This may also help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6CZOwknf5c&list=PLdCfnbGD70QXr28bs6NnEYglN5Qf-bPzf&index=7
In fact the whole series is quite good.
Have a good day
John
touch your chest and not
- Thread starter bbb
- Start date
This may also help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6CZOwknf5c&list=PLdCfnbGD70QXr28bs6NnEYglN5Qf-bPzf&index=7
In fact the whole series is quite good.
Have a good day
John
Here is the text of the article....
Romancing the Stance
January 2009
The mail keeps pouring in …
Dear Tony: What is the one thing you ask beginners to master before they move on? — T. Simon; Topeka, Kan.
The stance should be about 45 degrees to the line of the cue.
Their fundamentals — their stance, grip, stroke, rhythm and making sure to stay down on the shot after their follow-through. If it’s someone who has hit the balls a few times and has a little stroke going, the most difficult thing for them is usually keeping the arm in a dead-straight line. Total beginners struggle the most with stance. You try to get them to stand a certain way, and they just can’t force their body to do it, so you have to constantly remind them where they have to place their feet and how far apart and how much you bend the knees.
You could have the most incredible stroke in the world, but it doesn’t mean anything if your stance is incorrect and not lined up with the shot. I always tell them to make sure that their right foot is underneath the cue stick, and that the left foot is roughly at a 45-degree angle from the line of aim, which is the cue stick. It can be a little more or less than 45 degrees, depending on body type. Mine is about a 40-degree angle.
Mark Wilson describes this with photos and diagrams the best in his book "play great pool". Even this article touches on it but doesn't fully grasp the reasons why this stance is so effective and stances like yours can cause problems.
thanks for the linksThis may also help.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M6CZOwknf5c&list=PLdCfnbGD70QXr28bs6NnEYglN5Qf-bPzf&index=7
In fact the whole series is quite good.
Have a good day
John
all of dr. cues material is well done
looks like he is NOT saying the left foot is parallel to the shot line as you mentioned in your post #19 above???
looks like he is NOT saying the left foot is parallel to the shot line as you mentioned in your post #19 above???
Mark Wilson's book goes with parallel. Robles goes with 45 deg. But both have the foot placement about a foot off the shot line (you have to see photo in article on site for Robles). I noticed your left foot although pointed right was a bit further back away from shot line, and you were reaching across causing cue to touch chest. I practiced Wilson's until it felt natural because have the foot parallel makes your hips stay straight and limits your body from reaching across the line.
I wish I could just scan Wilson's book but can't right now. Here are some photos...
http://www.easypooltutor.com/articl...l-and-billiards/5-pool-billiard-stance-2.html
i have marks book and from what i remember (im not at home to look at it but will later today)
he advocates the right toe being along the shotline whereas the shotline goes more across the front part of my heel
I'll just say that everyone's body is not the same. Some are a bit pigeon toed while others are a bit duck footed.
Individuals hands do not all hang at the same angle to one's body. some face in to the leg, some face more forward & some face more to the rear.
The arm can be swung across the line of one's chest & it can be swung straight out sort of like 90* or more away from one's chest.
So... one person's stance may not be the best stance for another.
The thing is to find the stance that allows one to stroke straight with the most consistency & with no tendency to go off line in either direction.
Some use the cue sliding along the chest as a checkpoint or guide while others don't want it near the chest.
One size does not fit all & there are also shots, sometimes many, that do not fit the normal plan for stance.
So, the bolded statement above is what is most important IMHO & also what ever adaptations that may be needed for shots that one can not quite get into their normal & desirable stance positions.
I'm sure many have heard it said that the stance guides the stroke or the eyes guide the stance & stroke. Well...I like to think that the stroke guides the stance. I know that seems a bit backwards but isn't the straight stroke what we all want.
So.... to me, it's get into whatever stance that will allow you to stroke straight for the shot at hand.
My body has changed with age & some injuries, so my stance has had to change to keep any tendencies of going off the straight & narrow out of the picture or at least to a very minimum.
Take everything I've said here with a grain of salt but they are just some things to consider before one goes off subscribing to any prescriptions without a proper individual diagnoses.
Best Wishes to Everyone.
Rick
Individuals hands do not all hang at the same angle to one's body. some face in to the leg, some face more forward & some face more to the rear.
