Tips and Squirt

[ShootingArts]

I'm keeping up with several threads discussing shafts but a recent tip swap seemed to strongly indicate that the tip is a huge factor determining squirt.

Same shaft, same size tip, same dime radius. Going from a medium hard tip to a hard tip seemed to add a lot of squirt. It seemed that with a medium hit on moderate cut shots squirt was a much more important factor than spin in determining where the cueball contacted the object ball. It also seemed that a fairly modest change in tip hardness resulted in a fairly dramatic change in squirt playing with a very "springy" shaft. This is a 12.5mm laminated shaft with about eighteen inches of pro taper.

Early to say but it seems like I made a bad trade when I increased spin a bit, rail first shots show increased angle coming off the rail, and seem to have increased squirt quite a bit more than spin.

These are my thoughts after admittedly very brief testing of the new tip, a few racks. I'm just using this as an example and starting point really hoping for some discussion of tips and squirt. Has anyone done testing isolating the tip and testing tips of the same size and shape on the same shaft with the only difference being tip hardness?

Hu

 

[McChen]

i wonder if the weight of the tip, not the hardness is what is causing it. the end mass of the cue is the biggest factor for determining the amount of squirt, so perhaps such an experiment would have to keep the tip weights the same by adjusting the height of the tips as necessary. harder tips would be more dense, so probably a bit heavier, leading to increased squirt. it seems to me though, that this difference in mass would be so small that it would not make a noticeable difference in squirt.

 

[mailman]

Tip Height/Depth

... keep the tip weights the same by adjusting the height of the tips ...

Watch your tip height, also. Regardless of tip weight, the greater the tip height/depth, the more the tip compresses, casting/deflecting the cueball off, in respect to an ever-increasing tip height/depth, at an ever-increasing angle away from the line of stroke. On progressively smaller shaft diameters, this becomes progressively more critical.

One of the cuemakers here on AZ says he likes to keep his tip heights/depths about, but certainly not less than, 1/3 of the diameter of the shaft -- this is measured from the point of the SHAPED tip to its base. I find somewhere between 1/3 - 1/2 is reasonable for most of my own tips (personal preference), with 3/8 being about right.

 

[ShootingArts]

thanks for some good thoughts

I appreciate both posts and will have to give them more thought. Unfortunately I am leaving out for Dallas in a few hours and am unsure of my computer access for the next week. I'll revive this thread when I return unless others run with it in the meantime.

Thanks for the replies,
Hu

 

[Stan9]

My 1.5 cents

For the same strength applied to the stroke, harder tips transmit more energy to the cue ball, which increases the speed of the CB and reduces the curve-back effect as the CB travels towards to OB.

Unless you are stroking smooth and slow, harder tips tend to have impart less spin than softer tips, which also reduces the curve-back effect.

Stroke slow and follow through smoothly and the difference in squirt will be less noticeable. You will be putting more spin on the CB because of increased contact time and the curve-back effect will negate the initial squirt. That i think is the real benefit of the hard tips - less strength required to move the ball around and great feel, but you do need to have a good stroke.

 

[Handsumm]

i wonder if the weight of the tip, not the hardness is what is causing it. the end mass of the cue is the biggest factor for determining the amount of squirt, so perhaps such an experiment would have to keep the tip weights the same by adjusting the height of the tips as necessary. harder tips would be more dense, so probably a bit heavier, leading to increased squirt. it seems to me though, that this difference in mass would be so small that it would not make a noticeable difference in squirt.

The weight would be extremely negligible. The harder the tip, the less it compresses (as previously stated) so the shaft wants to push the cueball to the side more than a tip that compresses, and grabs, more easily.

Example...try using a lot of side with an extremly hard tip (like phenolic) and you will notice the squirt is significant.