To jump or to kick?

J

JonoNZ

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
This extends from the thread about Efren not using one much if at all.

I personally avoid it unless absolutely necessary or the shot is really easy and very little position is required.

My kicking skills I would rate very highly for this reason I believe. One rail kicks on the short rail I make probably half the time and two, three rail kicks I seem to always hit on the side I want.

So do some of you not use a jump cue to improve kicking and find eventually you keep kicking even in tournaments and league games etc??

Lend me your thoughts ;)
 
old school !

JonoNZ said:
This extends from the thread about Efren not using one much if at all.

I personally avoid it unless absolutely necessary or the shot is really easy and very little position is required.

My kicking skills I would rate very highly for this reason I believe. One rail kicks on the short rail I make probably half the time and two, three rail kicks I seem to always hit on the side I want.

So do some of you not use a jump cue to improve kicking and find eventually you keep kicking even in tournaments and league games etc??

Lend me your thoughts ;)
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..LOL! that is what some of my friends call me since I do not own a jump cue and so far have no real desire to go to one ! I might qualify this by saying I mainly play 8 ball and Straight Pool 1 and I learned to play when "Players" did not have such tools ! You learned Bank and Kiss shots! and when in a real pinch the Kick Shot ;) Most shooters had 1 cue to play with and if they were real courageous or flamboyant you had a second (usually your last old playing cue) as a break cue ! and besides chalk your only other Cue Tools were your brain and your experience ! :eek:
 
Thats a point too...

Do the older guys here use jumps cues less???

I'm 23 and been playing for 3/4 years and most of my friends picked up a jump cue before a playing cue I'm sure :p They would only be able to see half the ball so run for a jump cue to pot the ball in the other pocket :rolleyes:
 
When you jump a ball and pocket it, your opponent thinks "I could have done that". When you kick a ball in on him, your opponent thinks "oh sh*t"--intimidatation points. Also, if you slop a ball in, your opponent thinks "lucky shot". Whatever it is that can agrevate my opponent while retaining good conduct is fair game. It's a mental struggle, kill or be killed.
 
You gotta play the %s. If the OB is straight in and not near the pocket or a rail, the jump is usually better.
 
I have studied both skills and can now jump great with a full cue, great with a jump cue and can make contact with the side of the ball at the right speed on most kick shots I try.

Because I have practiced both jumping and kicking I generally able to pick which is the right shot to use in any situation I find myself in.

Generally, if I have a good chance to make it or play safe with the jump shot then I will use that. If I cannot control the cueball on the jump shot then I will play the kick shot.

For me, I know that both kick shots and jump shots are required as part of a well rounded game. I too learned to play in an era when there weren't any jump cues and the only book around was Bob Byrne's Standard Book of Pool. Now there is no excuse for people not to learn both skills due to the plethora of instruction and equipment suited to the task.
 
John Barton said:
I have studied both skills and can now jump great with a full cue, great with a jump cue and can make contact with the side of the ball at the right speed on most kick shots I try.

Because I have practiced both jumping and kicking I generally able to pick which is the right shot to use in any situation I find myself in.

Generally, if I have a good chance to make it or play safe with the jump shot then I will use that. If I cannot control the cueball on the jump shot then I will play the kick shot.

For me, I know that both kick shots and jump shots are required as part of a well rounded game. I too learned to play in an era when there weren't any jump cues and the only book around was Bob Byrne's Standard Book of Pool. Now there is no excuse for people not to learn both skills due to the plethora of instruction and equipment suited to the task.
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Well said!
 
I kick more than I jump. I like the consistancy of knowing where the balls will end up. That said, when you hit a jump shot and your opponent knows you have one it adds a level of pressure to them that forces them to try harder for a safe and can result in a mistake. To not have one simply opens the door to your opponent in that area. Efren has been seen learning to jump. I saw him hit a jump shot, although not well, in an event last year that was televised. He is the best player in the world without one, so he doesn't need one if he doesn't want one. The rest of us should take every advantage we can as that you can bank that your opponents probably already have. Why not? If you don't want to use it fine, just leave the butt sticking out of your case as a threatening reminder to your opponent.

Just my view.

