drivermaker
Banned
Joseph Cues said:
That's informative and good to know, and there was more to the article that I didn't copy. But what does it have to do with the crux of the debate (argument) between Silencer and Blud?
That's informative and good to know, and there was more to the article that I didn't copy. But what does it have to do with the crux of the debate (argument) between Silencer and Blud?
Nothing, but Buss's opinions are just that too.drivermaker said:
Silencer did not distinguish joint from pin though. Joint doesn't mean pin.
Btw, nothing is the gist imo.
Experts have opinions and if they think their opinions are all facts, then they need awakening. And if newbies think their opinions are facts, that is also a problem.
I'm a computer tech. If you think you know everything as a computer tech, you are in for a shock.
Joseph Cues said:
Some, maybe, but not all of them. I have some that are over 10 years old and still fine (and played with during that time and still play with). Some things are "invented" to make the cue different from others, IMO.
Note: that last sentance is an opinion
True dat Frank.
OK, ACME or radial pins MIGHT last longer and might be tighter.
OK, ACME or radial pins MIGHT last longer and might be tighter.
drivermaker
Banned
Joseph Cues said:
Well it seems to me that EVERYONE is just giving their opinion from their own perspective. Silencer is just getting blasted from all angles on his. And although Silencer didn't distinquish joint from pin, it was discussed in the earlier thread which eventually produced this one. Here's the quote from Blud to Silencer: "Most of us here will agree that you no nothing of what you are talking about. For your information, sir, the type of joint, pins, pin size, steel, flat faced, and or wooden threads all play differant, and do affect the cues playability".
I think a question that has to be asked at this point is...what does "playability" mean in both Blud and Silencer's definition of the word? When Blud says, they all 'play different', I'd have to agree with that, but to what degree? They sound different and transmit a different sensation up through your hands and up to your ears, but does it cause you to make any more or less balls based on the joint and pin? If you put a blindfold on, would you really be able to tell one from another? Does one joint/pin or another create more spin or deflection? So, is the actual outcome of CB action and potting balls what "playability" means? This question needs to be answered by Blud and Silencer.
Rickw said:PTM,
Good to have you back! And, yeah, he's anything but silent!!!
Will his handle is the "SilencER" not the "Silent". Maybe it means he post so much that nobody else does, thus he is the "Silencer".
joints
First off Jim Buss is a good cuemaker.
However, joints, pins do make the cue hit differantly.Steel joints make the cue hit harder and stiff.
The radial pin makes the cue front heavy, and most of the time the cuemaker, make up for this with a weight bolt. The radial pin has to much weight [mass] and makes the cue to stiff for my liking. It squrits the ball.
The 3/8" pin makes is hit not so hard, and gives the cue more flex at the joint. I did much studing on this before I desiged my joint and joint pin.
We all have our opinions, but silencer is just guessing, with not good information.
If you give out information, be sure it's correct.....
blud
drivermaker said:
First off Jim Buss is a good cuemaker.
However, joints, pins do make the cue hit differantly.Steel joints make the cue hit harder and stiff.
The radial pin makes the cue front heavy, and most of the time the cuemaker, make up for this with a weight bolt. The radial pin has to much weight [mass] and makes the cue to stiff for my liking. It squrits the ball.
The 3/8" pin makes is hit not so hard, and gives the cue more flex at the joint. I did much studing on this before I desiged my joint and joint pin.
We all have our opinions, but silencer is just guessing, with not good information.
If you give out information, be sure it's correct.....
blud
Blud, I am trying to remember if Luat still had your bocote cue when he won the world 9 or not.
It was stolen at HT, Bellflower and was never found after that.
It was stolen at HT, Bellflower and was never found after that.
Joseph cues,
3/8 X 10 even if using the right size hand tap, They don't wear out. If you think the ones you buy in the industry is the right tap for a 3/8 pin that is on the standard 3 to 4 thousanths undersize meaning .371 to .372. That's wrong. What they sell in the industry is okay for some one who does it as a hobby but a professional has the taps made to his standard not the industries.
3/8 X 10 even if using the right size hand tap, They don't wear out. If you think the ones you buy in the industry is the right tap for a 3/8 pin that is on the standard 3 to 4 thousanths undersize meaning .371 to .372. That's wrong. What they sell in the industry is okay for some one who does it as a hobby but a professional has the taps made to his standard not the industries.
pro
Gremlin's[/QUOTE]
I don't pay any attention to ptm, blud, or the silencer. Has anyone won a world championship with a blud cue, or on a table repaired by ptm or with silencer's colorful advise? I would say NO! So what is all the fuss. Why don't you people get along?
BTW Gremlin, I have designed and sold, more machinery for building cues than anyone else in the world. Also, have taught more people how to build cues than anyone else.
