Top spin Poll

[Wolven]

I have seen top players give conflicting advise.
I would like to take a poll on the method of applying top spin. Hope everyone participates.

Question: What is the positioning of your cue while stroking with top spin?

1. Cue stick is pointing up

2. Cue stick is level

3. Cue stick is pointing down

 

[Snookerd]

depends on where you want the cueball to go afterwards.. i use all of the above.. and FIRST!!

 

[Bob Jewett]

I have seen top players give conflicting advise.
I would like to take a poll on the method of applying top spin. Hope everyone participates.

Question: What is the positioning of your cue while stroking with top spin?

1. Cue stick is pointing up

2. Cue stick is level

3. Cue stick is pointing down

I'm curious. How do you get the cue stick pointing up? I've believed for some time now that was more or less impossible.

Also, I was wondering.... Who gives the various sorts of advice and is it in print or on the web?

 

[BWTadpole]

I want my cue to be either level or below level when I'm using follow. Sometimes, if I don't feel comfortable using my open bridge to use follow, I'll use my closed bridge (which can't normally reach as high without being really unstable). That's when I notice my cue tip is actually pointing up at the cue ball.

 

[Wolven]

Bob,

Mike Sigel in his training video says that you should be shooting down. A local very strong master and most everyone I know say keep cue level. I have seen in print both level and up but I cannot remember where, so would have to look for it. I have tried all 3. What do you think?

 

[mikepage]

Bob,

Mike Sigel in his training video says that you should be shooting down. A local very strong master and most everyone I know say keep cue level. I have seen in print both level and up but I cannot remember where, so would have to look for it. I have tried all 3. What do you think?

You need to go to your table with a cue and a level. To make my cue level, I have to rest it on the rail and ON TOP of the cueball.

My cue is pointing down when I apply topspin, as is yours and everybody else's who replied to this poll.

Except for those rare shots for which none of the cue is over the rail, everybody's cue is pointing down on every shot.

 

[David Beck]

Pointing down just doesn't make sense to me. Adds in unnecessary elements. Also, unless you're trying to do something tricky, you really don't want the cueball to hop. It'll kill it off the rail. Level or pointing up should produce pretty much the same result. Pointing up might even be useful in some close situations.

 

[md5key]

I hit with the cue as level as I can get it, and I hit through the cue ball. Hitting through the ball and making sure to have a good follow through seems to great increase the amount of "junk" I can put on the ball

 

[tucson9ball]

Topspin

You need to go to your table with a cue and a level. To make my cue level, I have to rest it on the rail and ON TOP of the cueball.

My cue is pointing down when I apply topspin, as is yours and everybody else's who replied to this poll.

Except for those rare shots for which none of the cue is over the rail, everybody's cue is pointing down on every shot.

You make a very good point here. But I beleive that most people try to keep their cue "as level as possible". As for the pointing upward thing, I don't think it is possible.

 

[shortman]

Nope not impossible I use it on occation.

cheers----------BW

You make a very good point here. But I beleive that most people try to keep their cue "as level as possible". As for the pointing upward thing, I don't think it is possible.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... As for the pointing upward thing, I don't think it is possible.

Yup. I think the bottom line is that many who discuss levelness of the stick are either clueless about what is actually going on or they word their statements badly. Bob Byrne recently presented a shot in which you do actually hit up on the cue ball. It's not easy to do that unless you abandon your usual fundamentals. It is a very special shot in a very special situation, and one of the features is that you can make the cue ball swerve to the left with right side spin.

As for my vote, I'm with the "level as possible" crowd (except for a few special and/or bizarre shots in which you want the cue ball to bounce). I have the scars on my knuckles to prove it.

 

[Bob Jewett]

Nope not impossible I use it on occation.

cheers----------BW

Would it be possible to have someone take a picture from the side when you are shooting such an upward-sloping-stick shot? I'd like to see your technique. I have a couple of ways to do it, but they aren't always practical.

Thanks,

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Bob:
How do you get the cue stick pointing up? I've believed for some time now that was more or less impossible.

Mike:
To make my cue level, I have to rest it on the rail and ON TOP of the cueball.

My cue is pointing down when I apply topspin, as is yours and everybody else's who replied to this poll.

Except for those rare shots for which none of the cue is over the rail, everybody's cue is pointing down on every shot.

Actually, no level is needed to prove what you say. Just measure the height of the top of your rail from the table surface and compare that with the above-center miscue limit on a cue ball. If the rail is higher than the miscue limit, then you have to hit downward on every over-the-rail shot (99% of all shots), even with follow.

Here's how that looks on most tables (except only Olhausens, I think), assuming the rest of the rail is no higher than the cushion:



Unless you get your whole stick inside the rails and grip with your fingertips* you can't possibly hit upward at the cue ball.

pj
chgo

*...or unless you can hit accurately with your backhand dropping...

 

[mikepage]

Yup. I think the bottom line is that many who discuss levelness of the stick are either clueless about what is actually going on or they word their statements badly. Bob Byrne recently presented a shot in which you do actually hit up on the cue ball. [...]

And just to be a bit of a word nit and a bit of an advocate for people saying what they mean and meaning what they say, I'll point out that the original question was about the direction the stick is pointing, not about the direction the tip is moving.[...]

 

[okinawa77]

I have seen top players give conflicting advise.
I would like to take a poll on the method of applying top spin. Hope everyone participates.

Question: What is the positioning of your cue while stroking with top spin?

1. Cue stick is pointing up

2. Cue stick is level

3. Cue stick is pointing down

I look at it as "how to avoid a miscue".

I shoot with a nearly level cue, but pointing down just a little bit.

What I do is address the CB with a center ball hit, then shift my whole cue up.

 

[Bob Jewett]

... the original question was about the direction the stick is pointing, not about the direction the tip is moving.[...]

I was trying some "tip rising" shots just last night. I didn't have much success. I couldn't find a shot that demonstrated any benefit of the technique compared to a careful, nearly-level straight-through stroke.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Mike Sigel in his training video says that you should be shooting down.

I think the only reason to want to shoot downward is to make the cue ball curve or jump - it probably will whether you want it to or not (since you're always shooting downward), which may be the biggest reason for missed shots.

pj
chgo

 

[mikepage]

Actually, no level is needed to prove what you say. [...]

I like your diagram Pat.

And what you show is a best-case scenario. If it's the butt of that level cue that's over the rail, then the whole cue raises up such that the tip is between 2.0 inches and the top of the ball

 

[td873]

Question: What is the positioning of your cue while stroking with top spin?

Just to be clear, you do mean "while stroking" and not after contacting the cue ball?

I suggest level during your preshot routine.

-td

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I like your diagram Pat.

And what you show is a best-case scenario. If it's the butt of that level cue that's over the rail, then the whole cue raises up such that the tip is between 2.0 inches and the top of the ball

Oddly enough, av84fun (rip) taught me a new way of looking at that. He pointed out that if the bottom surface of the cue is horizontal rather than its centerline axis, then the tip can remain at the same height no matter how thick the butt over the rail is. So a level hit at rail height is at least theoretically possible no matter what part of the cue is over the rail.

But that still ignores the extra room we all leave between our precious cues (and knuckles) and the rails, and even with neither of those the lowest possible level hit is a miscue (except on Olhausens).

pj
chgo