Tip Replacement Without A Lathe?

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Ernest

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There's about a million different "tools" (Porper, Willard, etc.) for tip replacement and maintenance, but which ones really do the job? I can't really afford even a small lathe and I'm only looking to do tip replacement for myself, so any good how-to advice would really be helpful.


Thanks in advance.
 
call me and I'll explain how to do it fairly easily.Will take about two minutes to explain it.
blud
830-232-5991
 
leonard ...how is the new repair lathe coming along....do you have any pics or prototypes of it yet.......would like to see it in its finished stage.....juston
 
Juston,

I just do not have enough time to get it all done. I had planned for it to hit the market place in DEC.03

Plans changed.
This new organization has taken up several weeks too. No ones fault but mine. Trying to help others my members, has caused a slite delay. Sorry for that.

JAPAN trip,
I have had an invite by my biggest dealer in Japan, to go to Tokyo, in early dec.

The new machine, I'll put it off a couple month's . When it's ready, I'll give you a nice dis-count, and you can try and sell a few on a commision basis if you want. Deal??
blud

PS, it's really a kick-ass machine, you can build, shafts, intall ferrules, butts plates, do "all" repairs, and can make "VEE" pointed cues on it also. Build Pete's.It will be priced right.
 
Ernest said:
There's about a million different "tools" (Porper, Willard, etc.) for tip replacement and maintenance, but which ones really do the job? I can't really afford even a small lathe and I'm only looking to do tip replacement for myself, so any good how-to advice would really be helpful.
This book might be exactly what you're looking for:

"How to Tip a Pool Cue: The Laymen's Guide" by Terry Macioge
Mueller's product description:
This book brings together information on billiard maintenance tools, ferrules and tips and provides six simple techniques for replacing a cue tip and making it stay on the cue. Included are reviews on many popular maintenance tools on the market today as well as the various types of ferrules most commonly found on cues and an extensive review of over thirty tips: types, densities and sizes. If you own a cue, you’ll need to know how to maintain your tip and how to replace it when the time comes. If you’re one of the many who knows little about the tools and methodology to do this, then this book is for you.
You can find it at Mueller's, Amazon, or Barnes & Noble.


HTH :)
 
I doubt many cuemaker will disclose their method on public forum but here is post from Newsgroup FOR FREE
From: Otto
Subject: Moori MH installed
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Date: 2001-12-25 08:36:10 PST
----------------------------------------------------------

I found myself bored and decided to attempt to install a MH Moori I purchased from Anthony DeAngelo. I was concerned a layered tip could not be done without a lathe but recently someone here or on ASP offered some encouragement that it could be done. Up to this point I had not done any layered tips or tips on a nicer cue but had done lots on house cues, etc.

Here we go.

Part I (took me somewhere between 15-30 minutes)

I used a razor to cut the old tip off being very careful not to touch the ferrule. I then wrapped the ferrule and the first part of the shaft with masking tape. I made sure the masking tape went beyond the end of the ferrule so the sander would cut it flush with the edge of the ferrule.

I then attached the Rapid Top sander and began sanding away the old tip and glue. Every few turns I loosen the bracket that holds the sander to the shaft and rotate the shaft 90 degrees to compensate for any deviation from perfect perpendicular in the rapid top sander. I sanded until there was no sign of old tip or glue taking care on the last few turns so I did not remove excess material from the end of the ferrule.

Now to prep the tip. I used 100 grit sandpaper on a flat surface(mine is a face planed piece of scrap cherry--a piece of glass would work perfect). I gently removed the surface of the tip(using a cirular motion) until I had the surface flat and with fresh skin showing. I did notice the edges of the tip appear to want to flex slightly or the tip was rolling off slightly so I had to make sure I did not press down too hard on the edges or the tip would end up with a convex surface. When I was happy with the surface I did the same briefly on some 220 grit. The material the Mooris are made of is a distinctly different type of hide or tanning process or something from the other leather tips I have done(elkmaster, lepro, triangle). It sanded off differently and had a distinctly different feel. Pigskin maybe?

Next I did a dry fit on the ferrule to make sure I liked the way it was fitting on the ferrule. Checking to make sure both surfaces were flat and fit nicely with no gapping.

