Tip popping off

P

PracticeChampion

Well-known member
Im new to tip work but have done 30-40 successful

I have a predator shaft that has had many, many tips installed on it so to prolong the Ferrell life I decided to install a pad so that way at tip changes the pad looses a little material instead of the Ferrell. The pad seems to have stuck well to the ferrel but I've had 2 tips pop off almost immediately now.

I use loc Tite gel control glue and rough up tip using 150 and allowed last tip to sit for 24 hrs.

Is there something special about pads that I'm missing that's different from a typical tip to Ferrell install?
 
Not a cue maker but I do cue maintenance for myself and friends. The only tip I ever had pop was with loc tite gel control glue. I went back to gorilla glue gel (the super glue kind) and have had no problems. What are the pads made of? Said tip that popped was also a kamui clear, facing the clear pad (they are not flat as advertised) and switching to gorilla glue gel fixed the problem.

I know many, many people have had success with the loc tite but I'll never use it again personally. I gave away a brand new bottle after the incident.
 
boogieman said:
Not a cue maker but I do cue maintenance for myself and friends. The only tip I ever had pop was with loc tite gel control glue. I went back to gorilla glue gel (the super glue kind) and have had no problems. What are the pads made of? Said tip that popped was also a kamui clear, facing the clear pad (they are not flat as advertised) and switching to gorilla glue gel fixed the problem.

I know many, many people have had success with the loc tite but I'll never use it again personally. I gave away a brand new bottle after the incident.
Click to expand...
I using ultra skin pro tip

I started with the ultra gel control and that was causing a few issues with previous tips but switched to loctight gel control and have done probably 20 tips with no issues but they were a direct tip to Ferrell, no pad. Maybe I'll try out the gorilla glue but it seems odd that the loctight stuck the pad to the ferrel but the tip won't stick

The pad material I don't know
 
PracticeChampion said:
I using ultra skin pro tip

I started with the ultra gel control and that was causing a few issues with previous tips but switched to loctight gel control and have done probably 20 tips with no issues but they were a direct tip to Ferrell, no pad. Maybe I'll try out the gorilla glue but it seems odd that the loctight stuck the pad to the ferrel but the tip won't stick

The pad material I don't know
Click to expand...
Is the pad a plastic or some type of fiber like the red pads? I'm thinking @aphelps1 is probably on the right path, I'd be sure to face the pad, any unevenness can cause a tip to pop.
 
boogieman said:
Is the pad a plastic or some type of fiber like the red pads? I'm thinking @aphelps1 is probably on the right path, I'd be sure to face the pad, any unevenness can cause a tip to pop.
Click to expand...
It is a plastic type.

I faced it prior to first tip and then another time after second tip.

Is it best to rough the pad surface with blade cuts, sandpaper or leave smooth
 
PracticeChampion said:
It is a plastic type.

I faced it prior to first tip and then another time after second tip.

Is it best to rough the pad surface with blade cuts, sandpaper or leave smooth
Click to expand...
I've not used the plastic type but the kamui clear do have a plastic pad. I faced it smooth with something like 600 grit emery cloth. I didn't go wild on it, but lapped it until it had a uniform dull finish.
 
boogieman said:
I've not used the plastic type but the kamui clear do have a plastic pad. I faced it smooth with something like 600 grit emery cloth. I didn't go wild on it, but lapped it until it had a uniform dull finish.
Click to expand...
Ill try one more time, if it doesn't work I'll probably just cut pad off and go with a fiber instead
 
PracticeChampion said:
I using ultra skin pro tip

I started with the ultra gel control and that was causing a few issues with previous tips but switched to loctight gel control and have done probably 20 tips with no issues but they were a direct tip to Ferrell, no pad. Maybe I'll try out the gorilla glue but it seems odd that the loctight stuck the pad to the ferrel but the tip won't stick

The pad material I don't know
Click to expand...

That glue is packaged wonderfully, but it does go bad. I just had a tip pop off and I realized the glue I used hadn't been opened yet, but was about a year old.

Maybe your glue is old?

