Tips for Students of CTE

[LAMas]

gordml,
I opened your word doc and I now get it:

1 L 1/8 R = Left edge of the CB aimed at the right 1/8 of the OB, shift 1/2 tip to the left of center of CB and pivot right to the center of the CB.

Shots 4, 5 and 6 are the same but achieve different cut angles? Are you making some slight adjustments?
4 L C L
5 L C L
6 L C L

Shots 12 and 13 are also the same.
12 R A R
13 R A R

The distance between the CB and OB makes a difference and why I liked that you put the CBs on an arc in your first excercise that made the distance between the CB and OB the same or 25 inches (2 spots on a 9 foot table).

I duplicated your first excercise in Acad but put the CBs 10 degrees in between to the next CB etc. - close to what you placed in your excercise.

I am still interested in the results of your first excercise i.e., 1 L A L etc. as you did in your second excercise.

I don't know where this is taking me/us but to normalize the results, can you put the 15 balls on an arc of 25 inches (2 spots) in your second excercise to see if the results change - perhaps fewer duplications?

Do you stroke your cue below a dominant eye or in between both eyes below the center of your chin?

Thanks in advance...have fun.:wink:

 

[AtLarge]

gordml -- If I understand you correctly, you are shooting all 15 shots into the upper-left corner pocket, correct? You could do it either of the following ways: (1) Shoot the CB into that pocket with each numbered OB in the spot shown on your graphic (which would mean retrieving the CB from the pocket each time) or (2) Place each numbered OB on the footspot and shoot it with the CB placed where the numbered ball is on your graphic (I think this is the way you indicated to do it).

If I have that correct, then I think you have a problem with the shot nomenclature. To me, and to mohrt on the shot worksheet from the DVD, the three components for a shot are as follows:

- The first component is the side of the OB for the center-to-edge line. So for a cut to the left, the indicator is "R," because the CTEL goes from the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB. For a cut to the right, the indicator is "L."
- The second component is the point on the OB for the secondary alignment line, which runs to that point from the inside edge of the CB (the edge closer to the target). "A" is 1/4-ball width from the left edge of the OB, "B" is center OB, and "C" is 1/4-ball width from the right edge of the OB.
- The third component is for the pre-pivot offset, so "L" means the stick is offset 1/2-tip to the left of center CB and then the tip is pivoted from left to right to get to center CB.​

Example: L/C/R means CTEL to Left side of OB, right edge of CB to point C, and stick offset 1/2-tip to Right of center prior to pivot. This is a cut to the right.

I think you may also have a misunderstanding on the use of the 1/8 alignment. For these shots, there is no center-to-edge visual, because it would be off the OB into space. Instead, Stan uses a single alignment line or visual, which is to align the 1/8th point on the CB with the opposite 1/8th point on the OB, offset 1/2-tip to one side or the other, pivot, and shoot.

So ........... to be consistent with prior shot descriptions, and with Stan, I think you would need to change your three-component descriptions for each shot. And you might also need to change your visuals for thin shots (to use 1/8 to 1/8 rather than edge to 1/8).

 

[gordml]

gordml,


Shots 4, 5 and 6 are the same but achieve different cut angles? Are you making some slight adjustments?
4 L C L
5 L C L
6 L C L

No adjustments.
I know that's confusing.
Each shot is L C L , but the cue ball is in a different place so its a different shot.
Its weird - but it seems to work......

I used to align with my right dominant eye, but a few years ago I switched
to using both eyes.Its a personal preference and I think its irrelevant for CTE
Ill try my circle exercise later.

 

[gordml]

gordml -- If I understand you correctly, you are shooting all 15 shots into the upper-left corner pocket, correct? You could do it either of the following ways: (1) Shoot the CB into that pocket with each numbered OB in the spot shown on your graphic (which would mean retrieving the CB from the pocket each time) or (2) Place each numbered OB on the footspot and shoot it with the CB placed where the numbered ball is on your graphic (I think this is the way you indicated to do it).

If I have that correct, then I think you have a problem with the shot nomenclature. To me, and to mohrt on the shot worksheet from the DVD, the three components for a shot are as follows:

- The first component is the side of the OB for the center-to-edge line. So for a cut to the left, the indicator is "R," because the CTEL goes from the center of the CB to the right edge of the OB. For a cut to the right, the indicator is "L."
- The second component is the point on the OB for the secondary alignment line, which runs to that point from the inside edge of the CB (the edge closer to the target). "A" is 1/4-ball width from the left edge of the OB, "B" is center OB, and "C" is 1/4-ball width from the right edge of the OB.
- The third component is for the pre-pivot offset, so "L" means the stick is offset 1/2-tip to the left of center CB and then the tip is pivoted from left to right to get to center CB.​

Example: L/C/R means CTEL to Left side of OB, right edge of CB to point C, and stick offset 1/2-tip to Right of center prior to pivot. This is a cut to the right.

