tournament question

dangerous

Registered
In honor of my first break and run out earlier today, i'm planning on signing up for my first real tournament. It's only $20 to sign up. Plus i won $35 in $5 dollar games tonight at my local bar so i'm feeling lucky :)

What's a "green fee"? What's a "C"? and "divide $100? "96 players - double"?? Can anyone sign up?

Hard Times Billiards in Bellflower
FIRST SUNDAY OF EVERY MONTH 9-BALL: $1,000 ADDED - $20 Entry ($7 Green Fee) FREE Practice at Noon - Starts At 1pm - NO Phone ins Three Highest "C' Divide $100 - Pros Go One Higher Limit 96 Players - Double

I rather sound dumb on a message board than on the phone :)
I understand that my chances of winning are 0, please, no "is this a joke?" comments.
 
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I guess the question is * should I play in a tournament with players that are above my ability?*

I say go for it. I’d look at it as a learning opportunity. Maybe you are out of your league a little but you’ll probably pick up some valuable info. You can observe a lot just by watching.

What ever you decide, to play or not to play, don’t think about the entry fee. Try to enjoy the ride and not the cost.

Rick
 
The green fee is the price that you will pay to use the tables. So the real entry will be $27. $20 will go into the tournament pool + 1000 added. The other $7 goes to the house for table time. A "C" player is whomever the director decides qualifies as a "C" player ie weaker player. The top three finishing "C" players will get 33 1/3 dollars apiece:) It's limited to 96 players (odd amount should be 128) and is double elimination (you must lose twice to be out of the tournament). Pro's spot everyone else a game on the wire.
 
$1000 added brings in the players. You should forget about a tournament like that until you break and run multiple per session. After one is WAY to early for this sort of tournament. Although the entry is so low, it won't break the bank to see for yourself.

You should focus on local handicapped tournaments at this point, in my opinion.
 
seymore15074 said:
$1000 added brings in the players. You should forget about a tournament like that until you break and run multiple per session. After one is WAY to early for this sort of tournament. Although the entry is so low, it won't break the bank to see for yourself.

You should focus on local handicapped tournaments at this point, in my opinion.

Tap tap tap. Don't bite off more than you can chew.

Most folks, when they just start out playing tournaments, do awful for a while. It's a whole different mental place you're in. Play some smaller, cheaper-entry tournaments and find your happy-tournament-place. Once you start placing well (or winning) in those, work your way up.

I've been playing local tournaments for a good two years now, steadily improving my game and my results - and it's only last night I felt comfortable enough with my game that I chose to move up and play in the toughest weekly tournament here in Denver. Just two months ago I wouldn't have even considered it. And as far as entering a local $1k added tournament? Not even gonna think about that yet.
 
seymore15074 said:
$1000 added brings in the players. You should forget about a tournament like that until you break and run multiple per session. After one is WAY to early for this sort of tournament. Although the entry is so low, it won't break the bank to see for yourself.

You should focus on local handicapped tournaments at this point, in my opinion.

I totally disagree. If you have the funds, I say go for it! Where else can you match up against the area's best players for only 27 bucks? Also, the more you play better players, the faster you will improve. By all means get in the other smaller tournaments, but get in as many regional tournaments as your budget allows to get that seasoning.

Not only that, but the fact that they are giving a small prize (your entry fee back) to C players means that in effect, there is a tournament within a tournament for the C players (kind of like High Woman) to encourage players with lowered skills and expectations to enter. And who knows, you may just win that! (But don't settle and don't cave when faced with a top player. Just get in there and make the balls!)

BTW - if they are adding $1000 based on a full field of 96, then they take the green fees of $7 per player ($672 with 96 players) and add the rest to make the $1000, less will be added if there are less players. So in reality, the room is only adding $328 to the pot and should make that up in food and drink sales with 96 people and their significant others/sweators in the room. It's a great cost-effective way to hold large tournaments.

Unless they do not say it is based on a full field, the prize money will be in multiples of the added money. For instance, on 48 players, they would probably add $500.
 
