to all you apa bashers...and all league haters also

SmoothStroke

Swim for the win.
Silver Member
Bisbee..esque tournament fishing is not 'just fishing' imho. lol

Was it a typo? Did you mean to write...'Imagine it's just fishing'?

1/2 day boats, and the sculpin and sandbass and barracuda and the 'boat ride'/'wind em up..lets work back and try to find a better spot'/'we'll keep the galley open on the ride back..take care of your tab' is a maybe a more apt description of 'just fishing'.

Do the reels cost more than many pro pool tournaments pay for first?

Nice recreation, if you can swing it.:eek::eek:

Enjoy.

HaHA...I can't use spell check properly, but I can use chart plotters pretty well.
Sounds like you have experience on the water.
The link is on the high end of events. As you may know there are many small events every week around the world.

The small events go anywhere from a few K to over 100K, with many being in the 25 to 75 K plus the calcuttas
Anyway, the difference in prize money for pool and fishing is incredible.Both are boring to watch.

Tell people you play pool, you get that look, or,,,,Oh that's nice
Tell people you fish.. they think you are sitting on a pond with a staw hat and a corn cob pipe.

Oh.... I forgot, this was about leagues. To each thy own. As long as people are playing pool that is great.
For me, I don't even walk in a place where a league is going on, if I should I am out of there in 10 minutes.
Have a great day
 

krupa

The Dream Operator
Silver Member
I have a confession to make. I'm now part of one of the things I dislike so much about league.
I just moved to a new area of the country and, of course, someone asked me to play on their league team and wanted me to dump. I've never done it before but decided to see what would happen just out of morbid curiosity. I sandbagged an entire session and now I'm successfully WAY underrated.
Last night was the first night of the new session and el capitan says I can play however I want now so I went 4-0 and only missed 1 ball last night. People were, as expected, none too happy about this.
I deserve any flak anyone wants to send my way and I know it so I was not at all offended by the comments and dirty looks. I deserve it. I just tried to be as nice and polite as I could to everyone.
Long story short, now that I'm in the league all underrated and my team didn't drop me last session, I'm curious to see how this pans out.
I really don't get the whole dump for league mentality. I can't see what I'm going to gain from it. I guess this is my attempt to see what all the fuss is about. All I know right now is I don't feel too good about myself and if we win anything as a team from here on out, it won't mean anything to me.
My team captain knows I won't be dumping from here on out so we'll see what happens.
It just sucks that I can't seem to find a team to play on where people don't want me to dump. Any thoughts on this? I know a lot of people say sandbagging doesn't run rampant in their area, but I've lived in ten different states and from what I've seen it's a problem everywhere I've been.
I think the league experience would attract more serious players if people would just play how they can.

If your only option is APA then you may have a problem. The 23 rule tends to indirectly encourage people to dump to SL's low to keep teams together. Also, the scoring makes it easier to keep an SL low as well. Yes, when it is done correctly and the player is honest about whether he really tried to pocket a ball or not, then it all works. But it's very easy to play safe while appearing to make a valid attempt at pocketing the ball.

I digress...

I don't know if it's league-wide but my NAPA division is a "No-Limit" league so there is no restriction on who plays on a given night. If you play 3 100-ranked players so be it.

Also skill levels are adjusted every week: you win you go up, you lose you go down. So you can sandbag, but you can't do it without losing your match.
 

cluelesscuer

New member
Also, it doesn't really matter if you win your match...If you want to, you can pretty easily get (I won't use the word 'earn') a citywide spot summer and then just tank the rest of the sessions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

justadub

Rattling corners nightly
Silver Member
Also, it doesn't really matter if you win your match...If you want to, you can pretty easily get (I won't use the word 'earn') a citywide spot summer and then just tank the rest of the sessions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wish it were that easy here....

We had 13 teams for the summer session, with 6 or 7 teams in contention for the top three spots. Top 3 plus one wild card is the way we get into the playoffs here.

Then we have to win our bracket at Tri Cup, three matches in a row, to go to states and try for Vegas (another three matches in a row deal).

Not easily done here.
 

Willi Makaball

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
APA, great venue for new players

I have played APA and had a great time, Think its a good way to get new players and has helped pool in many ways,
Although I must say my experience was dulled by the constant complaining from other team mates, that they had been playing 3-4 years and were just being rated a 7, and Why was I (me) being rated as a 9?
Well I didnt know why either except that I never lost a game, and could clearly see the others were not up to my speed.
What was a real kick was that we took 2nd for the county, and were headed to Vegas, Then the lights went out, I was told they were not going to take me and I would need to find a new team next year.
I was floored, and to say the least a bit hurt about the regection.
I never had any troble, got along with all, tried to help when I could, but the being kicked off really left a bad taste.
I didnt play any league since, and a few years ago tried TAP, and my rating in APA was no fluke, I want to a & in TAP and took the division.
Now I mostly just shoot balls , no competion, just go have some fun, but dont think Ill ever get involed in APA again, as the poster said , it gets new player involved.
 