Next I got out the Zap a Gap and placed a drop on the tip and applied the tip to the ferrule. I took care to insure the tip was centered with equal overhang on all sides. Once in place, a slight twist to eliminate any air and spread the glue and even pressure with my fingers insuring the tip is where I wanted it. I held it for a couple minutes and then clamped it. I use one of the plastic and rubber band clamps. I let it sit overnight.

Part II(took me about 45 minutes)

I removed the clamp. I began with some 120 grit sandpaper and set up a jig similar to the FAQ. I used a stop block for end of the tip to run against. Under the block and sticking out was the sandpaper. I then taped down a cover page from a magazine exposing only enough of the sandpaper to cut the tip.

I then began the process of sliding the ferrule along the mag cover, taking care to------VERY IMPORTANT----- keep the ferrule flat on the cover, and removing the excess tip overhang. Taking my time here and rotating the shaft as I go. Once the tip was flush with the masking tape I had applied in part I, I removed the tape and continued with the removal of the excess tip.

The only thing I had to really concentrate on in this removal phase was keeping the ferrule side flat on the mag cover. This keeps the edge of the tip in line with the edge of the ferrule.

I could get it nearly perfect except for the thickness of the mag cover. This could be compensated for by putting a mag cover under the sandpaper also. I believe this is what the FAQ has you do.

I finished up the last bit freehand and progressed through 220, 320, 400, 600, and 2000 grit sandpaper.

Next I used one of the long tin shapers to begin the rough shaping of the crown on the tip. I followed that with the Cue Cube to get a nice dime shape. I put the shaft on the cue and the cube on the floor and try to start a fire. Note--take care to keep the cue straight up and down. Check the tip periodically to check the shoulder of the tip and make sure it is even(indication your cue is being held straight up and down). Once I had a nice dime shape I proceeded to burnish the edge of the tip with some spit
and a leather pad.

I cleaned up the shaft with some Bin AMI and hit it with the 2000 grit sandpaper. After that I applied a couple coats of Jonson's Paste wax to the ferrule(aegis) and buffed to a nice shine. I followed this with a burnish of the shaft and tip with a leather pad.

The Moori MH really burnishes up nice. I've only got a few hours on it and no sign of mushroom. It feels slightly harder than the Triangle.

I was so satisfied with the results I put another Moori MH on my other shaft. On that one I only let the glue set for a couple hours in the clamp before I began the finish process. I think an hour is probably plenty of dry time but I wanted to make sure.

I am super happy with the results and wanted to pass on the process and results.

Otto-------cuemaker------



__________________
Best days and sorry for my bad English.

Sergei Kharkov
 
Ernest, grab the latest issue of "Inside Pool". In it, there's an article on tip replacement by Mr. Buss, the cue maker. I think the article is under his monthly contibution called "The Buss Stops". Anyway, he descibes an on the fly method with no special tools req'd. Best though, to have someone do it on a lathe...

BTW Blud, does your repair lathe have similarities to the Porper model, ie is it portable?
 
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What if the glue of the tip comes off and you don't have a replacement?

Slightly sand the base of the tip until it is flat. Sand the tip of the ferrule by holding the shaft straight down on the sandpaper and turn the shart with #1000 in between the palm of the hands (like stoneage fire making) until glue comes off. Make one pass of #220. Just one to make it a little porrous. Same with the base of the tip.

Wrap a piece of paper on the ferrule and tape it. The end of the piece of paper should go past the ferrule, making it a guide. Put power glue and slide in the detatched tip. Take out the paper as soon as the glue adheres the tip and check the seating.

After 5 to 10 mins, tap your tip straight down on a cemented floor a few times.

That will do until you get a new tip.
 
Here are another "how to" from Newsgroup:
From: Larry Cusumano
Subject: Tip Replacement (a how to)
Newsgroups: rec.sport.billiard
Date: 1997/05/14
----------------------------------------------------------

Pool Cue Tip Replacement My Way

Since this a subject that comes up quite frequently in this news group, I hope this post will answer some questions.

First let me make one thing clear, this is my method, I don't claim it is by any means the only way or even the best way. I replace
approximately a half a dozen tips a week and this method has evolved over the last 3 or 4 years mostly through trial, error and
experimentation.