One other thing that pops off tips: If you roughen the tip bottom before installing, it is very easy to put a convex shape to it and that rocks the tip, and it will pop off on a hard draw shot.


Jeff Livingston
 
chefjeff said:
That glue is packaged wonderfully, but it does go bad. I just had a tip pop off and I realized the glue I used hadn't been opened yet, but was about a year old.

Maybe your glue is old?

One other thing that pops off tips: If you roughen the tip bottom before installing, it is very easy to put a convex shape to it and that rocks the tip, and it will pop off on a hard draw shot.


Jeff Livingston
Click to expand...
I'll say package is only a few weeks old to me but coulda been on a shelf for 5 years for all I know, I'll try new also.

When I do rough up tip I do it on a heavy piece of mirror to help reduce any uneven spots
 
PracticeChampion said:
I'll say package is only a few weeks old to me but coulda been on a shelf for 5 years for all I know, I'll try new also.

When I do rough up tip I do it on a heavy piece of mirror to help reduce any uneven spots
Click to expand...

Dry fit it and look for light along the edge where it meets the ferrule.

Mirrors or other hard, rock hard, surfaces do help prevent the problem. The cloth on a pool table has enough "give" to create the problem when roughing up the tip bottom with the sandpaper on the cloth. Also, some say to keep it smooth by using 220 or higher because super glue likes smooth. Don't know for sure about that.


Jeff Livingston
 
I do a trick and have commented on it here but have gotten no replies one way or the other...

When I'm curing the glue, I press the tip down on the floor for about 5 seconds then release for a few seconds, then repeat the process a couple of times. My thinking is that the glue will develop different lengths of bonding and this will help hold it on when super stressed by a hit.

Maybe a chemical major can chime in here?


Jeff Livingston
 
I've used super glue Gel or probably any other Gel S.G. will work.
Once both surfaces are faced I apply needed amt gel to the ferrule.
Take the tip too the ferrule and touch/turn to get both surfaces equally wet.
I center the tip then, I don't push down.
Once it looks centered I do this.
I drop bump the tip/Once on a hard floor to burp the glue/air pockets outta the faced surfaces.
I then reck for proper centering and let it dry vertically.
 
tsp&b said:
In many cases it is the glue that is being used. If it is over a month old retire it and open a new container of glue. With a pad I usually like to lightly score the face of the pad. It seems to help.
Click to expand...

I'm going with this. I've had 1 tip fall off due to glue, I simply won't use glue that's been open for more than 30 days. Not worth it.
 
It's all in the preparation, not only do you need a fresh bottle of a quality CA, you need to make sure the ferrule is faced off nice and flat, prep the tip and sand the base flat. Then clean both surfaces with denatured alcohol, then glue the tip on with the right amount of force. When trimming the tip make sure the cutter you use is super sharp and use a live center with a small concave to apply preassure on the tip while trimming the tip.
Been a slow year this year because of Covid-19, but I've still done over 600 tip jobs this year, no tips have fallen off this far, I think that's due to consistency in the prep work.
 
PracticeChampion said:
Im new to tip work but have done 30-40 successful

I have a predator shaft that has had many, many tips installed on it so to prolong the Ferrell life I decided to install a pad so that way at tip changes the pad looses a little material instead of the Ferrell. The pad seems to have stuck well to the ferrel but I've had 2 tips pop off almost immediately now.

I use loc Tite gel control glue and rough up tip using 150 and allowed last tip to sit for 24 hrs.

Is there something special about pads that I'm missing that's different from a typical tip to Ferrell install?
Click to expand...
I have used the Loc-Tite gel for some time with great results.
The only failures were with a red or black fiber pad installed.

It might be possable for the leather to wick away some of the super glue gel as it is seting.
Using some water thin super glue I pre-glue a layered tip, set it with accelerator, and face it on a flat sanding block.
This is to keep the bottom layer of leather from adsorbing the gel glue and weakning the bond to the ferrule or pad.
This makes the bottom layer like a hardened pad and I dont think the thin glue goes past the bottom layers glue joint.
I do not use this method with solid leather tips.
 
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