I think you may also have a misunderstanding on the use of the 1/8 alignment. For these shots, there is no center-to-edge visual, because it would be off the OB into space. Instead, Stan uses a single alignment line or visual, which is to overlap 1/8 of the CB with the opposite 1/8 of the OB, offset 1/2-tip to one side or the other, pivot, and shoot.

So ........... to be consistent with prior shot descriptions, and with Stan, I think you would need to change your three-component descriptions for each shot. And you might also need to change your visuals for thin shots (to use 1/8 to 1/8 rather than edge to 1/8).

I agree on both points.
I have reversed the L's and the R's in the first column. and for 1/8 shots there is no CCB to ROBE.
was able to edit post #100 . Sorry about the discrepency
Thank You.

 

[pablocruz]

Ok after reading some feedback from LAmas and AtLarge, I went back to the table to see if I could come up with an exercise
more consistent and objective, and one which we could all replicate easily.

I decided the best thing to do is get rid of the circle and just line the balls up from the second diamond to the centre of the table.

The one ball i tried to keep off the rail as much as possible but there is an exact straight line to the centre where the 15 is.
When lined up all balls are frozen to each other

I made 15 small marks with a piece of chalk.
So I had 15 shots placing my CB on each mark and shooting the OB on the spot.

CueTable Help

This chart shows the offsets used for each shot. Its too bad I couldn't put spaces in between the values -so I attached a Word version for easier readability.


Shot CTEL OB Pos. Pivot
1 1/8 1/8 R
2 1/8 1/8 L
3 R C R
4 R C L
5 R C L
6 R C L
7 L C R
8 L C L
9 L B R
10 L B L
11 L B R
12 L A R
13 L A R
14 1/8 1/8 R
15 1/8 1/8 L


Anyway I was very pleased.
I found that I could align the CTE with the correct OB Position pretty
easily and that it was obvious.
Also my confidence was unusually high in making the shots. I really started to feel strong and remembered Stan's ref to "Lock and Load".On some I felt like a Larry Nevel and was firing them in!
I also started to see a pattern - if the shot looked too thin I would pivot from the outside/in to "thicken" the shot. If it looked too thick I would pivot in/out to cut it thinner.
example:
both shot 3 and 4 are aligned OBP = C.
3 looked too thin so I pivot right.
4 looked too thick so I pivot left.

Im not exactly sure about the last point as Stan never mentioned
you pivot to compensate - its just that when I was studying the chart
this is how it looks.

Id appreciate anyone else trying this exercise just to see what OBP and pivot is used with other shooters :thumbup:
Thanks
Gordon
P.S. ..and no Larry I'm not ready to play you yet.

You're Word document doesn't match your post! And how do
you come up with a Left A and a left C?? And what does OBP
stand for? This would be all too confusing for someone new at
CTE/Pro-One!! Wouldn't it make it easier for all if everyone stuck
to Stan's version?

 

[JE54]

Does anybody once they see the correct ctel, put their foot in a certain spot so that each time they have the correct ctel their body is always in the same position ?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

AtLarge:
I think you may also have a misunderstanding on the use of the 1/8 alignment. For these shots, there is no center-to-edge visual, because it would be off the OB into space.

What does this mean? How can a CTE visual be off the OB?

pj
chgo

 

[daphish1]

I think you missed the part of the post where he said "there is no center-to-edge visual" and the other part where it said "you may also have a misunderstanding on the use of the 1/8 alignment"

 

[pablocruz]

I think you missed the part of the post where he said "there is no center-to-edge visual" and the other part where it said "you may also have a misunderstanding on the use of the 1/8 alignment"

Of course he did!! He knows no other way than to take things out of context!!

 

[Patrick Johnson]

AtLarge:
I think you may also have a misunderstanding on the use of the 1/8 alignment. For these shots, there is no center-to-edge visual, because it would be off the OB into space.

Me:
What does this mean? How can a CTE visual be off the OB?

daphish1:
I think you missed the part of the post where he said "there is no center-to-edge visual"

I think you missed the part where he said the CTE visual "would be off the OB".