StuartTKelley

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have played APA and had a great time, Think its a good way to get new players and has helped pool in many ways,
Although I must say my experience was dulled by the constant complaining from other team mates, that they had been playing 3-4 years and were just being rated a 7, and Why was I (me) being rated as a 9?
Well I didnt know why either except that I never lost a game, and could clearly see the others were not up to my speed.
What was a real kick was that we took 2nd for the county, and were headed to Vegas, Then the lights went out, I was told they were not going to take me and I would need to find a new team next year.
I was floored, and to say the least a bit hurt about the regection.
I never had any troble, got along with all, tried to help when I could, but the being kicked off really left a bad taste.
I didnt play any league since, and a few years ago tried TAP, and my rating in APA was no fluke, I want to a & in TAP and took the division.
Now I mostly just shoot balls , no competion, just go have some fun, but dont think Ill ever get involed in APA again, as the poster said , it gets new player involved.

I understand your frustration. It is difficult for a team to have a balance with a 9 on the roster. Obviously you want someone on your level that's consistently winning for the team but the other side of the coin with the 23 rule is it doesn't leave a lot of room for any middle or higher rated player to play...which means in order to win, the team has to have strong players at the low end and "strong and low end" doesn't last long from what I've seen..so in order for those low ranked players to win too that means they get evaluated and moved up....which sucks for the whole team because you can't win with the dynamic you started with... So having a 9 is great and tough at the same time. At least from what I've seen. We all know that APA isn't about the higher ranked players so the better you get, the more you're punished for it. And, yes, I hate that too. I moved to an 8 for a while and now back to a 7 in 9ball...definitely happier there but still has it's frustrations.
 

alstl

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have a confession to make. I'm now part of one of the things I dislike so much about league.
I just moved to a new area of the country and, of course, someone asked me to play on their league team and wanted me to dump. I've never done it before but decided to see what would happen just out of morbid curiosity. I sandbagged an entire session and now I'm successfully WAY underrated.
Last night was the first night of the new session and el capitan says I can play however I want now so I went 4-0 and only missed 1 ball last night. People were, as expected, none too happy about this.
I deserve any flak anyone wants to send my way and I know it so I was not at all offended by the comments and dirty looks. I deserve it. I just tried to be as nice and polite as I could to everyone.
Long story short, now that I'm in the league all underrated and my team didn't drop me last session, I'm curious to see how this pans out.
I really don't get the whole dump for league mentality. I can't see what I'm going to gain from it. I guess this is my attempt to see what all the fuss is about. All I know right now is I don't feel too good about myself and if we win anything as a team from here on out, it won't mean anything to me.
My team captain knows I won't be dumping from here on out so we'll see what happens.
It just sucks that I can't seem to find a team to play on where people don't want me to dump. Any thoughts on this? I know a lot of people say sandbagging doesn't run rampant in their area, but I've lived in ten different states and from what I've seen it's a problem everywhere I've been.
I think the league experience would attract more serious players if people would just play how they can.

All or most competent players have reached the point where they either lose or become rated too high for their team to be able to use them.

For me, it would be extremely boring and a waste of an evening to spend it in a bar or pool hall deliberately losing. Maybe because I don't drink and don't go to bars but I couldn't convince myself to lose on purpose.

The big reward is what, I get to go to Vegas? I'm 2 hours away from both Kansas City and St Louis with flights leaving daily for Vegas. If I want to go to Vegas I can be there tomorrow without spending several boring nights in a bar dumping at pool.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I understand your frustration. It is difficult for a team to have a balance with a 9 on the roster. Obviously you want someone on your level that's consistently winning for the team but the other side of the coin with the 23 rule is it doesn't leave a lot of room for any middle or higher rated player to play...which means in order to win, the team has to have strong players at the low end and "strong and low end" doesn't last long from what I've seen..so in order for those low ranked players to win too that means they get evaluated and moved up....which sucks for the whole team because you can't win with the dynamic you started with... So having a 9 is great and tough at the same time. At least from what I've seen. We all know that APA isn't about the higher ranked players so the better you get, the more you're punished for it. And, yes, I hate that too. I moved to an 8 for a while and now back to a 7 in 9ball...definitely happier there but still has it's frustrations.

