took a few steps backwards, need help to get up again..

Train1077

Train1077

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I usually play a bit pool at least every day. Doing exercises at times, and just pocket balls at other times. I felt that things was going fine, until I got the flu, and had two days without pool.

Then when I returned, everything felt uncomfortable. Out of order. I had gotten a good stroke, I usually jerked the pre-strokes, but it had become more fluent, and I had great cb control, with minimal force. Now, I have started lifting the elbow in the stroke, I can't get the same loose right hand grip on the cue, it either is too loose, or I grip it in the actual stroke and breaks the follow through killing the effect. Well, that is if I don't relax my body, and feel that I have to tighten muscles and thereby lifts the elbow and every draw shot flies off the table.

I don't feel like playing opponents, I don't feel good with my game. I just want to practise and get a good stroke and good control. But I usually play games with others at least once a week.

I also tried finding the line of my aim. I think it is my right eye, maybe only 80%, but this makes me miss a lot. If I force myself to close my left eye, and aim with my right eye, I pocket the balls most of the time. But If I am not always thinking about it, I think I move my head. Now I don't even now how to aim the right way anymore. I'm not sure what I did before, and what is correct for me.

How do I find my way back? and also improve over time...

Another thing, could someone recommend me someone to look a bit at my technique if I record it? we haven't got any instructors in Denmark.
 
You have learned a valuable lesson.... Record... Record... Record....... Not only will it allow you to post it to the forums when you are asking for help it will also let you find your own way home at times like this when everything seems like the wheels have come off...

DR Dave has great information on his website about finding the line OR our own little sighting guru, Geno, dropped an RV on himself last week and is laid up and giving phone lessons... Not sure how much a call to the states is from Denmark but it would likely be well worth it.....

Record it and post it.... Just be prepared to get picked to death on fundamental flaws.... Sounds like you may need it.....
 
All of that happened after two days of having the flu?? Holy smokes. I'm getting a flu shot first thing in the morning.
 
Two days without playing is not going to cause you to lose your fundamentals. I suspect they may not have been as solid as you might have thought they were.
Pool goes in cycles...I can go for weeks playing near the top of my game, only to have the wheels fall off for no apparent reason. When it happens, I first try to pin-point the root cause of the problem, and then go back to the basics drills designed to address the specific issue.
Feel free to post a video, and you will get plenty of good advice from the instructors around here.....but first, review it yourself and see what problems you notice. Then see how your observations match up with the instructors. Learning to evaluate your own game is a skill worth developing.
Steve
 
Train1077 said:
I usually play a bit pool at least every day. Doing exercises at times, and just pocket balls at other times. I felt that things was going fine, until I got the flu, and had two days without pool.

Then when I returned, everything felt uncomfortable. Out of order. I had gotten a good stroke, I usually jerked the pre-strokes, but it had become more fluent, and I had great cb control, with minimal force. Now, I have started lifting the elbow in the stroke, I can't get the same loose right hand grip on the cue, it either is too loose, or I grip it in the actual stroke and breaks the follow through killing the effect. Well, that is if I don't relax my body, and feel that I have to tighten muscles and thereby lifts the elbow and every draw shot flies off the table.

I don't feel like playing opponents, I don't feel good with my game. I just want to practise and get a good stroke and good control. But I usually play games with others at least once a week.

I also tried finding the line of my aim. I think it is my right eye, maybe only 80%, but this makes me miss a lot. If I force myself to close my left eye, and aim with my right eye, I pocket the balls most of the time. But If I am not always thinking about it, I think I move my head. Now I don't even now how to aim the right way anymore. I'm not sure what I did before, and what is correct for me.

How do I find my way back? and also improve over time...

Another thing, could someone recommend me someone to look a bit at my technique if I record it? we haven't got any instructors in Denmark.
Click to expand...

Is it just one day of bad shooting? Or has it been a consistent trend over a period of time?

Sometimes all you need to do is sleep on it. You can reason your way into a slump by overreacting to a bad night, trust me I've done more times than I care to remember.

That said, it's always a good idea to brush up on your mechanics and find ways to improve them.
 
being sick can dehydrate you and dehydration kills fine motor control...and can effect vision

drink 2 full liter bottles of water over the 2-3 hours before you practice tomarrow and came back and tell me if you did better or not ;)
 
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You appear to be a deliberate player.

I like the way you ground your tip and then slide into shot position. Your back hand appears to be loose and it starts in good position. All good things. You seem consistent on the first two shots 4 warmups and then you pull the trigger. On the last shot you did not follow that pattern. Can you explain why?

