Tom Rossman/Maurice Daly/Shadow Aiming

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DrCue'sProtege

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
well, as most of you know Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman has been my instructor buddy for years now. dont get to pick his brain anymore as he doesnt give individual lessons nowadays, but last night as i was practicing i was listening to one of the audio tapes i made while he was at my place a few years ago.

anyway, he mentioned an instructor/player from about 100 years ago named Maurice Daly. said Daly had an old saying that pool would be an easy game if it wasnt for all the interference on the table. interference meaning the Object Balls. for example, if you have a totally straight in shot you can remove the interference (object ball) and shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket time and time again. but once the interference (object ball) is replaced for some reason things change. and then people start to miss.

so, last night, when working on some straight in shots, i just shot the cue ball a few times into the pocket, and nailed it dead center. i noticed the pocket was dark, the rubber pocket itself is dark, shadows creep in, etc, etc. then i replaced the interference (object ball) and something dawned on me. the object ball has a Shadow on the cloth! so, i began aiming the cue ball at the shadow, and began making the straight in shots consistently.

was just wondering if anyone had ever used this method of aiming on straight in shots? that being aiming at the shadow, figuring if you hit the center of the shadow the object ball has to go in? i could shoot them all day into the center of the pocket without an object ball, so i figured i could shoot them all day into the center of that shadow also.

just curious.
DCP

p.s. as always, serious replies. if i wanted jokes i would tune into Comedy Central.
 
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DrCue'sProtege said:
well, as most of you know Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman has been my instructor buddy for years now. dont get to pick his brain anymore as he doesnt give individual lessons nowadays, but last night as i was practicing i was listening to one of the audio tapes i made while he was at my place a few years ago.

anyway, he mentioned an instructor/player from about 100 years ago named Maurice Daly. said Daly had an old saying that pool would be an easy game if it wasnt for all the interference on the table. interference meaning the Object Balls. for example, if you have a totally straight in shot you can remove the interference (object ball) and shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket time and time again. but once the interference (object ball) is replaced for some reason things change. and then people start to miss.

so, last night, when working on some straight in shots, i just shot the cue ball a few times into the pocket, and nailed it dead center. i noticed the pocket was dark, the rubber pocket itself is dark, shadows creep in, etc, etc. then i replaced the interference (object ball) and something dawned on me. the object ball has a Shadow on the cloth! so, i began aiming the cue ball at the shadow, and began making the straight in shots consistently.

was just wondering if anyone had ever used this method of aiming on straight in shots? that being aiming at the shadow, figuring if you hit the center of the shadow the object ball has to go in? i could shoot them all day into the center of the pocket without an object ball, so i figured i could shoot them all day into the center of that shadow also.

just curious.
DCP
Click to expand...

So you started aiming at the correct point of contact on the object ball? Shadow, Point of contact, whatever works right? Amazing..LOL
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
well, as most of you know Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman has been my instructor buddy for years now. dont get to pick his brain anymore as he doesnt give individual lessons nowadays, but last night as i was practicing i was listening to one of the audio tapes i made while he was at my place a few years ago.

anyway, he mentioned an instructor/player from about 100 years ago named Maurice Daly. said Daly had an old saying that pool would be an easy game if it wasnt for all the interference on the table. interference meaning the Object Balls. for example, if you have a totally straight in shot you can remove the interference (object ball) and shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket time and time again. but once the interference (object ball) is replaced for some reason things change. and then people start to miss.

so, last night, when working on some straight in shots, i just shot the cue ball a few times into the pocket, and nailed it dead center. i noticed the pocket was dark, the rubber pocket itself is dark, shadows creep in, etc, etc. then i replaced the interference (object ball) and something dawned on me. the object ball has a Shadow on the cloth! so, i began aiming the cue ball at the shadow, and began making the straight in shots consistently.

was just wondering if anyone had ever used this method of aiming on straight in shots? that being aiming at the shadow, figuring if you hit the center of the shadow the object ball has to go in? i could shoot them all day into the center of the pocket without an object ball, so i figured i could shoot them all day into the center of that shadow also.

just curious.
DCP

p.s. as always, serious replies. if i wanted jokes i would tune into Comedy Central.
Click to expand...

Hi DCP,

Froeschle (sp) used to teach something similar to make those straight-in shots. He said to forget the ob and just shoot the cb into the pocket and the ob would interfere with the cb and go in, instead. I'm guessing now that he got it from Daly's work.