I was the founder of the American Cuemakers Association, Founder of Cuematers Master cuemaker, the list could go on.
Some cuemakers in the ACA, I got cross ways with, because of my teaching cuemaking and selling my machinery, world wide. They didn't want "THERE" craft given away.Please..........
Buddy Hall was the reason I started building cues. He's won several, world titles with my cues, including the US OPEN, as have Grady, Danny and others, with my cues..
Within the first two years of my cue building carrer, there were 17 plus top world pro-players playing with my cues. Pretty good record for someone you have never heard of. "But you would say no". I could not afford to pay them an endorsement fee, they played with my cues, because of THERE PLAYABILITY'....
I, have been around for decades, and my record as an inventor, developer,a go getter type person, and a person with a lot of drive, has brought me and my company to the top for years now.
I do know what I am talking about. Any good qualified cuemaker will tell you the same, differant jonts and pins changes the hit.......
If not, why is there so many differant types of joints and pins? duh!
In all fairness, we all see colors, in a differant color.
thanks for your time
blud
Gremlin's[/QUOTE]
I don't pay any attention to ptm, blud, or the silencer. Has anyone won a world championship with a blud cue, or on a table repaired by ptm or with silencer's colorful advise? I would say NO! So what is all the fuss. Why don't you people get along?
BTW Gremlin, I have designed and sold, more machinery for building cues than anyone else in the world. Also, have taught more people how to build cues than anyone else.
I was the founder of the American Cuemakers Association, Founder of Cuematers Master cuemaker, the list could go on.
Some cuemakers in the ACA, I got cross ways with, because of my teaching cuemaking and selling my machinery, world wide. They didn't want "THERE" craft given away.Please..........
Buddy Hall was the reason I started building cues. He's won several, world titles with my cues, including the US OPEN, as have Grady, Danny and others, with my cues..
Within the first two years of my cue building carrer, there were 17 plus top world pro-players playing with my cues. Pretty good record for someone you have never heard of. "But you would say no". I could not afford to pay them an endorsement fee, they played with my cues, because of THERE PLAYABILITY'....
I, have been around for decades, and my record as an inventor, developer,a go getter type person, and a person with a lot of drive, has brought me and my company to the top for years now.
I do know what I am talking about. Any good qualified cuemaker will tell you the same, differant jonts and pins changes the hit.......
If not, why is there so many differant types of joints and pins? duh!
In all fairness, we all see colors, in a differant color.
thanks for your time
blud
Blud,
I'm not going to say that all joints play the same by a long shot, but what do you think about the results of the experiment described here:
http://tinyurl.com/3e3hg
Now, I realize that was done more than 10 years ago but do you think that the differences may have been attributed to the pin type or some other construction detail more than the actual joint material? For example, could an ivory jointed cue and a stainless jointed cue have the same "feel" due to differences in construction in the rest of the cue?
I'm not going to say that all joints play the same by a long shot, but what do you think about the results of the experiment described here:
http://tinyurl.com/3e3hg
Now, I realize that was done more than 10 years ago but do you think that the differences may have been attributed to the pin type or some other construction detail more than the actual joint material? For example, could an ivory jointed cue and a stainless jointed cue have the same "feel" due to differences in construction in the rest of the cue?
Sorry
9ball, I should of said, they know nothing about the construction of cues. Only a limited few, know about cue consrtuction. I am not saying pool players are dumb. Sure they know what "hits", feels and looks good to them. When it comes to the construction, they do not know for the most part.
Tell me, 9-baller, Do you know about the constriction of cues?
If so, answer these, very easy and simple questions,,[ you too silencer]...
how do you make a cue play with a soft, when using the same style joint, same size joint, same weight, same tip, ferrule material, same shaft, pin and then take the same cue and make it play with a hard hit? What steps does it take?? How does one do this?
Name me a pool player that can answer that simple question.Name one.
Here's another one for you sir, does a pro-tapered shaft [say 12.65mm]re-act the same on a cue with a steel joint, as it would with a phenolic joint, with the joint being the same size? Would cues shaft be whippy, when on a smaller jointed cue, or would it become stiff with a steel joint or would it [the shaft] become stiffer with a bigger joint dia.?
Tiger may know how to use one, but I'll bet he can't build one that plays well.
Some pool players know how to use a cues, but I'll be they can't build one that plays well.
How can one be an expert on something he hasn't built or just got started building whatever?
Sir, it takes many many years to get good at building cues, and or golf clubs.
Sir, when it comes to cues, the construction of cues, cue machinery and there construction, I got it together.....
I surly do not need the likes of silencer trying to steer folks with bad information.