I would suggest that you develop a real pause before you pull the trigger. I don't see one on your video. It will help you decide when to go, switch the focus and allow your non-thinking side of your brain to take over. You should also work keeping the cue level on at cue ball address.

You do have an elbow drop and though it appears to happen after cue ball contact, it is something that you can address and clean up. I also tried to make sense of your eye pattern but I could not see it very well on the video. Could you explain what you are looking at during your shot process.





Train1077 said:
Here is a video of three strokes, any thoughts of it is welcome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QcKqlgrcoI
Click to expand...
 
OK I see your problem. Lift your elbow up about 50.5 centimeters and keep it there. Your upper arm is too low at starting position. In the first stroke you demonstrated, there was no rail obstructing your stroke so it was a successful stroke. But as soon as the rail comes into play, you will have problems because your back arm is too low --- and the rail will be present on most shots. You should have a slight downard angle into your shots. Don't try to be perfectly level because it is not possible with the rails of the pool table in the way of most of our shots.

Other than that, you have a nice stroke. Your setup by sliding the cue stick on the table is not one that is generally used and not used at all by the pros. You will find that while it is nice for practicing one shot at a time, it is not practical when shooting in a game with balls all around. Rarely will you get a chance to set up that way, so I think it would be best if you trained yourself to setup in a way that would work in a real game situation.

And by all means....play people. It's a different kind of experience when you are in competition...and rewarding.
 
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I like Tony's comments a lot. I might add that your set position(cue tip address before final stroke) is pretty short.

I am not sure how I feel about that Pre shot routine but I'll leave to that to somebody else.

Since you do appear to be so deliberate, are you always thinking a lot when playing or do you ever let your subconscious take over?
 
Tony_in_MD said:
...... On the last shot you did not follow that pattern. Can you explain why? ..... Could you explain what you are looking at during your shot process.
Click to expand...

I don't think I have certain number of pre-strokes, I think I do it until it feels right. I think I switch between looking at the BC and OB during the pre-strokes, and at he OB when I shoot. But when I try to balls on a straight line and aim, I sometimes aim like a rifle with my right eye, and sometimes, 80% to the right. The last one often makes me miss shots, except straight in, but it is a bit of a strain when only using my right eye.


mattp said:
Since you do appear to be so deliberate, are you always thinking a lot when playing or do you ever let your subconscious take over?
Click to expand...

Actually, I think too much. In all parts if my life. I don't playing 8ball and 14.1 because I can never decide in which order to take the balls, and how I can make it perfect around the table. In 14.1 I am not very consistent, I usually mess up, when I start thinking. I very often have doubts, about aiming, and how to do things. In 9 and 10ball, the order is decided, I just have to think about problem balls. But sometimes, on rare times, when I just shoot, it often goes great.

I don't feel comfortable playing matches, because I don't believe in myself. But I do it anyway, sometimes good, sometimes bad. Maybe this is what holds me back. I have tried to change it, but it is just who I am.
 
Your eye pattern looked pretty good to me in the one shot.
I like this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JNLGgfrNavg
about seeing straight lines.

As far as warm up stroke there is a recent thread about them. Overall, it is generally agreed that you should have a consistent amount in your warm up cycle for most if not all shots. I think Scott Lee describes it best.

Also, I meant your set was short in time duration not distance.

I also prefer 9 ball and the like because shot selection seems easier. But I got better at 8 and Str8 by feeling(asking my subconscious what the right shot is for me) the shot. Often in practice we try to play what we believe to be perfect or how a pro would play it. That is not necessarily a bad thing as we learn new shots but IN COMPETITION I think it is better to trust your gut as to the best shot for you because if your subconscious is telling you to do it then you probably can do it and knowing this should give you confidence.

Every once in awhile, I dedicate a couple weeks to playing without thinking and am sometimes amazed by the results.
 
There was only one shot you made where I could see your eyes but I could not tell how you were focusing your eyes through the shot process.

My eye pattern is such that when I commit to my pause, my eyes shift to the object ball for two seconds and stay there through my final stroke and finish.

You want to avoid rapid eye movements which don't allow your brain to process the information on the first go.

You will have to explain more about 'aiming like a rifle' I am not sure what that is all about. Do you close one eye? I did not see that on the video.
 
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Sometimes I close my left eye, when I go down into the shot, to make sure I have the cue under my dominant eye, and then open it again.