So, with that in mind, how about forgetting the (always different) shadow on the ob and just shoot at the dark pocket and simply let the ob interfere with the cb?

Jeff Livingston
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
was just wondering if anyone had ever used this method of aiming on straight in shots? that being aiming at the shadow, figuring if you hit the center of the shadow the object ball has to go in? i could shoot them all day into the center of the pocket without an object ball, so i figured i could shoot them all day into the center of that shadow also.
Click to expand...


I guess until you made this discovery on your own...NONE of the stuff we've been talking about on here regarding "aiming systems" EVER sunk in.

Yes...shadow aiming is one of only many. Base of the ball, lights, sections, fractions, contact points, ghost balls, centers, edges, etc., etc, are ALL ways to see a shot. That's all an aiming system is...different ways of setting up and visualizing to make various shots go in.
 
Never used the shadown before and never heard of anyone using it...can't even recall seeing a shadow, and if I did, I would want to check if it was being cast in line with the shot.

That said, I think you'll find it's a temporary fix. How hard is it to see the center of a straight in ball?...not very!

The reason you can hit the center of the pocket everytime is because if you miss by 2mm either side it still looks like you hit the center.

But when you hit 2mm either side of the center of the OB then it misses the pocket. About 1mm either side of the target contact point is enough for most longish posts. It can be worked out by some trigonometry if you're interested.

Line up 3 balls each 2 feet apart and the accuracy required will increase by another significant factor. You'll need +/- 0.3mm accuracy or something like that.

Maurice Daly sounds like he was a bit of a dork!
 
Colin Colenso said:
Never used the shadown before and never heard of anyone using it...can't even recall seeing a shadow, and if I did, I would want to check if it was being cast in line with the shot.

That said, I think you'll find it's a temporary fix. How hard is it to see the center of a straight in ball?...not very!

The reason you can hit the center of the pocket everytime is because if you miss by 2mm either side it still looks like you hit the center.

But when you hit 2mm either side of the center of the OB then it misses the pocket. About 1mm either side of the target contact point is enough for most longish posts. It can be worked out by some trigonometry if you're interested.

Line up 3 balls each 2 feet apart and the accuracy required will increase by another significant factor. You'll need +/- 0.3mm accuracy or something like that.

Maurice Daly sounds like he was a bit of a dork!
Click to expand...


Depends.......Usually your right...someone finds a new system that magically makes balls....What I think really happens is that with this new found system, you forget about all the negative stuff (that you had been thinking) and focus on your system and make balls with the greatest of ease....after the novelty of the new system wears off, the old habits tend to creep back in...

Once you realize that its nothing more than your attention pointed in the right direction that makes balls..AKA focus or confidence.....you will be off to the races

After a while your shot making process should become second nature....but it's a definate plus to have a system (of some kind) to get your focus or confidence back on track if you start missing balls......JMO
 
Colin Colenso said:
Never used the shadown before and never heard of anyone using it...can't even recall seeing a shadow
Click to expand...

I hear if the object ball sees it's own shadow you get 6 more weeks of Winter.

No, but seriously folks, an obvious problem with this is the size, direction and intensity of a shadow on the object ball will be entirely dependant on the lighting conditions. On one table this may work fine, on another with better lighting that eliminates almost all shadows you may not be able to use it at all, and heaven help you if there's a light coming from the side somewhere casting a shadow at an angle across the table.

I think a better way to visualize this may be something I've seen advised before, which is to aim at the base of the object ball where it meets the cloth. This is a much smaller target point than the round face of the ball and may be useful for straight-in shots. However for me I know I miss straight-in shots because of bad stroke mechanics, not bad aiming. Sometimes I get into a groove of making a correction, deliberately aiming a little opposite of whatever side I'm missing on and start making them repeatedly. Your shadow method, assuming the shadow is at a slight angle to the object ball, may be doing the same thing. But I am not happy with using such work-arounds, I'd much rather figure out how to fix my mechanics so I can actually hit the ball straight on.
 
This is definitely "Agree With Colin Day". On a 7 or 8 foot straight in shot (with the object ball and cue ball and pocket all about an equal distance apart) you will need an EXTREME amount of precision to pocket the ball (while just shooting the cue ball into a 4 1/2" pocket from the same distance would be a breeze, requiring VERY LITTLE precision).

When pocketing such an object ball, you absolutely need to hit the cue ball in the center, and I'm talking about within 1/124th of an inch of dead center to assure pocketing the object ball. You must also hit almost exactly dead center on the object ball. Neither of these requirements is present when just pounding the cue ball into a pocket.

