Tournament altercation! How would you handle the ISSUE?

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Scottster

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Yesterday I was running an 8-ball tournament. Before the tournament started I stated BCA rules were in affect. I specifically said If a scratch/foul occurs during the break, incoming player gets BIH behind the line. I did NOT mention that any object ball in the kitchen after the break could not be shot in (I figured looking at the ability of everyone in this field this rule was a no brainer).

During one of the matches this happens, and the incoming player proceeds to shoot a ball in the kitchen. The other player watches him do it and then calls a foul. Of course this is where the altercation occurs.

If you were the tournament director what call/decision would you have made?

FYI. The guy who made this shot wasn't helpless, and the majority of the field consisted of players B+ and above.
 
BCA Rules

Too bad for the guy that didn't know the rules. It was stated in the beginning what rules were being used. If that individual had any questions, they should have done so before the match. I don't feel sorry for people like that at all.
 
It's common sense that in 8 ball if it's ball in hand behind the line on the break you can't shoot a ball behind the line. I think that's pretty obvious alone no matter what rules. If your going to say the guy was being unsportsman like for getting upset about it maybe you should feel that way about the guy who watched him do it and didn't tell him before he shot. I understand not everyone who plays pool is honest though.
 
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it was clearly a foul, but I would have warned the guy. If he didn't know that rule, I can't imagine him winning
a match
 
Calling Bob Jewett...Bob Jewett To Aisle 8

I've never played in the BCA League, but I understood that ANY foul on the break gives the opponent b.i.h. ANYWHERE on the table.
Doug
( I don't have a BCA Rule Book in front of me, so please quote pertinent section, that I may look it up later )
 
Definately a foul. BIH to the other player. You have to know the rules when playing a tournament. Claiming ignorance here does not work.
 
Tournament Altercation

I agree with Nine Ball. The player certainly didn't know the rules and probably new to tournament play. What a way to welcome a newcomer to a tournament by watching him commit a foul and then call it on him. The player calling the foul has no class at all. He is the same guy that would commit foul and not call it on himself (assuming you didn't see it). Professional tournament is different, they are pros and should know the rules but this was mostly a B level tournament with some of players not in the BCA.

If I was the tournament director I would of spotted the ball he made and had the player shoot again with BIH in the kitchen.
 
Scottster said:
Yesterday I was running an 8-ball tournament. Before the tournament started I stated BCA rules were in affect. I specifically said If a scratch/foul occurs during the break, incoming player gets BIH behind the line. I did NOT mention that any object ball in the kitchen after the break could not be shot in (I figured looking at the ability of everyone in this field this rule was a no brainer).

During one of the matches this happens, and the incoming player proceeds to shoot a ball in the kitchen. The other player watches him do it and then calls a foul. Of course this is where the altercation occurs.

If you were the tournament director what call/decision would you have made?

FYI. The guy who made this shot wasn't helpless, and the majority of the field consisted of players B+ and above.
Click to expand...

I would've thrown them both out, then while I was at it I would've thrown everybody else out too. Then I would've used the prize money to buy some popcorn, twizzlers and go-go dancers. Then I would've danced around in my skivvies until I fell asleep on the floor. Running tournaments is WAY easier without any players.

Maybe that's why I don't run tournaments anymore. :D

Cheers,
RC
 
It is very simple. After the incoming player comitted the foul by shooting the ball behind the Headstring his opponent gets ball in hand. That's the way you called it. Right ?

As a note from TD to TD you need to be respectfull and set a presidence that all your decisions are final (see rule: 2.4 FINAL TOURNAMENT AUTHORITY - http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_referees
Though these rules attempt to cover the vast majority of situations that arise in competition, there still may be the occasional need for interpretation of the rules and their proper application under unusual circumstances. The Tournament Director or other official who assumes final responsibility for a tournament will make any such required decision (other than referee's judgement calls) at his discretion, and they shall be final.)

Additionally, it helps to always have a copy of these rules with you at all times when directing an event. (Get a copy here: http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules )
.

8-Ball Rules: http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_8ball

4.6 SCRATCH ON A LEGAL BREAK
If a player scratches on a legal break shot, (1) all balls pocketed remain pocketed (exception, the 8-ball: see rule 4.9), (2) it is a foul, (3) the table is open. Please Note: The incoming player has cue ball in hand behind the head string and may not shoot an object ball that is behind the head string, unless he first shoots the cue ball past the head string and causes the cue ball to come back behind the head string and hit the object ball.

Rules For Tournament Play: http://wpa-pool.com/index.asp?content=rules_tournament

1.1 PLAYER RESPONSIBILITY
It is the player's responsibility to be aware of all rules, regulations and schedules applying to competition. While tournament officials will make every reasonable effort to have such information readily available to all players as appropriate, the ultimate responsibility rests with the player. (For exceptions to this rule, see Rule 2.16.) The player has no recourse if such information is not volunteered; the responsibility for knowing the
situation and/or the rules lies with the player.
 
Loss of game. Well if he was playing me anyways......... :D I watched a guy do that at the state tournament in teams, ran out promptly heeheh.

Eric.
 