I tried to make an image of where I have my head/eye during the stroke. On this picture, sometimes it feels natural to me to have the cue at number 2, and at other times at number 3. I am able to pocket straight shots on both 2 and 3, but I should not change how I hold my head.
By rifle I mean aiming at number 2, directly under the dominant eye. I just need to do the same each time, and I am wondering which is the "correct" thing? if there is any.

eyeska.jpg
 
Neil said:
See that part of your quote in red? Sorry to be so blunt, but that is nothing more than a cop out on your part. It's who you are because that's what you WANT to be! You can say you have tried to change it, and I believe you have to an extent. You have because you KNOW deep down that you have to. Yet, you are very comfortable the way you are, so deep down you refuse to accept the change.
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I wont say I am comfortable that way, but I know what you are saying. And I think you are correct. I have suffered a lot from anxiety, and this is also something you grow comfortable with, even though it being a pain in the a%&
But it is very hard to change, and maybe you are right. I also do play 8ball, and 14.1, but I don't think, that I know what in the game to focus on. I try to focus on the patterns, but yes it is going to take time.

I am also a bit more upset about the fact, that after 3 years I doubt my stroke. I could just play, and enjoy the game, develop "my kind of technique and game". I think I just try to get the "perfect" stroke, in stead of making it my own. maybe something that works for some, won't even work for me anyway. I don't know. I will keep trying to not dropping my elbow. I often hit the cueball too low in draw shots, making it fly, because I hit down on the ball, instead of hitting it with the cue in a straight motion.

I will try to make a picture or video from the front, in a stroke, so I can see my aim from "outside" myself. and also make a long line with the cue like you write. I experiment to find "my thing" :)


And btw, thanks to all the people answering my questions so far, keep answering and commenting please :)
 
Train1077...I agree that "finding yourself" is imperative to good play, rather than trying to necessarily copy someone else. Enjoying playing is an absolute MUST...otherwise it becomes too much like 'work'. This is one reason why we always suggest to students to finish any serious practice session with some enjoyable play. Is there work involved in trying to make changes? Yes. Is change difficult? Yes. That said, if you know what it is you're trying to change, and you have a way to measure the change (we can't change what we don't don't know about, and we can't change what we can't measure), it is easier to accomplish...especially by yourself. I watched your video, and didn't see anything too radical. I agree with the assessment to stop a little longer at the CB, before your final backswing (what's a little longer?...maybe a 1/2 second more).

As for miscuing when shooting low on the CB...try this...get to your "ready" position (we call it the set...just before you start your final backswing), consciously relax your grip (too tight of a grip is often the culprit in miscues on draw shots), close your eyes, and do your backswing and forward stroke, with a smooth transition. I'm betting you will not miscue. As for the eye pattern...that's difficult to see from the side. Shooting video from a head on perspective will show this, and then we can advise you. Hope this helps! :D

Scott Lee
www.poolknowledge.com

Train1077 said:
I am also a bit more upset about the fact, that after 3 years I doubt my stroke. I could just play, and enjoy the game, develop "my kind of technique and game". I think I just try to get the "perfect" stroke, in stead of making it my own. maybe something that works for some, won't even work for me anyway. I don't know. I will keep trying to not dropping my elbow. I often hit the cueball too low in draw shots, making it fly, because I hit down on the ball, instead of hitting it with the cue in a straight motion.

I will try to make a picture or video from the front, in a stroke, so I can see my aim from "outside" myself. and also make a long line with the cue like you write. I experiment to find "my thing" :)


And btw, thanks to all the people answering my questions so far, keep answering and commenting please :)
Click to expand...
 
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The only concern that I see in this video is that it appears to me that you are not delivering the cue in a straight line through the cueball. I see the cuetip swerve through your stroke from center to your right during the back swing then to your left as you come through the ball. I believe it is caused by you bringing you shoulder into play during your stroke.

You can see this for yourself clearly on all of the shots in this video.

I would suggest that you start doing a progressive stop shot drill. You will need to setup a pure straight line with a laser light, and use notebook hole reinforcers to mark the ball positions on that line.

Start out a diamond apart and pocket the ball in a corner. The goal is to have the cue ball stop dead on impact with the object ball. If it is off line adjust your alignment and cue tip delivery until you master a perfect stop shot. Your goal is to have that cue ball stop in PERFECT line with the object ball it hit.

You can then go to 2 diamonds apart and repeat. Keep going up a diamond at a time.


Do this for no more than 20 minutes a day, and then play some people and HAVE FUN.

:)



Train1077 said:
Here is a link of some strokes from the front.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tjIHim3mi3Y
Click to expand...
 
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