Tip shape and size

C

Catalin

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I recently revisited the article about the tip size and shape available here : https://billiards.colostate.edu/faq/cue-tip/size-and-shape/

I noticed that in all of the diagrams, the cue tip is perfectly level (parallel with the table surface) at contact. Take a draw shot in real life, there is pretty much always an angle, sometimes quite steep. In that case the postulated 60° of arc might not be enough, and the miscues will likely happen at less distance from the center if the tip is not rounded enough.

Also most if not all circular tip shapers in the market have these two flaws in my experience:
1. The diameter of the indent may be correct, but the indent is often pretty shallow so you will not get the needed 60° of arc on your tip.
2. A freshly shaped tip using a standard nickel or dîme shaper will have a rather linear (straight) slope with a pointy middle, looking more like a cone than the arc of a circle.

Topic for conversation: how would you design the perfect shaper of a given radius to adress these shortcomings?
 
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I use the old school shaper. I feel I get it done better.
garczar said:
i use an old-school tweetens(https://www.amazon.com/Tweeten-billiard-Trimmer-Scuffer-Sandpaper/dp/B074DM4F5P) shaper to get a good dime shape and then use a dime radius Willards for occasional re-shape. that's it.
Click to expand...
Yup. Here's a little trick I did with mine….

If it isn't quite the shape you want, take a roll of dimes, (I prefer a penny shape) Place them in the tool and heat it up with a heat gun. Just enough to make it pliable. You can customize It to whatever shape you want. You can use a dowel rod if you like.
 
Catalin said:
I noticed that in all of the diagrams, the cue tip is perfectly level (parallel with the table surface) at contact. Take a draw shot in real life, there is pretty much always an angle, sometimes quite steep. In that case the postulated 60° of arc might not be enough, and the miscues will likely happen at less distance from the center if the tip is not rounded enough.
Click to expand...
But the cue stick and the CB’s “equator” both tilt together, so the tip and its 60 degrees of arc reach the raised miscue limit* as usual.

*The miscue limit is always defined by where the cue points in relation to the OB’s 3D center (1/2 way from 3D center to 3D edge).

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson said:
But the cue stick and the CB’s “equator” both tilt together, so the tip and its 60 degrees of arc reach the raised miscue limit* as usual.

*The miscue limit is always defined as where the cue points in relation to the OB’s 3D center (1/2 way from 3D center to 3D edge).

pj
chgo
Click to expand...
PJ, I don't think that's true. Try the following experiment : Find the furthest point from the center where you can play a follow shot with a level cue. Now lower your bridge hand and try to contact the same point aiming up. The tip will glance off the cue ball. You will need to hit closer to the center to avoid miscuing. With a draw shot it is worse because you have a higher résistance to overcome.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
 
Catalin said:
Find the furthest point from the center where you can play a follow shot with a level cue. Now lower your bridge hand and try to contact the same point aiming up.
Click to expand...
Then you’re trying to contact the CB above the miscue limit, which shifts down as you tilt the cue upward. You get the same amount of maximum spin by hitting the tilted miscue limit with a tilted cue as you get by hitting the untilted miscue limit with an untilted cue.

This is a broadly known fact.

pj
chgo

P.S. Another way to view the miscue limit: the distance from CB center where the CB's surface tilts 30 degrees away from the stick's angle of attack. Maybe it's easier to see how this point changes with the angle of the stick.
 
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I agree that would hold true if the ball was suspended in a vacuum and could travel freely in any direction. But it can only move in one plane - the table, and that physical plane interferes with the usable angles. That has to be taken into account. There is also the question of having a comfortable stroke and the contact points that you are used to.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
 
Patrick Johnson said:
But the cue stick and the CB’s “equator” both tilt together, so the tip and its 60 degrees of arc reach the raised miscue limit* as usual.
Click to expand...

Here's an illustration from the cue elevation effects resource page related to this effect:

tip_offset.jpg
 
Catalin, Howdy;

Sorry if I didn't hit the meat of your original post. I just went with the 3rd. para.
and responded as such. By-the-way, I've not had a "pointy middle" as you put it.
Perhaps you are not using your devise correctly.

hank
 
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I have a 3" piece from a broken mill file that I use to dress my tip. The shaper used in the manner of a pencil sharpener is not my style. Even a radiused shaper can be used in the same manner as applying chalk. Gently apply the file and rotate the cue. Once my radius is set initially the careful application of the Triangle chalk will maintain the radius. Chalk is an abrasive.
Wallowing the tip into the cube of chalk is a tell.
 
If your interested there are specific non traditional cue tip shapes that resolve specific limitations in traditional cue tip shapes.
 
Catalin said:
The discussion was not about a specific tool. However Willard has tye problem that o mentioned, it is somewhat conical and the tip will come out pointy not with a constant arc.

Sent from my SM-G781B using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
A properly shaped tip is spherical, nothing linear or conical about it.
 
Tip Diameters vary by personal taste from 11.5-13.5mm for most folks.

A Dime is 17.91mm
A Penny is 19.05mm
A Nickel is 21.21mm
A Quarter is 24.26mm

So the appearance of a "Dime" shape on a 11.5mm shaft will be different than it would be on a 13mm shaft.

Until you get to 17.91mm, a Dime will always have a transition point from the radius to the parallel point on the shaft. You can't change that.
 
Renegade_56 said:
A properly shaped tip is spherical, nothing linear or conical about it.
Click to expand...
Machined tips are spherical. Hand shaped tips have compound arcs. I get the best results with a cup shaper dead on, and a hand shaper on the horizontal circumference. IOW taking down the edge of the tip till it looks round.
 
Patrick Johnson said:
...you can't hit the CB where its surface tilts 30 degrees or more from the stick's angle of attack - in other words, at the 3D (tilted) miscue limit.
Click to expand...
Here's what that means. No matter how you angle the cue, the miscue limit is always halfway from center to edge as viewed from the cue stick's angle of approach because that's where the CB surface's slope reaches 30° from perpendicular to the cue.

pj
chgo

Miscue+Limit.png
 
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I know you're into the science big time.
I wish I could find the Semih Sayginer vid where he says....

I can hit the cue ball where nobody else can.

Maybe your illustration is not 1000% accurate.
Guess you need to ask Mr Sayginer.

You may be right with your Math but ????


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