The more people know about cues, the more people we will have playing pool. However, if they get bad information, that information will add less credit to our sport.....Good information works for me.
blud
but to say that players know nothing about cues is a bogus arguement.jer9ball said:
9ball, I should of said, they know nothing about the construction of cues. Only a limited few, know about cue consrtuction. I am not saying pool players are dumb. Sure they know what "hits", feels and looks good to them. When it comes to the construction, they do not know for the most part.
Tell me, 9-baller, Do you know about the constriction of cues?
If so, answer these, very easy and simple questions,,[ you too silencer]...
how do you make a cue play with a soft, when using the same style joint, same size joint, same weight, same tip, ferrule material, same shaft, pin and then take the same cue and make it play with a hard hit? What steps does it take?? How does one do this?
Name me a pool player that can answer that simple question.Name one.
Here's another one for you sir, does a pro-tapered shaft [say 12.65mm]re-act the same on a cue with a steel joint, as it would with a phenolic joint, with the joint being the same size? Would cues shaft be whippy, when on a smaller jointed cue, or would it become stiff with a steel joint or would it [the shaft] become stiffer with a bigger joint dia.?
Tiger may know how to use one, but I'll bet he can't build one that plays well.
Some pool players know how to use a cues, but I'll be they can't build one that plays well.
How can one be an expert on something he hasn't built or just got started building whatever?
Sir, it takes many many years to get good at building cues, and or golf clubs.
Sir, when it comes to cues, the construction of cues, cue machinery and there construction, I got it together.....
I surly do not need the likes of silencer trying to steer folks with bad information.
The more people know about cues, the more people we will have playing pool. However, if they get bad information, that information will add less credit to our sport.....Good information works for me.
blud
test
Hi Mungtor, I was there when that test took place. I said it then and say it now, the test was not a good one.
How can you take differant cues and test the differance in the .HIT, FEEL, SOUND, and re-action of the ball with differant cues. You can't, it's impossible.
You got to use the same cue........for a true test.
This test that took place, was not to see if a guy could tell what kind of joint was on the cue. It had nothing to do with joints and pins, and seeing if they were the same or differant.
If you took the time to use the same cue and installed the steel joint last and or pins, working your way through all pins, joint configurations, you then could tell the differance. This would allow you to have a comparision, of pins and joints styles,....
To silencer and gremlin,
answer this, do you know of a single cuemaker who can build a steel jointed cues, an ivory jointed cues or flat face phenolic cue, and all hit the same? I been around the best of the best, NONE and I mean NONE, of them can do this.
I assume to lighten your cue, or make it heaver up you would change the weight bolt? Right?
UMMMMMM, wonder what this would do to the balance point??????????????
Recon, it would play as before the bolt was changed????????duh!
However, silencer says, [little or no differance]. Please, you know nothing.........about cue construction...........
NUFF SAID
blud
Mungtor said:
Hi Mungtor, I was there when that test took place. I said it then and say it now, the test was not a good one.
How can you take differant cues and test the differance in the .HIT, FEEL, SOUND, and re-action of the ball with differant cues. You can't, it's impossible.
You got to use the same cue........for a true test.
This test that took place, was not to see if a guy could tell what kind of joint was on the cue. It had nothing to do with joints and pins, and seeing if they were the same or differant.
If you took the time to use the same cue and installed the steel joint last and or pins, working your way through all pins, joint configurations, you then could tell the differance. This would allow you to have a comparision, of pins and joints styles,....
To silencer and gremlin,
answer this, do you know of a single cuemaker who can build a steel jointed cues, an ivory jointed cues or flat face phenolic cue, and all hit the same? I been around the best of the best, NONE and I mean NONE, of them can do this.
I assume to lighten your cue, or make it heaver up you would change the weight bolt? Right?
UMMMMMM, wonder what this would do to the balance point??????????????
Recon, it would play as before the bolt was changed????????duh!
However, silencer says, [little or no differance]. Please, you know nothing.........about cue construction...........
NUFF SAID
blud
Mike, I hear you. I know one local maker who has his taps made.Michael Webb said:
It's about 5 thou undersized.
Problem I see with 3/8 10 is the sharp v tip of the screw is what rides the wood.
On ACME or radial pins, the inside wall of the pins ride the wood threads.
Even Bryan here , of BCM, has switched to 3/8 11 acme type pin.
Then again, when the wood threads wear out, steam can make those threads expand again for an easy fix.
There is some thing to what you say, but myself along with others still prefer the 3/8 X 10. I haven't had any problems with it stripping out. I guess to each his own.
Man what a discussion this turned into. I'm no cue builder, and I haven't won any world championships, but I can tell you there is a difference in the hit if any one thing on a cue is changed. This would include the pin or joint material or the type of joint. A change in the inlay in the butt of the cue can make a difference in how it feels. Just my opinion, but pool players should talk about playing pool, unless they're learning to build cues. Everyone likes something different or we'd all be carrying the same cues. Wouldn't that be confusing at a big tournament. Sam