Tip installation question

belmicah said:
Proper burnishing is required to ensure the tip will not mushroom. A little water (or spit) is used by most of the cue repair guys I have seen do it on a lathe. I use very fine grit sandpaper and then leather. The little porper burnisher wasn't bad either with a little gob of spit.
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Yes, I do this too, I use orange oil cleaner, and a paper towel.. (just make sure the paper towel has no colored designs) the finish is very shinny, and looks very professional IMHO.. and I do it by hand.. the tip lasts longer, and performs better, too..



SPINDOKTOR
 
A couple of tips on doing your own tips that i've learned the hard way:
  • Do use a rapid cue top sander (that someone suggested above), BUT wrap a post-it note around the area of the shaft/ferrule that you'll be clamping on. This ensures the clamp doesn't dig into the shaft and leave little holes. Also make sure to rotate the shaft a few times at 90 degree increments in the sander so that you aren't always sanding in the same direction. It will ensure the ferrule is perfectly flat and it will give you a better cross-hatch pattern for gluing.
  • Wrap masking tape around the ferrule and at least the first 8 or 9 inches of the shaft. I get pretty close to the top of the ferulle with the tape, so maybe only the top .5 mm of the ferulle is exposed. This makes cleaning up glue spillover MUCH MUCH easier. In the event you do woops with the glue, you'll glue your hand to the tape not the shaft :D
  • Use a super glue-ish type gel not liquid. It's gives you a little more time to glue and it fills gaps.
  • When you're scuffing up the back of the tip on sandpaper laying on a flat surface:
    • Don't go crazy fast back and forth on the sandpaper. I find when you do this, you end up sanding the edges more than middle, so the tip doesn't lie flat on the ferrule. What works better I find is to lay the tip flat on the sandpaper, swipe it across the sandpaper, lift the tip off the sandpaper and bring back to the original position, push it back down on the sandpaper and swipe again, and so on and so forth. make sure to rotate the tip around at 90 degree incriments so it sands evenly.
    • Before you start gluing, lay the tip on the ferulle and hold it up to the light to make sure you can't see any light between the ferulle and tip (if you rounded the edges of the tip, you will see light).
  • However you choose to trim the edges of the tip (i use a blade and a guide), do make sure you're cutter is really sharp. a dull cutter is the easiest way to massacre a good tip.
  • If you have an electric drill, and you can you can get your hands on the appropriate joint pin, you can spin your shafts really easily. (or get a lathe :)) Makes blending the tip to the ferrule really quick. I don't use anything lower than 800grit on my ferrule/shaft (600 on the rare occasion i'm trying to fix something). I usually use 800, 1500, 2000, 4000, 8000.
  • Some tips are easier to install by hand than others. I find Kamui, Moori, Talisman pro, Everest easy to install. Snipers not so much.
  • Last but not least, don't lose a finger and keep some acetone handy in case you crazy glue yourself to something.
And there are my pearls of wisdom for the year...

Serge
 
Do you buy your tips in bulk?

Do you replace your tips weekly?

Do your tips play and age well?

Do you install them without risk of damaging your ferrule and shaft?

Do you value the time it takes you to tip a cue at less than $20?

If you answered no to any of these questions maybe you should take your cue to a professional.

Then agian, if there's no one near you to do it, you don't really have much choice.
 