Tools you will need: Sharp knife; (X-acto, Swiss army, single edge razor blade). File; (flat or mill bastard wider then the tip) or medium to coarse emery board, (the thick kind, ask your wife or your honey). Emery cloth; (180, 320 & 600 grit) or sand paper (medium and extra fine), I prefer emery cloth. Tip clamp; or some method of holding the tip in place while the adhesive dries, (a piece of elastic or wide rubber band stretched over the tip and secured to the shaft with a couple small rubber bands works fine). Dremel tool; (optional but real handy). A vice; (optional).

Tip tools: (shaper, scuffer, tapper or shaver, etc.). I recommend the "Ulti-mate Tip Tool", it has two different size shaping surfaces, a tapper, two abrasive surfaces to true up mushroomed tips and a tip burnisher to harden and burnish the sides of the tip after it has been reshaped. This and any other specialty pool items can be purchased through, Mueller's sporting goods, (1-800-925-7665), (http://www.mueller-sporting-goods.com/) E-Mail, (msginfo@inetnebr.com) or your local billiard supply or pool hall.

There are lots of specialty tip replacing tools, most good ones are quite expensive and not necessary unless you plan to make this abusiness. Tip top sanders are inexpensive, unfortunately you get what you pay for. I find they create more problems than they solve. They clamp to the shaft therefore you have to protect the shaft from marring or denting, I used to use a piece of emery cloth, abrasive side out, wrapped four or five turns around the top of the shaft where the sander will be clamped. I also found they didn't sand the tip top level, but created a low spot closest to the clamp and a high spot furthest from the clamp. That can be remedied by rotating the shaft during sanding, I just found it a pain in the butt, mine not the cue's, so I rarely use it anymore.

Tips: I use Le-Pro tips for most cues, unless otherwise requested. Tweeten's "Elk Master" tips if a softer tip is requested and Triangle Tips for a harder tip. The choice is yours, no one well made tip is any better than any other tip. Tip performance has more to do with your shooting style and ability, and what you feel comfortable with. A softer tip in the hands of a novice to moderate player will probably give him or her a little more cue ball action and control, but they have to be replaced more often, on the other hand, the same tip in the hands of a super shooter may give way more cue ball action then is wanted.

Adhesive: The most commonly used, Tweeten's tip cement, contact cement, super adhesive for wood & leather, they're all satisfactory to one degree or another. However after trying many different types of adhesives, including epoxy over the years, I've come to rely on one product that works best for me. The adhesive I use is called "Weldbond". I prefer to let it dry overnight although it can be worked with in 2 or 3 hours. It can be found in almost any hardware store.

Method: Remove the old tip with your knife or razor blade, taking care not to nick or chip the ferrule, or yourself! A flat surface such as a cutting board is good here and not your sweeties vanity table. If you have a vice, clamp the shaft into it with about a 1/2" inch of the ferrule above the vice top, (you need some heavy protective material here to wrap around the shaft and protect it, I use a leather shaft burnisher or slicker and soft pine taped to the vice jaws). Once the tip is off, CAREFULLY scrap or shave any remaining leather or glue from the ferrule top and tenon (the exposed shaft top). Don't go digging into the ferrule top here, use an X-acto knife or straight edge knife and hold the blade edge level to ferrule top and the knife at a 45 degree angle.

When all or most of the old material is gone, switch to the file or emery board. Here again care is required, hold the file or emery board absolutely flat on the ferrule top and with short strokes carefully remove any remaining glue or leather residue.

If you have a Dremel type tool use the standard size drum sander to accomplish the same thing. Please be especially carefully not to mare the ferrule surface. Check to see that the surface is still level, use a file or emery board to correct any imperfections.

Tip Preparation: Remove the protective coating from the back of the tip by rubbing on 180 grit emery cloth or medium sandpaper in a circular motion, not to much pressure here, be careful not to round off the flat edges. Check the tip back, if the coating is gone from the edge but not the center take the emery board and using the end remove the coating from the center of the tip. I use the Dremel drum sander for this. If you choose to use a backed tip your ready to go. Place the tip on the ferrule and check to see that they match up properly, there should be no space between them. Holding them up to a light is a good way to check. This is less critical if you use Weldbond as your adhesive, since it will fill in small imperfections with out loss of strength.