$20 to enter? I say go for it, there's no better way to bump your game up than getting in there and matching up with and watching good players. Even if you get knocked out in two you'll probably hang around and watch the whole thing and pick up some shots and moves you can work on while practicing.
 
rackmsuckr said:
I totally disagree. If you have the funds, I say go for it! Where else can you match up against the area's best players for only 27 bucks? Also, the more you play better players, the faster you will improve. By all means get in the other smaller tournaments, but get in as many regional tournaments as your budget allows to get that seasoning.

Not only that, but the fact that they are giving a small prize (your entry fee back) to C players means that in effect, there is a tournament within a tournament for the C players (kind of like High Woman) to encourage players with lowered skills and expectations to enter. And who knows, you may just win that! (But don't settle and don't cave when faced with a top player. Just get in there and make the balls!)

BTW - if they are adding $1000 based on a full field of 96, then they take the green fees of $7 per player ($672 with 96 players) and add the rest to make the $1000, less will be added if there are less players. So in reality, the room is only adding $328 to the pot and should make that up in food and drink sales with 96 people and their significant others/sweators in the room. It's a great cost-effective way to hold large tournaments.

Unless they do not say it is based on a full field, the prize money will be in multiples of the added money. For instance, on 48 players, they would probably add $500.
i would agree with linda,tournaments are the best way to learn everything about pool AND your pool game.
 
rackmsuckr said:
I totally disagree. If you have the funds, I say go for it! Where else can you match up against the area's best players for only 27 bucks? Also, the more you play better players, the faster you will improve. By all means get in the other smaller tournaments, but get in as many regional tournaments as your budget allows to get that seasoning.

Not only that, but the fact that they are giving a small prize (your entry fee back) to C players means that in effect, there is a tournament within a tournament for the C players (kind of like High Woman) to encourage players with lowered skills and expectations to enter. And who knows, you may just win that! (But don't settle and don't cave when faced with a top player. Just get in there and make the balls!)

BTW - if they are adding $1000 based on a full field of 96, then they take the green fees of $7 per player ($672 with 96 players) and add the rest to make the $1000, less will be added if there are less players. So in reality, the room is only adding $328 to the pot and should make that up in food and drink sales with 96 people and their significant others/sweators in the room. It's a great cost-effective way to hold large tournaments.

Unless they do not say it is based on a full field, the prize money will be in multiples of the added money. For instance, on 48 players, they would probably add $500.

I agree with Linda. For $27... play. So what if you are 2 and out. The experience you gain will be great. When you are playing, try to be as focused as you can on your match and not worry about what is going on around you. When you aren't playing, pay attention to the better players, how they shoot, how they get around the table, & take notes. Then when you go practice, review your notes. I also agree that by playing the better players, you will learn and get better more quickly.

So go play... but be sure to post a follow up as to how you made out!

Good luck!
Craig
 
Generally the more money for the entry fee, the better the players. $20 is quite high.

I feel it is good to play the best players you can find. However, if you are a beginner and constantly playing someone who can break and run, break and run. Or run out at their first or second visit to the table, then you wind up sitting in your chair (called the "electric chair!) and watching them run the table.

These very good players pretty much know if they are going to make a shot or not. If they can't make a shot (which includes pocketing the ball and leaving the cue ball in a good position for their next shot - or being able to run out), they will hit one of their balls and leave the cue ball so you have no shot! (They play a safety.)

They keep control of the table at all times. This can be discouraging to a beginner.

A beginner needs practice shooting balls in, practice running a series of balls, and competitive practice. But the competitive practice should be with players slightly better than yourself *most* of the time.

If you can easily win 1st place in a particular tournament every week, then time to find a tougher tournament.

With that said, I think it would be good to go play in the Bellflower tournament once a month or at least go and watch. Watch how they play. See how they leave the cue ball for their next shot each time. See how they play safeties if they do not have a sure shot. They make it look easy. The key of course is leaving the cue ball for an easy shot on their next ball. This is what they do.

For MOST of your tournaments, I would suggest finding weekly bar tournaments with lower entry fees. Like $3. These will probably have a mixture of some not so good players and a few good players. Then you will at least get a few shots at the table.