MikeJanis said:
1.1 PLAYER RESPONSIBILITY
It is the player's responsibility to be aware of all rules, regulations and schedules applying to competition. While tournament officials will make every reasonable effort to have such information readily available to all players as appropriate, the ultimate responsibility rests with the player. (For exceptions to this rule, see Rule 2.16.) The player has no recourse if such information is not volunteered; the responsibility for knowing the
situation and/or the rules lies with the player.
Click to expand...


I was just about to cite this. It really astounds me that so many players out there will spend countless hours learning all the details of how to play the game and fail to learn some of the most rudamentary rules. I do think it's forgiveable to not know what a ruling is in some of the more complex situations but scratching on the break is definitely not one of them.

The way you handle it is quite simple - You say "Foul. You cannot shoot a ball clearly in the kitchen in this scenario. Ball in hand to the incoming player." You say it firmly, with conviction and move on.
 
Smorgass Bored said:
I've never played in the BCA League, but I understood that ANY foul on the break gives the opponent b.i.h. ANYWHERE on the table.
Doug
( I don't have a BCA Rule Book in front of me, so please quote pertinent section, that I may look it up later )
Click to expand...


My bad. I shouldn't have posted after 10 hours of poker, when I was half asleep (or half awake). I was mixing 8-ball break rules up with the 9-ball rules:
5.4 LEGAL BREAK SHOT
The rules governing the break shot are the same as for other shots except:
1. The breaker must strike the1-ball first and either pocket a ball or drive at least four numbered balls to the rail.
2. If the cue ball is pocketed or driven off the table, or the requirements of the opening break are not met, it is a foul, and the incoming player has cue ball in hand anywhere on the table.
3. If on the break shot, the breaker causes an object ball to jump off the table, it is a foul and the incoming player has cue ball in hand anywhere on the table. The object ball is not re-spotted (exception: if the object ball is the 9-ball, it is re-spotted).

Doug
( next time, I'll tell my fingers to SHUT UP ) :)
 
Nine Ball said:
It's common sense that in 8 ball if it's ball in hand behind the line on the break you can't shoot a ball behind the line. I think that's pretty obvious alone no matter what rules. If your going to say the guy was being unsportsman like for getting upset about it maybe you should feel that way about the guy who watched him do it and didn't tell him before he shot. I understand not everyone who plays pool is honest though.
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I've seen this occur many times with leage play.

As said, every type of eight ball leage or rules I can think of is ball in hand, behind the line, shoot balls out of the kitchen only.

It's the shooters fault, and he should not have been unhappy with anybody but himself.
 
Scottster said:
Yesterday I was running an 8-ball tournament. Before the tournament started I stated BCA rules were in affect. I specifically said If a scratch/foul occurs during the break, incoming player gets BIH behind the line. I did NOT mention that any object ball in the kitchen after the break could not be shot in (I figured looking at the ability of everyone in this field this rule was a no brainer).

During one of the matches this happens, and the incoming player proceeds to shoot a ball in the kitchen. The other player watches him do it and then calls a foul. Of course this is where the altercation occurs.

If you were the tournament director what call/decision would you have made?

FYI. The guy who made this shot wasn't helpless, and the majority of the field consisted of players B+ and above.
Click to expand...

Ball-in-hand Behind the line implies that no ball behind that line can be struck without crossing the head string first.

And as others have said, if you clearly stated that the tourney would be played under BCA rules and he never questioned what those rules were, he is at fault.

His mistake. Not yours.
 
Rules

Anyone that played 3 games of 8 ball before knows the rules about scratching on the break. You stated what rules applied for the tournament, and that is all you have to do. Like Mike illustrated, it is the player's responsilbility to know the rules.

And you say, they were B+ players and above??? Then why wouild a B+ or above player make this very elementary mistake? Must have been a brain fart!!!

A B+ player would have shot about 2,000 games in his playing career, give or take, so how could he have claimed ignorance of the rule, especially if he played league before?
 
MikeJanis said:
It is very simple. After the incoming player comitted the foul by shooting the ball behind the Headstring his opponent gets ball in hand. That's the way you called it. Right ?
Click to expand...

Yes That is the way I called it. The guy was pretty upset, it was hill to hill and the other player ran out. This guy sure shot awful straight to not know this rule.

Evidently I wasn't thorough enough in the rules description, but like others have pointed out, and watching this guy play I would have never guessed he didn't know the rule.

I am trying my best to generate interest in big table tourneys and when it comes to attracting new players, issues like this can definately be a challenge. I did learn this weekend that I need work on my mental focus because I tried to play and run this tournament and honestly, once this altercation occurred I didn't even know what set of balls to shoot the rest of my match. (The discussion continued all the way through the match I was trying to finish up.)

Thanks all for your participation.
 
Scottster said:
Yesterday I was running an 8-ball tournament. Before the tournament started I stated BCA rules were in affect. I specifically said If a scratch/foul occurs during the break, incoming player gets BIH behind the line. I did NOT mention that any object ball in the kitchen after the break could not be shot in (I figured looking at the ability of everyone in this field this rule was a no brainer).

During one of the matches this happens, and the incoming player proceeds to shoot a ball in the kitchen. The other player watches him do it and then calls a foul. Of course this is where the altercation occurs.

If you were the tournament director what call/decision would you have made?

FYI. The guy who made this shot wasn't helpless, and the majority of the field consisted of players B+ and above.
Click to expand...

As long as you had a copy of the BCA Rules there for people to read or look up rules, it's a foul and should be called as such.
 
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