Tip question on glazing

ChicagoRJ said:
being a science guy on this I thought you would understand. The scratching is raising the fibers of the lather.
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I understand it fine - it's an inefficient and awkward way to do that, particularly compared with better products already on the market that are actually designed for that purpose.

...by pushing down on the leather, you are in fact, changing the make up of the tip. The leather has to go some where when it's being forced by the pick.
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Picking a tip doesn't "push down on the leather"; it penetrates it, makes a few tiny shallow holes (maybe 1/32" deep or so), and pulls the edges of the holes up slightly when the pick is pulled up, giving the tip some "texture" without removing (or compressing) any leather.

The hand motion for this is like tapping a cigarette before lighting it - light, quick tapping straight down on the tip, turning the cue between taps to cover the tip. Takes about 5 seconds. I think any other use is a mistake.

pj
chgo
 
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ElkMaster, never had a problem with glazing. And replace it often to keep it from compressing. Years ago we had glazing problems because of breaking with same cue's.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
I understand it fine - it's an inefficient and awkward way to do that, particularly compared with better products already on the market that are actually designed for that purpose.


Picking a tip doesn't "push down on the leather"; it penetrates it, makes a few tiny shallow holes (maybe 1/32" deep or so), and pulls the edges of the holes up slightly when the pick is pulled up, giving the tip some "texture" without removing (or compressing) any leather.

The hand motion for this is like tapping a cigarette before lighting it - light, quick tapping straight down on the tip, turning the cue between taps to cover the tip. Takes about 5 seconds. I think any other use is a mistake.

pj
chgo
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regardless of how long you do it, solid metal spikes are entering into the tip, at that exact moment, the metal spikes are taking up space inside of the tip. The leather has to go somewhere for this to happen, and it does.

Granted, doing in the slow methodical method you do it, might not cause much damage if any,,, I don't really know. Most folks stab their tips like a crazed lunatic trying to make the tip tell them everything he knows.
 
ChicagoRJ said:
regardless of how long you do it, solid metal spikes are entering into the tip, at that exact moment, the metal spikes are taking up space inside of the tip. The leather has to go somewhere for this to happen, and it does.
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It goes to either side of the needle - and then closes up again as the needle is removed. How much leather do you suppose a needle point can push ahead of itself?

Granted, doing in the slow methodical method you do it, might not cause much damage if any,,, I don't really know.
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I do - been doing it every day for many years - no damage or compression whatsoever. But it's probably not as slow as you suggest - I tap rapidly and firmly.

I used to hear a lot about the "damage" picking could do to layered tips. All of my picking has been done on layered tips, with no damage whatsoever in all that time and all those layered tips. I think those who complained of that were "scratching" the needle tips across the leather.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
It goes to either side of the needle - and then closes up again as the needle is removed. How much leather do you suppose a needle point can push ahead of itself?


I do - been doing it every day for many years - no damage or compression whatsoever. But it's probably not as slow as you suggest - I tap rapidly and firmly.

I used to hear a lot about the "damage" picking could do to layered tips. All of my picking has been done on layered tips, with no damage whatsoever in all that time and all those layered tips. I think those who complained of that were "scratching" the needle tips across the leather.

pj
chgo
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Well, it does not go to "either" side. The needle is pushing down, it's pushing the material down as well. That's how it works. It appears you are not the only one who has been doing it wrong for a long time.


I don't believe anyone complaining of damaged layered tips ever "scratched" their tip. As, I've never seen anyone do it that way, ever, not even one time. They all just pounded the tip pik into the tip. It's how I use to do it too. When Mike told me this was the best method for tip piks, it was the first time I ever heard such a thing. So, those damages tips were from the maniacs punishing their tip but doing it just a tad to hard.

I might have use the incorrect terminology when I said "scratch" the needles across... I should have used the term "roll" it across the tip. A slow, light pressure roll. google Jennifer Berretta on Utube, she actually knows how to use a tip pik and demonstrates it :) I wish I knew how to post that video.. she's cute too :)
 
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ChicagoRJ said:
...it does not go to "either" side. The needle is pushing down, it's pushing the material down as well. That's how it works.
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So when you hammer a nail through a board, where does all the "pushed down" wood go?

When you get an injection, where does all the "pushed down" skin go?

Why do you think nails and needles are sharply pointed?

I think your visualization of this might need a little work.

pj
chgo
 
Patrick Johnson said:
So when you hammer a nail through a board, where does all the "pushed down" wood go?

When you get an injection, where does all the "pushed down" skin go?

Why do you think nails and needles are sharply pointed?

I think your visualization of this might need a little work.

pj
chgo
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I guess you've never seen a board splinter while nailing it. Weird? I think your physics of this might need a little work.

For the record, the wood is pushed/moved into the board. That is why "scrapes" on cues are not really scrapes sometimes. The fibers have just been altered and it can come back with a little work. Surely, you have seen this. I had an old Burton Spain that I thought was really damaged, but it was not, the fibers were "moved" and looked like new after some cue guy named Hercek "fixed" it :)
 
ChicagoRJ said:
Well, it does not go to "either" side. The needle is pushing down, it's pushing the material down as well. That's how it works. It appears you are not the only one who has been doing it wrong for a long time.


I don't believe anyone complaining of damaged layered tips ever "scratched" their tip. As, I've never seen anyone do it that way, ever, not even one time. They all just pounded the tip pik into the tip. It's how I use to do it too. When Mike told me this was the best method for tip piks, it was the first time I ever heard such a thing. So, those damages tips were from the maniacs punishing their tip but doing it just a tad to hard.

I might have use the incorrect terminology when I said "scratch" the needles across... I should have used the term "roll" it across the tip. A slow, light pressure roll. google Jennifer Berretta on Utube, she actually knows how to use a tip pik and demonstrates it :) I wish I knew how to post that video.. she's cute too :)
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The way you describe "rolling" the pick on the tip sounds a lot like the intended action of the Kamui Gator Grip, but in reverse. I roll the tip on the Gator Grip while giving the tiniest bit of resistance in the opposite direction. I've never used anything that worked better for putting a nice chalk hungry surface on a tip without removing material.

KMRUNOUT


Sent from my iPhone using AzBilliards Forums
 
ChicagoRJ said:
I might have use the incorrect terminology when I said "scratch" the needles across... I should have used the term "roll" it across the tip. A slow, light pressure roll. google Jennifer Berretta on Utube, she actually knows how to use a tip pik and demonstrates it :) I wish I knew how to post that video.. she's cute too :)
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She does what I do, pushes the needles straight in and pulls them straight out - just with a different hand motion.

pj
chgo
 
here is the video of jen explaining the use of the tip pic
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1K5wnz_XM4I
i think the warning of the tip pic with layered tips is if you twist the pic on the leather you could separate the layers
rj i am with pj on this one
if you want to rough up the tip use a scuffer
if you want to make the tip more "porous" and" textured" to hold chalk better use a tip pic
my 2 cents
 
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