My first tournament (easy tournament), I lost my first two matches and was out. But I had a ton of fun. Went back the next week and got hooked...

"Green fee" pays for the table time. Same as putting quarters in a bar table basically.

"C" is a C player. (My next post after this will have the ratings.)

Sounds like the 3 highest "C" players would split $100. Or get $33 each.

96 players means it will be limited to 96 players. This gives you an idea of how long the tournament will run. Some small tournaments can be just a few hours. Others all day. Others several days. Also if it is a limited number of players, might want to get there early to be sure you can get in.

"Double" means "double elimination". You can lose two "matches" before you are out of the tournament.

A "match" can be a series of games - called "race to". A "race to 3" would mean the first player to win 3 games would win the match. Or a "race to 2" would mean the first player to win two games would win the match.

Another term is "in the money". Tournaments may pay say, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd. When you keep winning and get to where you are playing for 2nd and 3rd place, you are "in the money". Basically does not matter who wins the match, you both will win something.

Also they say "on the top" or "on the bottom". Or "winner's bracket" and "loser's bracket" respectively. When you win all your matches, you stay in the winner's bracket (on the top)

Here is an example of a "tournament bracket" or "player sheet" for 8 players....
http://www.crowsdarts.com/brackets/8bracket.doc

On the sheet above, the winners stay on the top portion of the sheet. Players who have lost one match go to the bottom of the sheet or into the "losers bracket".

Some tournaments may have a "race to 2 on top" and a "race to 1 on the bottom". If you don't lose any matches, every match will be a race to 2. If you lose a match, then your next match(s) will be a race to 1.

Some tournaments increase the race when you get into the "money". So race to 2 on top, race to 1 on the bottom, then race to 2 again when in the money.

Another term is "bye". If there is an odd number of players like 9, then you can't match up everybody for the first round of play. So the 9th player gets a "bye" and will play one of the players who won the first round. Basically you get a "free win" for your first match if you get a bye. Some players get upset if a very good player in a tournament gets a bye. (This is done by random draw BTW.) Of course it does not matter! The very good player will probably take 1st bye or not.

I would suggest playing "bar rules 8-ball" tournaments to start with. (I hate bar rules BTW.) If you get experience playing in these tournaments, you will learn the value of playing in a tournament with written rules. Learn the value of playing in a BCA rules tournament. Learn about sharking and poor sports. Good lessons!

Also might want to play in a low fee weekly BCA rules tournament to see the contrast. The best players and best sports play in BCA rules tournaments.

I would suggest getting a BCA rule book here (or at your local billiards store)...
https://www.bcastore.com/product_info.php?products_id=118
 
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Player Ratings (for 9-ball)

OPEN-Players
-Average 8+ balls.
-String racks together more than once in a match.
-Is a threat to run out from every ball, from every position, every inning.
-Typical inning will end in excellent safety or win.

A-Player
-Will string 2 to 3 racks.
-Average ball run, 7-9.
-With ball in hand, will be out from the 3 ball, 2 out of 3 times.
-Typical inning will end with a well executed safety or a win.

B-Player
-Able to run 1 to 3 racks.
-Average run is 5-7 balls.
-With ball in hand will get out form the 5, 2 out of 3 times.
-Most of the time a "B" player will play a "safety" which maybe hit easily 2 out of 3 times.
-A typical inning will end with a missed shot, a fair safety, or a won game.

C-Player
-Will probably run one rack, but usually not more than one.
-Average run is 3 to 5 balls.
-With ball in hand, will get out from the 7, two out of 3 times.
-Mixed results when playing safe.
-Inning ends due to botched position, missed shot or attempting a safe.