Varney Cues said:
I don't think a $695 mini lathe is too much to spend for a lifetime of being able to do quality replacements on your own tips & ferrules. I would never offer any advice on doing it by hand...as it would be very unprofessional. Knowing what I know, I'd NEVER attemp to do one without a lathe. Sure, maybe I could get it to "look" ok....but I'd know it wasn't done correctly. Like Gene...I've seen way too many hack jobs where the ferrules were destroyed. I had a mini lathe to do my own work long before I was a cuemaker...as well as many others. Bnall has his own lathe...simply for his own use. Don Purdman has a full blown Deluxe Cuesmith. Like I said...there is a pro job & then there is "hey this looks great for an amateur with no lathe." ;)
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Mr. Varney makes a great point here. I believe belmicah used the phrase "I can make it look professional". The problem with this is that the performance and long term durability of the tip (especially layered tips) is directly related to the job done during the installation. Proper and accurate trimming, correctly facing off the ferrule first, and most of all burnishing the sides adequately at speed--these things really can only be accomplished by a lathe. I had the good fortune of living near a real tip expert who has been doing the work for maybe 40 years. He didn't mind me watching him and through that observation I learned the process. I also was lucky enough to work at a job with a lathe, so I could experiment. Through my experience, I have come to the point that I would not even consider having a tip replaced or even shaped much without a lathe. You can make it look ok, but how it feels and lasts is important, and this is something that can only be assured through the knowledge that the tip was installed correctly. My tip guy moved far away from me. I now pay the $40 for a Moori tip AND drive 1 1/2 hours to see him, because I know he will do it right, and the tip will last me 6 months at least. My last Moori is over a year old, and playes awesome. I will do my own tips when I can purchase a lathe, probably a Hightower.

Hope this helps,
KMRUNOUT
 
I think you can do a professional caliber tip installation without a lathe. It requires a lot of patience and some practice. I've been doing my own tips for a few yrs now and I would put up my tip installs against anybody's. I'm a serious perfectionist. Having said that though, it only takes me like 3 hours from start to finish to install a tip, so it's not AT ALL cost effective, but it is pretty perfect. If I had a professional in my area that I was happy with, I wouldn't be tipping my own cues.
 
belmicah said:
The guy asks what he needs to do the job and you offer a $695 dollar alternative to taking it to a "professional."

I expect a professional to say "take it to a professional", and I guess that's exactly what you are saying.

You have a point about the ivory ferrule on a Gina cue thing, but even professionals make mistakes.

The guy is looking to do his own, and it is well within most people's ability to do so. I encourage it, but I don't expect you too. Why don't you give him some "professional" advice on how to do it by hand, instead of offering an unrealistic alternative.
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It sounds like you are implying that because we, as professionals, suggest taking it to a professional, that we are simply looking out for our own interest. Forgive me if I am wrong. Varney, myself, and any other pro would give that advice because it is the BEST advice. There are alternatives, just not many good ones.

The overwhelming motivation for doing one's tip themselves, is to save money. Players that use a soft or medium tip, play as long as they can see some leather left. Why? To save money. Neither are good reasons for saving $$$.

Most do not know that the soft tip they had installed three months ago, although still showing plenty of "meat", is no longer soft.

Leave the installs to the pros especially with the influx of laminated tips. They introduce a whole other plateau of potential problems if installed incorrectly.

By the way, if a professional makes a mistake on an ivory ferrule, he has one to replace it. What's the chance someone is going to have an ivory ferrule in their pocket, much less know how to replace one.

Gene
 
Cuedog said:
...

The overwhelming motivation for doing one's tip themselves, is to save money. ...

Gene
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I think I might disagree with that. I don't tip any shafts myself that I really care about, BUT I do tip my lower end cue shafts just for the fun of it whether they need tips or not sometimes. When all is said and done no money is saved, but it is just the doing it I enjoy. If I get a lathe some day or get really good at the by hand process, I'll do my higher end shafts too.
 
I've done all my own tips and shaft cleaning for several years now, and have never ruined an ivory or other ferrule or shaft, and they stay round. I have a sewing machine motor rigged with a crutch tip and foot pedal that works pretty well, but is definitely not "professional"....but only have around $25 into it. So far, so good!
:p
 
With time and practice , a well done tip job can be achieved without a lathe but of course it's much easier and more reliable to use one.

However , $700 for a tiny , useless for anything else , 'Tip lathe' is insanity IMO. When for half that cost or less you can buy a full machine lathe and actually have a real shop tool for many other uses both pool related and other wise.

IMO. :)
 
catscradle said:
I think I might disagree with that. I don't tip any shafts myself that I really care about, BUT I do tip my lower end cue shafts just for the fun of it whether they need tips or not sometimes. When all is said and done no money is saved, but it is just the doing it I enjoy. If I get a lathe some day or get really good at the by hand process, I'll do my higher end shafts too.
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Let's keep an open mind here. I didn't say that EVERYONE's motivation is to save money. Without question, there are many players that get enjoyment out of working their own tips.