If the CTE "visual" could even theoretically "be off the OB", then the CTE visual isn't the CTE line - and that difference applies to every other shot.

pj
chgo

 

[daphish1]

I think you missed the part where he said the CTE visual "would be off the OB".

If the CTE "visual" could even theoretically "be off the OB", then the CTE visual isn't the CTE line - and that difference applies to every other shot.

pj
chgo

In my example below, talking about a cut to the left.

The thinner cut visuals for standard CTE are center of cue ball to the edge of the object ball and aim point B. So if you take those same visual lines and tried to move them to 1/8 ball cut then the CTE of the cue ball would be off the ball. There aren't any CTE visuals for a left cut using aim point C or the 1/8.

This is how I understand it, I’ve only been using CTE/PRO1 for a few weeks so some more experienced might better explain it or correct me if I’m wrong.

It’d be something like this:

 

[Patrick Johnson]

In my example below, talking about a cut to the left.

The thinner cut visuals for standard CTE are center of cue ball to the edge of the object ball and aim point B. So if you take those same visual lines and tried to move them to 1/8 ball cut then the CTE of the cue ball would be off the ball. There aren't any CTE visuals for a left cut using aim point C or the 1/8.

This is how I understand it, I’ve only been using CTE/PRO1 for a few weeks so some more experienced might better explain it or correct me if I’m wrong.

It’d be something like this:

You remember that CTE stands for Center-to-Edge, right? The CTE line is the line from the CB's center to the OB's edge.

Why would the CTE "visual" be the CTE line for both aimpoints A & B, but suddenly change for aimpoint 1/8?

How does it make any sense for any CTE "visual" to be anything but the CTE line?

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

..................

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Classic example of nothing more than a nitpicker. You have stated many times that you have no desire to even try the system. So, your only goal in all of this is to see what you can nitpick in someones wording to TRY and discredit the system. You read every post with that soley in mind, "how can I nitpick this?". Really pretty petty and pathetic Patrick.

In other words, you can't answer the question.

Thanks for your input, Neil.

pj
chgo

 

[Neil]

...............

 

[daphish1]

You remember that CTE stands for Center-to-Edge, right? The CTE line is the line from the CB's center to the OB's edge.

Why would the CTE "visual" be the CTE line for both aimpoints A & B, but suddenly change for aimpoint 1/8?

How does it make any sense for any CTE "visual" to be anything but the CTE line?

pj
chgo

Would it help you if I edited my post and took the letters CTE out and replaced them with PRO1 (since that's what I use). Then maybe your confusion will go away?

In PRO1 for 1/8 cut there is NO CTE line used.

 

[SpiderWebComm]

There are a few ways to accomplish the same thing--- in lieu of 1/8th on the thin side, you can sight B and pivot away from the pocket, past center, to the opposite side of the CB.

 

[JoeyA]

Would it help you if I edited my post and took the letters CTE out and replaced them with PRO1 (since that's what I use). Then maybe your confusion will go away?

In PRO1 for 1/8 cut there is NO CTE line used.

Patrick and his gang of naysayers are losing their grip in more ways than one.

You are quite correct about the 1/8 ball shots not having a CTE perspective because those shots are the exception.

Patrick is purposefully trying to confuse people about CTE/Pro One. He wants to squeeze his quasi-feel business that he has made up in his head to discredit CTE/Pro One, but he continues to lose ground everyday.

JoeyA

 

[Patrick Johnson]

The "system" is named Center To Edge. That does not mean that every shot in the system is center to edge. Real thin cuts are the exception.

What does it mean to say a shot "is center to edge"?

On his DVD Stan says the same thing AtLarge did: "the CTE visual is off the OB" for thin cuts. In fact, he says that's the reason for using the 1/8 aim point. So once again, how can a "CTE visual" be "off the OB"? You can choose to use it or not, but it's never "off the OB" - unless "CTE visual" means something other than "CTE line". Does it mean something different for every shot?

But, you already knew that, and just want to be a dick.
And, it's not that I couldn't answer it, as I just did.

You tried to be a dick (successfully) and then tried to answer (unsuccessfully).

pj
chgo

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Would it help you if I edited my post and took the letters CTE out and replaced them with PRO1 (since that's what I use). Then maybe your confusion will go away?

In PRO1 for 1/8 cut there is NO CTE line used.

I don't believe I'm the one who's confused. My questions are clear and concise. I haven't seen any answers yet that fit that description.

pj
chgo