Gluing: If you use Weldbond, place a small drop of glue on the tip back and ferrule, then spread the adhesive evenly over both surfaces. Allow the glue to set for a minute or two then put the pieces together applying enough pressure to squeeze out the excess glue, wipe with a paper towel. Tap the tip on the shaft once or twice, I just tap it on a hard surface, realign the tip and clamp in some fashion. If use a tip clamp be sure to protect the shaft in the manor described above for using tip top sanders. If possible let the tip dry overnight.

Tweeten Tip cement and contact cement are basically the same, cover both surfaces with a thin layer of cement and let dry for 5 to 10 minutes until the surfaces are tacky not dry, (if you touch the tip surface with a toothpick or match they should adhere enough to pick up the tip). Place the tip on the cue stick and press down firmly. Be careful with tip alignment here as these types of adhesives grip immediately and are difficult to realign. Tap the tip a few times on a hard surface to dislodge any air bubbles and get better tip adhesion. Remove any excess cement and clamp. Tweeten claims 10 minutes, I suggest 2-3 hours before shaping the tip.

Using Super glue or Krazy glue for wood and leather, place a drop on the cue stick surface then position the tip and press down firmly for about 20-30 seconds. There is no need for clamping. Wipe off any excess with a paper towel, if you get it on your fingers it comes off with nail polish remover. Unless of course you'd prefer to chew it off.

Shaping: Protect the ferrule with a couple of turns of masking tape or some such thing. If there is a large overhang, (oversized tip), place the tip business end down on a cutting board and trim the excess up to the thickness of the tape. Now take the emery board again and true up the tip sides. Hold the shaft horizontally and rotate it as you sand the sides until it is even all around. Proceed to shape the tip top in what ever manor you usually would. The emery board is handy in rounding the the sharp tip edge. If you have a vice handy the method I use to blend the tip and ferrule together is as follows. Clamp the cue in the vice horizontally with the tip pointed at you. Remove the masking tape from the ferrule, and starting with a 320 grit emery cloth, sand the tip and the ferrule together in the same motion you would use to shine a shoe. Using a rapid motion, after a dozen or so strokes rotate the shaft 1/4 turn and repeat until you've gone full circle. Once your satisfied the tip matches up with the ferrule all around then repeat the whole operation using 600 grit emery cloth to burnish the tip and the ferrule. (Note: Don't try this with sandpaper, you must use emery cloth or you may damage the ferrule).

Well that's it. You have finished, finally. OK, this may sound complicated but it is not. In fact while I have been writing this note I replaced two tips and a tip, plus ferrule on another cue stick. Not including glue drying the whole thing should take about 30min.

Good Luck;
LC

Larry Cusumano
HUDSON-WEST Cues & Accessories
Bayonne, NJ



__________________
Best days and sorry for my bad English.

Sergei Kharkov
 
Larry et al:

Thanks for the good information. Just an fyi and keeping in mind all the different ways to achieve the same goal, in trimming the tip overhang, I use the ULTIMATE TIP TOOL instead of the emory boards because it seems to work better.

The best retipping information I ever got was at this thread: covering the ferrule with tape. D*mn, that's awsome! Thanks.

Oh yes, the adhesive that I use is DURO SUPER GLUE GEL. Seems to work great. And the elapsed time from cutting off the old tip all the way to replacement and on to racking the balls is around 2 hours. So much for TWEETEN CEMENT.
 
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Puffs,
I've been doing my own & other's tips for over 25 yrs.I've NEVER had any tip come off any cue! This includes break cues. W/o a lathe you must be very careful and meticulous. You don't want to cut or sand the ferule. A carpet knife ( bloddy mary) works great for cutting/trimming tip.It's VERY sharp.Much sharper than any utility knife.W/o a lathe you must work very slowly & carefully to yield a near perfect job.
I made my own simple lathe. Mitch San Diego
 
I would suggest you don't...

Here are a couple of scenarios...

1) you'd like to replace your own tips. The expense of getting a small lathe or cue repair lathe just isn't worth it. Any non-lathe method isn't going to turn out as well, bite the bullet and the every six months or so you need to change tips, pay the $20 or $25 a professional installer charges to do it on a lathe.