The arm can be swung across the line of one's chest & it can be swung straight out sort of like 90* or more away from one's chest.
So... one person's stance may not be the best stance for another.
The thing is to find the stance that allows one to stroke straight with the most consistency & with no tendency to go off line in either direction.
Some use the cue sliding along the chest as a checkpoint or guide while others don't want it near the chest.
One size does not fit all & there are also shots, sometimes many, that do not fit the normal plan for stance.
So, the bolded statement above is what is most important IMHO & also what ever adaptations that may be needed for shots that one can not quite get into their normal & desirable stance positions.
I'm sure many have heard it said that the stance guides the stroke or the eyes guide the stance & stroke. Well...I like to think that the stroke guides the stance. I know that seems a bit backwards but isn't the straight stroke what we all want.
So.... to me, it's get into whatever stance that will allow you to stroke straight for the shot at hand.
My body has changed with age & some injuries, so my stance has had to change to keep any tendencies of going off the straight & narrow out of the picture or at least to a very minimum.
Take everything I've said here with a grain of salt but they are just some things to consider before one goes off subscribing to any prescriptions without a proper individual diagnoses.
Best Wishes to Everyone.
Rick
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my bolded part of your post
i agree with 100%
like a lot of your advice...
my thing is sometimes i find im along the chest and sometime im not
which is better???
my bolded part of your post
i agree with 100%
like a lot of your advice...
my thing is sometimes i find im along the chest and sometime im not
which is better???
The only way to know is through repeated practice and competition using one or the other.
For me personally, I prefer to have the cue along my chest when down on the shot.
The biggest benefit is it forces you to stroke straight. Obviously you can still twist your wrist which can pull the cue off line, so it's not a be all and end all to a straight stroke.
The other thing you need to look out for, which plagued me when I first started, is not having the cue too tight along the chest. If it's too tight, you will have a tendency to pull off line on your backswing.
The trick here is to bring your chest to the cue, and not the other way around.
Larry,
As are some other parts, the bolded part of Jon's post is obviously true, unless you changed your mind when down on a shot & raised the butt end for a specific reason.
The cue at times touches my chest too. As I have said in one of the PMs, it is the position of the balls on the table & the line of the shot that can at times put one in a different position than 'normal'. Still being able to stroke straight at those times is what can separate one level from another.
I don't think it matters that much which method one uses as long as it is best, for YOU. Like Jon said, I don't think anyone can tell you which would be best for YOU. You have to find out for yourself or perhaps with the help of a 'knowing eye' like Frans.
Also, I don't think I quite agree with the statement by Jon that it 'forces' one to stroke straight, but it can be a source of immediate feedback & I would think much more so if it is one's primary method.
Touching my chest is not the norm for me but when it is doing so for the shot at hand, I don't usually mind if it leaves my chest as the cue would be traveling on a more flat plane & I know that I can deliver it back to where I want when that happens.
I think I'm getting too much into some specifics.
Anyway, I certainly don't see the cue touching & staying in contact with the chest as a bad thing, especially if the contact 'pressure' remains constant, as that would be an indication to me that the cue is not 'rocking' as in some other strokes That is unless the body is also moving. I like it 'straight away', into & through.
We all need to keep in mind that we all are not using the same exact type of stroke.
Like Jon said, test it out for yourself. Shoot every shot that you can with the cue constantly touching your chest with a constant 'pressure' & see if the results are better, the same, or not so good.
I'd then suggest going back to shooting without it touching the chest for an immediate comparison.
You may find that one or the other might require a slightly different connection to the cue in order to do it consistently without an associated change in something else. One thing may lead to a better other thing.
Like I suggested in the other post, focus on the straight stroke & let your body form around it so it puts no outside influence on that stroke. I think some call that a free flowing stroke.
Good Luck with the experiment & Best Wishes,
Rick
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Jon,
You may want to consider this the next time you find yourself in a non normal or a bit awkward position where the cue is tighter to your chest.
Try firming up your connection to the cue. I think you'll find that the cue will go back on line if you focus on keeping it on line using the firmer connection.
I would not suggest you purposely try or practice it. But instead put it in the back of your mind & then when you notice that you are in that awkward position with the cue tighter to the chest just firm up the connection & focus on making a straight stroke. You may notice a different cue ball reaction too. That is depending on where you're hitting the CB.