Let's face it, there's nothing wrong with saving some cash where you can. But, if you are a serious player, and want the maximum effectiveness and accuracy from your cue, the use of a lathe will give you both far better than a free-hand install.

Gene
 
I agree with hejests. Do it yourself. Shown below are several cues and the equipment I use. Can you tell which tips I put on and which were put on by professionals?
I'll present the answer after you have had time to guess.
Not included inthe photo are the Williard shaper and the APT ultimate tipper used for rough shaping the sides.

When measured with a caliper none of the shafts have decreased appreciably in diameter and some of these sticks have been retipped more than 5 times.

1 Mottey
2 Mottey
3 Predator Z
4 Rick Howard
5 Meucci
6 Mali
7 Dufferin (snooker cue)
8 Sports craft (screw on tip)

One tip was put on a few days ago. The rest have been installed within the last five years.

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The only thing I do differently than hejests is to use the back side of a piece of emory cloth to burnish the tip that has been moistened with my finger. If you have several cues it is worth learning to do it yourself. I am not a cue maker and I do most things myself around the house -- I built the house from scratch. So I just have general all around guy skills. Over the years I have probably put on 50 tips and have had maybe five come off. I just do them again when this happens.

I have seen a drill and a rest used for shafts and that would make things easier. Now that I have been reminded of it here I will probably make such a device for my portable drill. They do work well. None of the cues shown here were done in this way. They were all done by hand using the back of two bar stools to support the cue while it was sanded or polished.
 
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Tips

I send all my Predator shafts back to Predator and have them do all my tip work. I figure if they screw it up they will know how to fix it or give me a new shaft. A friend of mine recently got a lathe and is doing his own tips. He offered to do mine at no charge and although they look great I still don't feel comfortable with anyone but Predator - Sorry Shane.

The last time I had a local guy, with a lathe, install a tip on my 314 he melted the ferrule.

Unless you play with a screw on tip, send it to a pro. Just my two cents.
 
RRfireblade said:
With time and practice , a well done tip job can be achieved without a lathe but of course it's much easier and more reliable to use one.

However , $700 for a tiny , useless for anything else , 'Tip lathe' is insanity IMO. When for half that cost or less you can buy a full machine lathe and actually have a real shop tool for many other uses both pool related and other wise.

IMO. :)
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Most players can find the time, but how much practice can the average player get installing tips? Also, how do you know it's a well done job and if the next one will be as good or better than the previous one. Free-hand installs are hard to get consistent.

Also, I find it hard to believe that the poster would stick to doing just his tips if he took Kevin's suggestion and purchased a $700.00 "cue" lathe. Once he gets good at doing his own, he will have done friends, family & tips, and before you know it, the lathe is paid for. If he absolutely hates doing that kind of work. or just is no good at it, he could sell the lathe and still make out okay.

Gene
 
Tip put on by professionals that I have not yet needed to replace shown in bold. All other tips I put on myself.

1 Mottey
2 Mottey
3 Predator Z
4 Rick Howard (pro tip on this break jump cue)
5 Meucci (Cue maker replaced ferreule and tip)
6 Mali (original I think, it is a friends cue)
7 Dufferin (snooker cue)
8 Sports craft (screw on tip)

I use LePro tips on all of my cues and buy 25 or so at a time. I thought it might be an interesting way to compare tips by placing various tips on a screw in tip. The one shown is a lePro replacement that I did on a screw in tip. Haven't got any other tips yet but this does appear to be a way to compare tips.

I think that if it works out then one could simply change tips in a match for a break, jump, or masse type shot (such as with the twister). This is a work in progress. All that I have learned so far is that a LePro tip and the regular Sport Craft tip are substantially different.
 
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Cuedog said:
Most players can find the time, but how much practice can the average player get installing tips? Also, how do you know it's a well done job and if the next one will be as good or better than the previous one. Free-hand installs are hard to get consistent.

Also, I find it hard to believe that the poster would stick to doing just his tips if he took Kevin's suggestion and purchased a $700.00 "cue" lathe. Once he gets good at doing his own, he will have done friends, family & tips, and before you know it, the lathe is paid for. If he absolutely hates doing that kind of work. or just is no good at it, he could sell the lathe and still make out okay.