2) You want to change tips as a service whether it be for just friends and locals or in general to make some money on the side. Doing em' by hand will not give you the kind of quality you should have. Buy a small cue repair lathe, or even a mini lathe. I used a $500 7x10 lathe I got from harbor freight that worked great for doing ferule, tip replacement work. The pass through on the spindle was plenty big enough for a shaft.

buy a couple of shaft collets from one of the cue makers or make your own on the lathe and you'll be set.

Can a tip be done by hand? Yes, will it be done as well as on a lathe? Not without spending God tons of time on it.

Jaden
 
Lathes

Ernest, grab the latest issue of "Inside Pool". In it, there's an article on tip replacement by Mr. Buss, the cue maker. I think the article is under his monthly contibution called "The Buss Stops". Anyway, he descibes an on the fly method with no special tools req'd. Best though, to have someone do it on a lathe...

BTW Blud, does your repair lathe have similarities to the Porper model, ie is it portable?


I own 2 cue repair lathes, one from cue man billiards Chris Hightower,
Cant say enough good about Chris he is just a very honest and solid people.

2nd cue repair lathe is mid American cue lathes By another AZB member TSP.
Todd is another very honest and solid business person.

Both of these guys make lathes that can be carried around very easy.


One of the reasons that I own my own lathe is because I took a shaft to a pool hall that had a cue lathe and had them install a tip.

The shaft was 12.5 mm going in, when it came out it was 11.75 .
I didn't say a word, I sent my cue in and had 2 more shafts made for it .
And bought my own lathe,
Then I re tipped every bar cue I could find that the owner of the bar was willing to pay for the repairs.
I re placed about 120 tips in 2 weeks which paid for my lathe and forced me into learning how to replace a tip without screwing up the ferrule or the shaft.

My only regrets was that the first lathe I bought had the small spindle bore ID..

I have up graded to the large bore spindle.
 
I own 2 cue repair lathes, one from cue man billiards Chris Hightower,
Cant say enough good about Chris he is just a very honest and solid people.

2nd cue repair lathe is mid American cue lathes By another AZB member TSP.
Todd is another very honest and solid business person.

Both of these guys make lathes that can be carried around very easy.


One of the reasons that I own my own lathe is because I took a shaft to a pool hall that had a cue lathe and had them install a tip.

The shaft was 12.5 mm going in, when it came out it was 11.75 .
I didn't say a word, I sent my cue in and had 2 more shafts made for it .
And bought my own lathe,
Then I re tipped every bar cue I could find that the owner of the bar was willing to pay for the repairs.
I re placed about 120 tips in 2 weeks which paid for my lathe and forced me into learning how to replace a tip without screwing up the ferrule or the shaft.

My only regrets was that the first lathe I bought had the small spindle bore ID..

I have up graded to the large bore spindle.
A lathe is nice, especially if you can make up the cost by retipping cues for pool halls and players, but a lathe (even a cheap one...) is still a very expensive way to go about retipping a cue. You also need the space to the lathe and the mess it creates.
I`m considering buying a cheap lathe as I do some retipping for friends and the pool hall where i play, but I`m still undecided du to the price and space problems.
Right now i use some sharp Japanese hand tools and a porper ferrule sander. If the knife is sharp enought and your patietnt and carefull, you will get results rivaling what can be done on a lathe, the total cost for all you need is less than $50
 
any idiot can do a great job. super glue the tip on. then hold the shaft tip down straight up and use a razor blade and from the ferrel down cut off whatever hangs over a little at a time.

then take a piece of sandpaper and hold it in a U shape and proceed up and down the tip at a slight angle to make the tip how you want it.
 
Re tipping a cue

A lathe is nice, especially if you can make up the cost by retipping cues for pool halls and players, but a lathe (even a cheap one...) is still a very expensive way to go about retipping a cue. You also need the space to the lathe and the mess it creates.
I`m considering buying a cheap lathe as I do some retipping for friends and the pool hall where i play, but I`m still undecided du to the price and space problems.
Right now i use some sharp Japanese hand tools and a porper ferrule sander. If the knife is sharp enought and your patietnt and carefull, you will get results rivaling what can be done on a lathe, the total cost for all you need is less than $50


I have always made money with my lathes when I have wanted to.....
Yes it can be a big investment, Lathes are like anything else, apply yourself and you can make a few bucks.

You guys can do your tips any way you want, I use a lathe, and it works better then anything else I have tried.
 
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