PS: I still love to jump! My new jump cue from Don Broos (DB Custom Cues)is awesome. He made it for me out of a forearm from a Predator that matches my playing cue right down to the stack leather wrap! It hits amazing and really gets heads turning! :D
 
MrLucky said:
..LOL! that is what some of my friends call me since I do not own a jump cue and so far have no real desire to go to one ! I might qualify this by saying I mainly play 8 ball and Straight Pool 1 and I learned to play when "Players" did not have such tools ! You learned Bank and Kiss shots! and when in a real pinch the Kick Shot ;) Most shooters had 1 cue to play with and if they were real courageous or flamboyant you had a second (usually your last old playing cue) as a break cue ! and besides chalk your only other Cue Tools were your brain and your experience ! :eek:
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I hear what you're saying, and I too grew up in the pre-jump stick era. The point that John and I are making is that while your philosophy may be fine for 8-ball and Straights, it simply won't cut it in the modern game of one-foul 9-ball where players have become so proficient at hooking you and taking away rails. When you see even Efren hauling out the short stick in certain situations, it is incontrovertible proof that there are times when the jump shot is simply the better option.

While I agree that too many lower-level players use the jump cue as a crutch to make up for the weaknesses in their kicking or position game, I don't think that this should be an indictment of the jump cue itself. When 9-ball is played properly, all the jump cue does is to widen the array of options available to a player and allow him to execute the best percentage play for the particular situation. As I stated in the other thread, I have yet to see where lesser players are able to beat better players consistently because of the jump stick.
 
After spending time, learning a lot about the diamond system, I learned to kick at hidden balls very consistantly. One thing you can do by kicking at balls is control the speed & spin of the Cue Ball, after impact with the intended object ball.

However, the Jump Cue does come in handy. Sometimes the traffic is the deciding factor about whether to Kick or Jump.

I have custom jump cue, which does assist me in using it. The tip is modified to hold chalk, so I can actually do a jump/masse'. The tipp is flatter. The Jump Cue is longer & lighter than most.

My suggestion would be for all players to learn as much about using the the rails for kicking (you can use the same info to determine cue ball path, after impact with the intended object ball) as you can. I see the jump cue as a necessity, it lowers most opponent's safety barriers.
 
the_general said:
i go for style and class... i don't do a jump shot. :)
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In that case, perhaps you might also consider shooting in a more upright stance (perhaps you already do...) That bending over stuff is....well, not exactly classy. Don't know about you, but some of the things I've seen ain't exactly pretty. If you'd like some for instances, just let me know. :eek:
 
Nice to see "style and class" in the Phillipines translates to Francisco lacks both...he is pretty good with shorty! Same as Alex P. ;) I will let you tell them that ok!
 
I'm old...63...I'm big, 6'3" 250 pounds. I don't jump. It hurts my knees and ankles! ;) I'll confess to being one who doesn't carry a jump cue. I don't think I could stand myself if I damaged a table's cloth.
 
I wouldn't worry too much about damaging the table. The same marks appear after every break (that isn't done by Corey D ;) ). I have seen a few tears in cloths over the years and most have been from a simple long draw stroke where the tip catches an existing nick in the cloth. Bangers do the majority of the trouble as the shoot with no consideration. A proper jump and the tip usually never hits the table!

Just my opinion.
 
i play 9 ball on bar tables mostly and i jump alot more than i kick.anyone who thinks they can kick more balls in than i can jump in can bet what they want.i don't care about syle points or any other BS.i play to win the money,i don't play for looks.
 
I jump rathet than kick usually, depends on the shot really i guess.

Jump if i want to play Offensively, like going for a pot.

Usually play a kick if im playing a defensive shot. Just the way my mind works i guess.
 
I probably jump a little more often than kick but it's close. Really comes down to whether I realy need to make the shot or if 'safe' is good enough.

I usually jump to make and kick to make/safe 50/50.


Oh . . . I pretty much never use a jump cue even tho I do carry a J/B. If it's that tough of a jump that I can't do it with my playing cue then I would just consider another shot option.

I don't really think it's that hard to jump if your form is good and you have some practice at it. To use a shot specific 'club' seems like a sell out to me. :)
 
Oh . . . I pretty much never use a jump cue even tho I do carry a J/B. If it's that tough of a jump that I can't do it with my playing cue then I would just consider another shot option.

I don't really think it's that hard to jump if your form is good and you have some practice at it. To use a shot specific 'club' seems like a sell out to me.

I got to admit, even though I love my kicks, when someone does a jump with a full cue I really do love to see it.

Come to think of it I do jump a little bit, but just 1/4 to 1/2 ball stuff with a full cue and it is really easy to pot the ball. You don't think about the ball in the way, you just raise and aim;)
 
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