Gene
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Let's be honest ;) a Professional is a VERY loose term. I've been unsatisfied with alot more 'pro' jobs than my own and I'm no pro.

The average so-called 'Pro' that someone will find thru thier local resources will not know how good or bad that tip job is (besides basic appearances) till after you tell them about it anyway. Same way you find out yourself. Just don't pratice on your money night. :D

Practice is easy. Put one on , play it for a while , see how it plays and/or holds up. Try it again. A basic tips cost what $1-$2 a piece? Less in quantity ? There are even generic layered for a a couple bucks a piece out now. No reason to wait till it's worn out to try again.

I agree about purchasing the tools and making money with them but as I said , IMO , that $700 tip machine is a very bad investment unless you must have extreme portability and limited function for maximum cost.
 
Poolfiend said:
I send all my Predator shafts back to Predator and have them do all my tip work. I figure if they screw it up they will know how to fix it or give me a new shaft. A friend of mine recently got a lathe and is doing his own tips. He offered to do mine at no charge and although they look great I still don't feel comfortable with anyone but Predator - Sorry Shane.

The last time I had a local guy, with a lathe, install a tip on my 314 he melted the ferrule.

Unless you play with a screw on tip, send it to a pro. Just my two cents.
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Why not send your Volvo overseas to get a tire change while your at it.

I think that is waaay overkill. Just don't buy shafts with shitty plastic ferrules.

Besides, how long can you be without your cue. I can go like 14 hours at most, and most people don't have numerous extra shafts that play the same as their normal playing shaft.

You obviously aren't hurting for cash like most pool players (like me) or you wouldn't send yours off everytime you needed a new tip.

To each his own
 
RRfireblade said:
Let's be honest ;) a Professional is a VERY loose term. I've been unsatisfied with alot more 'pro' jobs than my own and I'm no pro.

The average so-called 'Pro' that someone will find thru thier local resources will not know how good or bad that tip job is (besides basic appearances) till after you tell them about it anyway. Same way you find out yourself. Just don't pratice on your money night. :D

Practice is easy. Put one on , play it for a while , see how it plays and/or holds up. Try it again. A basic tips cost what $1-$2 a piece? Less in quantity ? There are even generic layered for a a couple bucks a piece out now. No reason to wait till it's worn out to try again.

I agree about purchasing the tools and making money with them but as I said , IMO , that $700 tip machine is a very bad investment unless you must have extreme portability and limited function for maximum cost.
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You are mistaking a pro pretender with a qualified professional. I said a professional and that's what I mean. No loose terms there.

I'll also clear up what I mean by practice. Practice is doing a couple hundred house cues with the same care that you would use with a custom cue. Practice is always looking for a better way or a more refined way of completing an install by doing hundreds of tips over a period of time. Knowing which ones to throw away because they don't meet standards even before gluing them to the shaft. Or, if you have glued a bad tip to a shaft, having the experience to know that it is a bad tip simply because of the way it cuts or shapes for you. And if you know it's a bad tip, having the integrity to replace it even though you are installing it for a low level player that may not know the difference. All they know is that it LOOKS GOOD.

That's practice. That's professionalism.

Gene
 
To each his own . . .

belmicah said:
Why not send your Volvo overseas to get a tire change while your at it.

I think that is waaay overkill. Just don't buy shafts with shitty plastic ferrules.

Besides, how long can you be without your cue. I can go like 14 hours at most, and most people don't have numerous extra shafts that play the same as their normal playing shaft.

You obviously aren't hurting for cash like most pool players (like me) or you wouldn't send yours off everytime you needed a new tip.

To each his own
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No I am not hurting for cash.

One nice thing about Predator shafts is that they do play pretty much the same and yes I do have multiple shafts.

What is up with the "shitty plastic ferrules" comment? Are you suggesting that because the ferrule is plastic that I am responsible for someone else's negligence. Interesting.

Great analogy with the Volvo by the way. No flaws in that logic.
 
For me I find that replacing the tip myself is not my cup of tea. For less than $20.00 I can get a Lepro tip installed and be playing again in 20 minutes.
 
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