D- Player
-Will not run a rack.
-Average run is about 3 balls.
-With ball in hand, will get out from the 7, one out of 3 times.
-Rarely plays a successful safe.
 
thanks guys, and especially Billy! I will be entering for sure. I'm basically paying to watch pros play and after watching i get to play myself - will be fun. The reason i picked that one is because that's the only one i could find online near my house. I live in Hollywood, CA. Is there an easy way to find these smaller tournaments besides word of mouth? btw i beat D players all the time. I think i can beat a C player when i'm "on". I think i can win 1 or 2 games out of 10 if matched w/ a B player. I will need a miracle to beat an A player. Like him or her scratching on a break and leaving me with an easy 1 - 9 combo. Hey, miracles happen :)
 
rackmsuckr said:
I totally disagree. If you have the funds, I say go for it! Where else can you match up against the area's best players for only 27 bucks? Also, the more you play better players, the faster you will improve.

Not only that, but the fact that they are giving a small prize (your entry fee back) to C players means that in effect, there is a tournament within a tournament for the C players (kind of like High Woman) to encourage players with lowered skills and expectations to enter.

Linda is right $27 to play the best players in your area is a small price to pay.

P.S. Linda....... How tall do you have to be to qualify for "High Woman"?:p
 
Just looked up a few more posts about the ratings. I'm definetely a D level player but i don't think moving up to a C eventually will be a problem.
 
Linda says it best. Nothing to add here. She ain't the Queen for nothing....

McCue Banger McCue

rackmsuckr said:
I totally disagree. If you have the funds, I say go for it! Where else can you match up against the area's best players for only 27 bucks? Also, the more you play better players, the faster you will improve. By all means get in the other smaller tournaments, but get in as many regional tournaments as your budget allows to get that seasoning.

Not only that, but the fact that they are giving a small prize (your entry fee back) to C players means that in effect, there is a tournament within a tournament for the C players (kind of like High Woman) to encourage players with lowered skills and expectations to enter. And who knows, you may just win that! (But don't settle and don't cave when faced with a top player. Just get in there and make the balls!)

BTW - if they are adding $1000 based on a full field of 96, then they take the green fees of $7 per player ($672 with 96 players) and add the rest to make the $1000, less will be added if there are less players. So in reality, the room is only adding $328 to the pot and should make that up in food and drink sales with 96 people and their significant others/sweators in the room. It's a great cost-effective way to hold large tournaments.

Unless they do not say it is based on a full field, the prize money will be in multiples of the added money. For instance, on 48 players, they would probably add $500.
 
dangerous said:
....Is there an easy way to find these smaller tournaments besides word of mouth?...

Small weekly tournaments are advertised by word of mouth mostly.

Several ways to find them....

Go to every bar / pool hall in your area and ask if they have a pool tournament or know where there is a pool tournament. Go after 6 PM, then the evening bartender will be there.

The evening bartenders will know more about tournaments. As a rule, morning bartenders know NOTHING about tournaments or anything which goes on at night. Also ask customers playing pool. The pool players will be your best source. Take paper and pen.

Might have more luck in the San Fernando Valley area than the Hollywood area?

Can also post a question on this forum asking about weekly tournaments in the L.A. area.

You can find where local pool leagues play. Try APA and BCA leagues. Then go there when they are playing and ask the players where there are tournaments in the area. Here are pool league web sites...

APA...
http://www.poolplayers.com

BCA...
http://www.playbca.com

Once you find a weekly tournament, go to it and ask the players about other tournaments in the area. Some players will know about "this" tournament, other players will know about "that" tournament. Few players will know about *all* the tournaments, so need to keep asking.

Regional pool publications like "On The Wire" or "On The Break" will list some tournaments and will have ads for new tournaments. But will not list all the small weekly tournaments. Sometimes the listings will not be updated by the tournament director, so call and verify they still have a tournament and at the same time / day. (Call in evening of course!)

On The Wire...
http://www.onthewirebilliards.com

On The Break...
http://www.onthebreaknews.com

Also there is a forum called SoCalPoolTalk. Might ask there...
http://www.socalpooltalk.com
 
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what ever you do phone first!!!!

dangerous said:
Is there an easy way to find these smaller tournaments besides word of mouth?
What ever you do if you read about a tournament on a halls or bars web page, call first. Last tuesday I went here: http://www.metrobilliards.com/ and read about thier "tuesday tournaments".

I get there and ask about it, they haven't had them in a long time. :mad:

oh well
 
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