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The chest can be a massive benefit to your cueing action, but get it wrong and it could mess up a perfectly fine cue action. Fine line but I'm a strong believer that the more points of contact you can have with the cue the easier it is to develop a consistent and reliable stroke.
One thing that I'd advise is keeping things the same for consistencies sake. So, where you can easily get into your stance on a normal shot I'd pick one way of doing things, either touching or not. People are more than capable of cueing well with or without the aid of the chest but mixing between the two will make shots feel different when they shouldn't have to. Its like with the grip for example, I can grip the cue numerous ways, but I always grip it the same way when possible because I'm used to how it feels, and it gives me confidence in the shot at hand.
As Beiber said, don't pull the cue into your chest, push your chest towards the cue if you choose to go down that route.
One thing that I'd advise is keeping things the same for consistencies sake. So, where you can easily get into your stance on a normal shot I'd pick one way of doing things, either touching or not. People are more than capable of cueing well with or without the aid of the chest but mixing between the two will make shots feel different when they shouldn't have to. Its like with the grip for example, I can grip the cue numerous ways, but I always grip it the same way when possible because I'm used to how it feels, and it gives me confidence in the shot at hand.
As Beiber said, don't pull the cue into your chest, push your chest towards the cue if you choose to go down that route.
Sorry for bringing up this old topic, but I just like to point out that the last sentence from CJ Wiley's post is very true. It requires that the stroke is well timed.
Since I'm applying this concept in (most of) my shots, cue ball control improved a lot
Sorry for bringing up this old topic, but I just like to point out that the last sentence from CJ Wiley's post is very true. It requires that the stroke is well timed.
Since I'm applying this concept in (most of) my shots, cue ball control improved a lot
Some started a whole crap pile when they were trying to put CJ down.
Many seemed to not understand what CJ said when he was here OR... they just wanted to give him guff for ulterior reasons.
If the highest acceleration is before contact then the cue & tip would be decelerating as it makes contact or possibly moving at a steady rate of speed. IF at a steady rate of speed IT will be different than if it is accelerating.
To treat contact as a rigid solid force collision is a mistake that rather many make & many seem to follow.
There are many small techniques that add in the actual playing of the game but apparently this is NOT the place to discuss them.
As I've already told you, you're on the right track.
Best 2 Ya,
Rick
Hey Rick, it's good to read being on the right track!
If I understand your commentary correct, you do endorse CJ Wiley's statement that the cue should be hitting the object ball on it's highest acceleration?
After reading that post made by CJ Wiley, I paid some attention to different professional pool and snooker players (Shane van Boening, Niels Feijen, John Higgins to name a few). It looks like all those players are indeed hitting the CB when the speed of the cue has reached a peak.
I think AZ is the right place to discuss any kind of techniques that relates to cuesport..
If I understand your commentary correct, you do endorse CJ Wiley's statement that the cue should be hitting the object ball on it's highest acceleration?
After reading that post made by CJ Wiley, I paid some attention to different professional pool and snooker players (Shane van Boening, Niels Feijen, John Higgins to name a few). It looks like all those players are indeed hitting the CB when the speed of the cue has reached a peak.
I think AZ is the right place to discuss any kind of techniques that relates to cuesport..
Acceleration and speed are not the same thing. Which are you guys talking about, since they seem to get used interchangeably?
Yes, the definitions of speed and accelaration gets mixed up sometimes..
Speed: rate of motion that the cue travels
Accelaration: increasement of speed
The post was about hitting the CB just when the cue moves at its fastest (and slightly slowing down during the follow through).
Sorry for bringing up this old topic, but I just like to point out that the last sentence from CJ Wiley's post is very true. It requires that the stroke is well timed.
Since I'm applying this concept in (most of) my shots, cue ball control improved a lot
It is important to have the timing of your stroke right, and it is good to pay some attention to it. A common fault of beginners is that they start stopping the stroke before they hit the cue ball.
However, I believe that you are confusing acceleration and velocity, which seems to be a common problem when discussing the technical details of the stroke. In fact, to hit the cue ball at peak acceleration wastes a lot of effort. It is more efficient and the stroke is easier if you hit at peak velocity.
Hm- maybe a matter of vocabulary now (for me)--
isn t the point where you have the highest acceleration also the point where you have the highest velocity?
thank you in advance Bob