Thumb on top?

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Trying to get my stroke straight I put my thumb on top of the butt in line with the tip. I started to make balls as fast as I could put them on the table. It seems with thumb on top everything seem to line up,I'm on auto. I know this sounds silly, but please try this for one rack an reply. Thanks, P.S. Were is Efern?:)
 
skip said:
Trying to get my stroke straight I put my thumb on top of the butt in line with the tip. I started to make balls as fast as I could put them on the table. It seems with thumb on top everything seem to line up,I'm on auto. I know this sounds silly, but please try this for one rack an reply. Thanks, P.S. Were is Efern?:)
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I would absolutely not advise anyone to try this. While it may be temporarily helping you, in the long run, it is nothing more than a band-aid that is not really addressing the core problem.
If your stroke isn't straight, look to your alignment, and the movement of your arm. I think you will find that your solution may end up creating other problems when you need to make some shots.

Steve
 
skip said:
skip said:
Trying to get my stroke straight I put my thumb on top of the butt in line with the tip. I started to make balls as fast as I could put them on the table. It seems with thumb on top everything seem to line up,I'm on auto. I know this sounds silly, but please try this for one rack an reply. Thanks, P.S. Were is Efern?:)
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I completely agree with Steve. For S&G's, try shooting without your thumb on the cue at all and then tell me how that works for you.

and BTW, "Efern" does post here. His screen name is "Cocobolo Cowboy".
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skip said:
skip said:
Trying to get my stroke straight I put my thumb on top of the butt in line with the tip. I started to make balls as fast as I could put them on the table. It seems with thumb on top everything seem to line up,I'm on auto. I know this sounds silly, but please try this for one rack an reply. Thanks, P.S. Were is Efern?:)
Click to expand...

I agree with the above recommendations to stay away from this, while it could be a temporary fix it will hamper certain abilities. A thumb straight forward may keep your wrist in alignment or it may not, what it will do is take much action away from your wrist, back and forth wise. So its going to appear when you want to really snap the cue ball to gain certain action such as a draw shot. Keep your thumb pointed STRAIGHT DOWN. The straight down thumb is going to decrease the likely hood of your wrist being cocked to one side, thus not allowing another rotational axis on your stroke. The smaller number of hinges you got in your stroke the more consistent your going to become. Simplify your mechanics.

Grey Ghost
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skip said:
Trying to get my stroke straight I put my thumb on top of the butt in line with the tip. I started to make balls as fast as I could put them on the table. It seems with thumb on top everything seem to line up,I'm on auto. I know this sounds silly, but please try this for one rack an reply. Thanks, P.S. Were is Efern?:)
Click to expand...

Bad idea.

Even assuming this does keep your wrist in line, you can only pull the cue back about an inch without pulling it to one side or the other or raising your elbow. You can't follow through properly, in fact the tip will start to raise BEFORE you hit the cue ball. So that gives you a one or two inch back stroke with a poor follow through. And although some players have managed to play great with a very short stroke (see Allen Hopkins, Cliff Thorburn), they utilize a wrist action to generate more pace which this method doesn't allow.

In short this may help if you are only trying to cinch shots, but the moment you try to play any kind of position you're sunk.

I should think it would be impossible to develop past a low C rating by keeping your thumb on the cue.
 
I am not an instructor, but as someone who has used the "thumb on top", I would like to make a couple of points.

- Next to your index finger, the most accurate pointing instrument your body has is your thumb. There is scientific research that establishes this.

- When sighting your shot, pointing to the target with your thumb is likely the best way to aim IF your eyes/body are not properly aligned. Using the body's proprioception (knowledge of where you are in space), can do a lot to offset an imperfect line of sight. That is, we are able to point at targets pretty accurately even if we are not looking at them directly (again, there is published research that supports this).

- Having said all of this, you are really better off with good sighting, than you are with good pointing. Using the thumb to aim can result in significant improvement if your vision is not telling you the truth about where the cue is pointing.

- Thumb on the top can also correct against outward rolling of the wrist, which also tends to pull the elbow out. So, to a limited extent, if you are not mechanically lined up well, it can help to get your back arm in-line. I don't think it really offers much of an advantage over "thumb straight down" in this regard, however.

- IF you keep the thumb flat on the cue, it will kill your stroke. However, if just the tip of you thumb is on the cue top (thumb flexed at both knuckles), it will not necessarily have an adverse effect.

If you have physical limitations that prevent you from getting good alignment or good line-of-sight, using the thumb may be the best you can do. Otherwise, I would suggest maximizing these aspects of you game, which will likely leave you in the position of not needing or wanting to use this grip.
 
Dead Crab said:
Using the thumb to aim can result in significant improvement if your vision is not telling you the truth about where the cue is pointing.

- Thumb on the top can also correct against outward rolling of the wrist, which also tends to pull the elbow out. So, to a limited extent, if you are not mechanically lined up well, it can help to get your back arm in-line..
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You may be correct, but consider what you wrote. You suggest that two serious flaws may be corrected by this method. But it still doesn't address the basic flaws. If you aren't seeing where the cue is aiming, that needs to be addressed through proper head positioning and alignment.

If you are rolling your wrist, that again needs to be addressed in and of itself. It's much better to actually address the core problem, than to apply something else that might cover up one flaw, but create other problems. You don't want the medecine to be worse than the disease.

Steve
 
pooltchr said:
You may be correct, but consider what you wrote. You suggest that two serious flaws may be corrected by this method. But it still doesn't address the basic flaws. If you aren't seeing where the cue is aiming, that needs to be addressed through proper head positioning and alignment.