If you ever make it to "Betmore's Basement", the first competitive drill we do is shoot 10 or 20 shots off the foot spot to the center of the head rail with "4-cushion" power, and bet on who gets the most balls to return back over the foot spot. Anybody doing less than 7/10 (on a 9 foot table) is probably not going to be helped by any aiming method.
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
well, as most of you know Tom "Dr Cue" Rossman has been my instructor buddy for years now. dont get to pick his brain anymore as he doesnt give individual lessons nowadays, but last night as i was practicing i was listening to one of the audio tapes i made while he was at my place a few years ago.

anyway, he mentioned an instructor/player from about 100 years ago named Maurice Daly. said Daly had an old saying that pool would be an easy game if it wasnt for all the interference on the table. interference meaning the Object Balls. for example, if you have a totally straight in shot you can remove the interference (object ball) and shoot the cue ball straight into the pocket time and time again. but once the interference (object ball) is replaced for some reason things change. and then people start to miss.

so, last night, when working on some straight in shots, i just shot the cue ball a few times into the pocket, and nailed it dead center. i noticed the pocket was dark, the rubber pocket itself is dark, shadows creep in, etc, etc. then i replaced the interference (object ball) and something dawned on me. the object ball has a Shadow on the cloth! so, i began aiming the cue ball at the shadow, and began making the straight in shots consistently.

was just wondering if anyone had ever used this method of aiming on straight in shots? that being aiming at the shadow, figuring if you hit the center of the shadow the object ball has to go in? i could shoot them all day into the center of the pocket without an object ball, so i figured i could shoot them all day into the center of that shadow also.

just curious.
DCP

p.s. as always, serious replies. if i wanted jokes i would tune into Comedy Central.
Click to expand...
Hey Protege, that is one good way of aiming as far as straight in shots. Even if you are aiming for cut shots. But be careful not to depend on those shadows too much. There are lighting systems in some pool halls and big tournaments that eliminate ball shadows.
 
Just saw these lights from another thread and this is the lighting used to eliminate shadows. Not that they are diamond lights, but the same kind.
 
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Colin Colenso said:
Maurice Daly sounds like he was a bit of a dork!
Click to expand...

He wrote a pretty good book, Daly's Billiard Book, Dover Publications c1913. I cannot recall any discussion about this aiming issue in the book.

Dave
 
dont think Maurice Daly specifically wrote about my Shadow aiming system on straight in shots.

however, Rossman told me Daly was quoted as saying pool would be easier without all the interference. interference being the object balls.

DCP
 
DrCue'sProtege said:
however, Rossman told me Daly was quoted as saying pool would be easier without all the interference. interference being the object balls.

DCP
Click to expand...


yeh...so would golf if it didn't have all of those damn trees, sand traps, water, wind, rough, a golf ball that gets in the way of picture perfect practice swings, and the fact that you have to keep score.

(maybe somebody already said it...but you can now quote me as the originator)
 
drivermaker said:
yeh...so would golf if it didn't have all of those damn trees, sand traps, water, wind, rough, a golf ball that gets in the way of picture perfect practice swings, and the fact that you have to keep score.

(maybe somebody already said it...but you can now quote me as the originator)
Click to expand...
Did you also say 'Golf is a good walk ruined' ?
 
was just wondering if anyone had ever used this method of aiming on straight in shots? that being aiming at the shadow, figuring if you hit the center of the shadow the object ball has to go in? i could shoot them all day into the center of the pocket without an object ball, so i figured i could shoot them all day into the center of that shadow also.
That works. Or you could just aim the center of the tip to the center of the pocket since it's dead straight.
 
JoeyInCali said:
Or you could just aim the center of the tip to the center of the pocket since it's dead straight.
Click to expand...



THIS IS MONUMENTAL, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN!! Joey has either just learned or is now admitting to using an AIMING SYSTEM!!! :D :cool:

I'm CERTAIN he uses it himself...along with many others.
 
drivermaker said:
yeh...so would golf if it didn't have all of those damn trees, sand traps, water, wind, rough, a golf ball that gets in the way of picture perfect practice swings, and the fact that you have to keep score.
Click to expand...

I don't know...I don't think the score keeping part is an obstical...I think it may be an advantage...I have seen some VERY good 4-man scramble score keepers......some of them just leave you shaking your head in amazement they are so good.... ;)
 
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