Never played on 9 ball league, but Im having a hard time figuring out that one too. The top handicap in 8 ball is a seven and the team limit is 23. The top handicap in 9 ball is nine and the team limit is still 23. Doesn't make any sense to me either.
 

one stroke

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Never played on 9 ball league, but Im having a hard time figuring out that one too. The top handicap in 8 ball is a seven and the team limit is 23. The top handicap in 9 ball is nine and the team limit is still 23. Doesn't make any sense to me either.

You can have 1s in 9 ball and not all 7s in 8ball make it to 9 , in 9 ball


1
 

NitPicker

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Maybe we've identified the major issues about leagues for folks on both sides of the fence.

Seems like handicaps and sandbagging is a big issue. This to me comes from people that have progressed beyond "little league" but for whatever reason don't want to move on to "babe ruth", etc. Imagine 14, 15 and 16 yr old kids hanging around in the league for 9-12 yr olds. It will never work and those younger kids will get discouraged, whiny and gradually lose interest in the game itself. And if they feel somewhat obligated to still play (like some may feel about their social/bar league), well then the mindset starts to resent everything and that's not conducive to any kind of cooperation. Sounds similar to what people experience in pool leagues, doesn't it?

I don't know about APA Masters or the details but that's obviously a league/tournament for more advanced players. There are also leagues and tournaments in most pool halls and these tend to gather a larger group of advanced and more serious players. They are less about the social aspect and are more about the competition and improvement. There's usually bigger pots for the winners so not that handicaps and sandbagging doesn't exist, but for the most part, everyone is going for the cash.

Ya see...there is indeed room for everyone in this game. So much in fact, that no one should have to criticize what others do or don't do.
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I have played APA and had a great time, Think its a good way to get new players and has helped pool in many ways,
Although I must say my experience was dulled by the constant complaining from other team mates, that they had been playing 3-4 years and were just being rated a 7, and Why was I (me) being rated as a 9?
Well I didnt know why either except that I never lost a game, and could clearly see the others were not up to my speed.
What was a real kick was that we took 2nd for the county, and were headed to Vegas, Then the lights went out, I was told they were not going to take me and I would need to find a new team next year.
I was floored, and to say the least a bit hurt about the regection.
I never had any troble, got along with all, tried to help when I could, but the being kicked off really left a bad taste.
I didnt play any league since, and a few years ago tried TAP, and my rating in APA was no fluke, I want to a & in TAP and took the division.
Now I mostly just shoot balls , no competion, just go have some fun, but dont think Ill ever get involed in APA again, as the poster said , it gets new player involved.

I assume you were talking about 9 ball league. Is there a masters division for 9 ball in your area? Sounds like you are perfect for it.
 

liakos

Banned
i just do not understand why so many people dis like the apa so much. you guys are always complaining about the apparent decline of pool but yet want to bash the most successful organization in introducing new players to our sport.

without this influx of new players apa brings in every year our sport would be worse off than it is today. your favorite term for these new players is " bangers"

well let me tell you about these " bangers ". thousands of them progress in skill level as time goes by . hence the common complaint about players going up and teams cant meet the 23 rule.

thousands of them buy pool cues and as time goes buy get more serious and progress to custom cues. thousands of them get more serious and start spending time practicing and help keep pool halls open.

quite a few times i have seen posts on here joking or complaining about encountering bangers. remarks about newbies encroaching upon " your precious space " by playing on a table near you. remarks about they did not know where the rack was or looking for where to put the quarters in on a 9 footer.

guys like you are what gives pool a bad name. whats wrong with taking a lil time from your precious practice time to embrace these bangers and take them under your wing teaching them a few techniques or proper pool etiquette ?

kinda funny how the better you play or the more serious you get you tend to look down your nose at people who are new at this game. i guess you all forget that you were bangers at one time ...unless you come out of your mothers womb with a cue in your hand shooting like svb .:rolleyes:

you want to play serious pool ? apa can accommodate you. join masters. its a race to 7 with no handicap. just show up and hope you got what it takes to play even with the best in town.

want to play on 9 footers ? play the us amateur. you gotta play damn near pro speed to have a chance finishing in the top 10.

no other organization out there offers a competitive environment for people who dont know how to a hold a cue properly all the way up to some one who is capable of running rack after rack.

you guys oughta be thankful there is sch an organization as apa instead of bashing it all the time.

My answer is pretty simple, sandbaggers! When it comes to teaching, I'm always there to show anyone anything anytime! But the league itself is BS! Maybe because I'm from the Rhode Island league (was) and the LO is a complete dick! But I hear nothing but "hey, keep your innings high" and "don't worry, just lose because we can't afford for you to go up"! If I've played against 40,different teams, I can say safely 5-6 of those teams played serious and at least 20 were baggers! The others, don't know!