If you are rolling your wrist, that again needs to be addressed in and of itself. It's much better to actually address the core problem, than to apply something else that might cover up one flaw, but create other problems. You don't want the medecine to be worse than the disease.

Steve
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For the great majority of players, this is certainly true.

However, for some graybeards, the neck won't turn enough or the back won't bend enough to get the eyes where they need to be. And, there is a decay of vision with age. They won't fix your cataracts until you get to 20/50 vision, which isn't good enough for precision pool.

Using thumb on the stick and Jimmy Reid's closed bridge (where the bridge hand thumb is aligned along the axis of the cue) can really help you aim the cue better when your eyes aren't aligned well. For people who can't get aligned well consistently, or who don't have good vision, I think it can help.
 
Speaking as a former "dirty old man" (I'm now more politically correct, so I'm a "sexy senior citizen" LOL), I can understand what you are saying. My eyes are not as sharp as they used to be, and my hands are not as steady. For me, this is all the more reason to stick to very strict basic fundamentals. As I said, the thumb on top may help change the result, but it still restricts some of the motion required on some shots. If nothing else works, I guess it is better than continuing to miss shots, but I would try a lot of other solutions before settling on this one.

Geezer Power!!!!!!! :D

Steve
 
Dead Crab...While the "thumb on the bridge hand" MAY help some players believe they are aligned better to the shot, the thumb on top of the butt does not compliment this concept. In fact, as you mentioned, it KILLS the concept of a smooth stroke (as it won't allow a backswing), and most certainly leads to "poking" the CB...which doesn't help anyone learn to shoot more accurately.

As far as getting older, with less flexibility, and less accurate eyesight, any age player can learn to stand and sight the shot, in a manner that works with whatever physical limitations, or disabilities, that they have. That's why there is no "one stance fits all" concept.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Dead Crab said:
For the great majority of players, this is certainly true.

However, for some graybeards, the neck won't turn enough or the back won't bend enough to get the eyes where they need to be. And, there is a decay of vision with age. They won't fix your cataracts until you get to 20/50 vision, which isn't good enough for precision pool.

Using thumb on the stick and Jimmy Reid's closed bridge (where the bridge hand thumb is aligned along the axis of the cue) can really help you aim the cue better when your eyes aren't aligned well. For people who can't get aligned well consistently, or who don't have good vision, I think it can help.
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I'm not a pool teacher but this is interesting. Why? Because I tried it. I have a low success percentage on long straight in shots and when I go past my home pool table I shoot one just to make it cold. I think it's a good exercise for me and when I tried your technique my percentage seemed to go up. I'm going to do it over a few weeks and let you know my findings.

A lot of innovations were scoffed at first, but in time they were the new method. Just think of Muhammad Ali, Bob Fosbury, etc.
 
Tennesseejoe...This is not an 'innovation'...and poor habits have been practiced long enough (years and years) to work for some people. Ultimately, it's different strokes for different folks. I will tell you one thing, though, there are ZERO expert players who place their thumb on top of the butt of the cue.

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Tennesseejoe said:
A lot of innovations were scoffed at first, but in time they were the new method. Just think of Muhammad Ali, Bob Fosbury, etc.
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skip said:
Trying to get my stroke straight I put my thumb on top of the butt in line with the tip. I started to make balls as fast as I could put them on the table. It seems with thumb on top everything seem to line up,I'm on auto. I know this sounds silly, but please try this for one rack an reply. Thanks, P.S. Were is Efern?:)
Click to expand...

I think that using the grip hand thumb-on-top method will work fine if the conditions are right.
If you have a relatively short bridge length (from CB to bridge hand), and you have a short stroke, then the thumb won't affect the shot. I am double jointed, so I can bend my fingers twice as much as a normal person. I have tried this method for more than 1 rack.
The problem becomes noticeable when you make longer strokes because the thumb will have to bend. The farther your back swing, the more stress will be applied to your thumb. So, if you are bunt stroking on a 7 foot bar table with fast cloth. Then, running racks with the thumb method is not surprising.

But if you need to get some power in your shots, then you need to have a longer stroke, and the thumb method will cause you to miss shots because you will not be able to strike the CB accurately/consistently.

Like another poster mentioned, if you are rest your entire thumb on the cue, then it is an ill advised method. But if you are just using the tip of your thumb, then it may not be a problem.

To add: I think you will find that the cue is more prone to slip out of your grip when using the thumb on top method. After a few embarassing incidents during match play, you may decide to go back to a full grip.

Try doing this.....line up your shot, and before you pull the trigger, bring your thumb down (like a normal grip). I think you'll find that the thumb is not really doing much. The wrist alignment is the heart of the matter.
 
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In follow up to my previous post in which I said I would try it for a couple weeks, this is what I found.

I walk past my home table several times each day and take one long straight in shot with your thumb up style. My success is higher with your method than with the normal style. As instructors mentioned before, there are limitations in this stroke and I think I would break my thumb if I tried to break or shoot a table length draw.

All i all it was interesting but not something I will change to. But if someone would come up to me and bet on making a long straight in shot one time---I would think about it.
 
This is an interesting topic. Proper stance and alignment is critical to a sound repetitive stroke. That being said - As part of my “warmup stroke” I’ll drop the right thumb into a relaxed state and focus on allowing it to lead the stroke. This eliminates any manipulation of the wrist and elbow, and results in a crispier controlled delivery. I suggest focusing on the outcome and not trial and error. It’s the same with any method of swinging an object. Whether it’s billiards, tennis, golf, baseball - Work on improving your outcome and you’ll compete!
 
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