst getting a full hit stop shot on the 1. The cue didn't match this speed of break. It had 2 of the 3 factors that constitutes a good break; CB position and spread. I could not make a ball though. I'd get lucky on the odd occasion and 4 or 5 would slop on, but it was rare.

I had to increase the speed of the break to make a ball so my CB suffered and clusters started developing consistently.

So I tried a few friends break cues and found one that suited me. I simple did my stop shot break at my maximum stop shot speed until I found one that pocketed a ball, had good CB control and caused a decent spread. I think this is how people should search for a break cue. Seems people tend to go for cues that hit the hardest or make lots of balls without looking at where the CB ends up.

I agree with you to a HUGE extent... most people nowadays tend to go for maximum break speed and impact... giving up CB control... shall try building up my break in a similar way to yours

 

[DAVE_M]

You are thinking too much.

Your break has many variables: The balls, the table, the cue, the rack, the temperature...
But these same variables exist during the game. Break until you find the happy medium.

 

[A_Lake]

edited

I edited this discussion a lil so its more focused on the point of "does over-powering exist?"

 

[Ghosst]

I edited this discussion a lil so its more focused on the point of "does over-powering exist?"

In 8-Ball and 10-Ball it certainly does. But not everyone studies their break shot religiously to notice what is consistent and what is different when they are varying the speed.

 

[LuckyStroke]

I edited this discussion a lil so its more focused on the point of "does over-powering exist?"

Absolutely. A friend of mine argued the Dechaine has a better break than SVB because of Dechaines power. My argument was Dechaine can hit 35mph but SVB will (and has) drill Dechaine into the ground with a 20mph break. It's not how hard you hit them, but how you hit them.

 

[mortuarymike-nv]

cues

I edited this discussion a lil so its more focused on the point of "does over-powering exist?"

You could try a shaft with a thicker taper? Or a purple heart shaft.

MMike

 

[Black-Balled]

Absolutely. A friend of mine argued the Dechaine has a better break than SVB because of Dechaines power. My argument was Dechaine can hit 35mph but SVB will (and has) drill Dechaine into the ground with a 20mph break. It's not how hard you hit them, but how you hit them.

Huh? There are other shots in a pool game. Mental fortitude plays a small(!) role too..

 

[ctyhntr]

When I walk into a tire store, I ask what is the difference between a tire with a S speed rating (112 mph ) versus a V rated tire (149 mph) at 3-4 times the price? If I don't drive more than the legal speed limit, I may be economically better off buying the S speed tire.

I believe every cue has a threshold of quality, maybe that is what you experienced. J&J is a smartly priced affordable jump/break cue which works for most people. Maybe for your new found skill level, you're realizing you're holding yourself back with the J&J.

 

[gxman]

Out of curiosity, what does shane break with? I've never really paid attention nor has I ever think its been mentioned on the podcast.

 

[A_Lake]

Shane breaks with an arsenal worth of 10000 hours of practice.... but I have no idea wats his breaker

 

[ceebee]

The answer to your question is YES.

In the engineering world, we use the term "column strength", to define the amount of compression a column can withstand before buckling. There are several things that can add to or subtract from a shaft's column strength.... a lesser amount of rings in the shaft can allow the shaft to a bend easier, a higher ring count will give a shaft more strength. Look for this in your search for a stiffer shaft. In the case of a radial ply shaft, it is stronger from the get go, because it's natural centroid strength has been modified in it's designed construction. Another thing that can help a break cue shaft is a larger diameter. The larger shaft can be stronger (ring count can modify that).

There are several facets to a great break cue. Most of the time a good play cue may not be your best bet in a power break scenario. A good tip is a great starting point, a shorter ferrule adds to the stiffness of that area, a larger diameter shaft, with a defined taper for overcoming the buckling problem, a stiff joint & a great balance... these all add up to good break cue qualities.