Your post is a great post, but due to my experience, league sucks! It's all about missing balls, keeping your innings high, and losing! Who in there right mind wants to be a part of that?? Oohhhh oohhhh, I know, the sanbaggers that win the Vegas trip every year! It's funny how the same ones go time and time again;)
 

robsnotes4u

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My answer is pretty simple, sandbaggers! When it comes to teaching, I'm always there to show anyone anything anytime! But the league itself is BS! Maybe because I'm from the Rhode Island league (was) and the LO is a complete dick! But I hear nothing but "hey, keep your innings high" and "don't worry, just lose because we can't afford for you to go up"! If I've played against 40,different teams, I can say safely 5-6 of those teams played serious and at least 20 were baggers! The others, don't know!

Your post is a great post, but due to my experience, league sucks! It's all about missing balls, keeping your innings high, and losing! Who in there right mind wants to be a part of that?? Oohhhh oohhhh, I know, the sanbaggers that win the Vegas trip every year! It's funny how the same ones go time and time again;)

We don't have a problem with Sandbagging in our league, your rating catches up quick. Each game affects your rating. I have about 4000 games in the system. Every 8 ball game in league or tourneys are in the system. We have SVB, Justin Bergman, Jesse Engel, Plus many others who have played here and are in the system.

You can learn a little about it here http://www.fargobilliards.com/pool-tournaments/fargo-ratings/

Watch the youtube video at the bottom and if you a mathematical look at the .pdf link on the bottom
 

lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I assume you were talking about 9 ball league. Is there a masters division for 9 ball in your area? Sounds like you are perfect for it.

masters division is available in any area apa is located. it seems to me that a lot of people are not willing to play masters because they cannot handle the format.

its the toughest format of any league in my opinion. race to 7 even up...no handicapping involved. call shot...jump cues allowed.... push out allowed in 9 ball. no marking pockets in 8 ball.

it is a serious players league. usually only the best players in town that dont play in any handicapped leagues play masters. i played in it when i was only a 4 and got my ass handed to me more often than not but i did win a few here and there. i quit due to a conflict with work but plan on playing it again.

winner of lag chooses what game to start...8 or 9 ball. loser of lag gets to break 1st. race to 4 in that format and then switch over to the other game until one guy wins 7 racks.

in my opinion masters division is the closest you can get to playing a format like the pros due while playing in an amateur league.

i think a couple reasons masters is not more popular than it is are these.

1. people have the misconception if you play in masters and do well your handicap will go up if you play in handicapped divisions. that is false.

2. people are afraid to play in it because they cannot use the old " i lost to a sandbagger " excuse when they get their ass handed to them. :grin-square:

again i say no league out there comes as close to " big boy pool " as some of you out there like to call your " insert league here " as apa masters does.

bcapl is handicapped.
tap is handicapped.
napa is handicapped
valley is handicapped.
etc..etc..etc..

yes i do agree with some of you that dont like apa for various reasons. but just like i said in my op...apa has something for every one at all skill levels and really does not deserve the bashing that goes on in this forum.
 
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lorider

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
My answer is pretty simple, sandbaggers! When it comes to teaching, I'm always there to show anyone anything anytime! But the league itself is BS! Maybe because I'm from the Rhode Island league (was) and the LO is a complete dick! But I hear nothing but "hey, keep your innings high" and "don't worry, just lose because we can't afford for you to go up"! If I've played against 40,different teams, I can say safely 5-6 of those teams played serious and at least 20 were baggers! The others, don't know!

Your post is a great post, but due to my experience, league sucks! It's all about missing balls, keeping your innings high, and losing! Who in there right mind wants to be a part of that?? Oohhhh oohhhh, I know, the sanbaggers that win the Vegas trip every year! It's funny how the same ones go time and time again;)

i guess i and a few oters on here are lucky to have the lo's we do. it seems every ones experience is mostly due to the lo they have....not the national organization ...which proves my point.

my point is ..any local league experience can be good or bad based on how weel it is ran. i dont think the apa has a monopoly on bad lo's.

another point is...any time some one mentions apa....this thread is a perfect example you have post after post bashing it.

when a thread about a bcapl lo apparently not planning on paying for a team to go to nationals not much was said on here.

a thread about a bcapl lo substituting one player for an ineligible player on his personal team at the nationals....again ...not much is said on here.

a thread about a team of master players entering the open division at bcapl nationals... again not much is said on here.

yet those 3 letters ...apa ... causes a shitload of posts on here bashing the entire organization and lumping all its players as bangers....sandbaggers....drunks...cheaters etc etc etc.

why do people on here not say much when crap happens in other leagues but quick to point out the same crap in apa ?
 

buckshotshoey

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I'm kind of surprised there hasn't been more controversy over the newly implemented 3 pt system. But it does seem to be working as intended.
 
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