Tournament RANT

R

RiverCity

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I normally wouldn't post anything like this, but I'm looking for similar stories, sympathy etc. :eek: :D
I'm playing a local monthly 9 ball tournament (double elimination, texas express rules) last night. The field isn't too tough, a couple of B players and mostly C's. I got my head right before the tournament and set out to win it. My ranking dropped from A to B after the last tournament because of a poor win loss average, so I have to play the C players 4-3 the other B's 4-4. I was playing well, and ran over most everyone 4-0 with a couple of 4-1 matches in there.
Get to the finals, its a guy I put in the losers bracket. No problem, I give up 1 game to finish at 4-1. The owner comes over, I'm expecting my money, she informs me that we need to play the best of three sets. I object immediately, explaining that it would mean he would have to lose 3 sets total in the tournament to lose, but I would only have to lose 2 sets for him to win the tournament. I then explained in great detail the way a DOUBLE elimination tournament works. Meant nothing. So at this point I'm almost violently pissed, and my game goes to hell. I lose the next 2 sets 3-2. I remained polite, but told her that she has no clue what she is doing when it comes to running a tourney, then left.

I am not going back to that pool hall, there were many reasons not to before this, and this was the last nail in the coffin so to speak.
So I guess my question is this..... do you think I have a valid reason to be pissed off, and has anyone else ever faced similar circumstances?

Damn, I cant wait until Mark Griffins ex Sue opens up the new pool hall............

Chuck
 
I think if that's the rules that have been in place, then you should abide by them. There are lots of pro tournaments where the finals are one single race. This is technically not "fair" for the winner of the winner's bracket, but that's just the way it is.

I think at the point where you realized that you were going to have to play 3 sets, you should have wiped your mind of all negativity, kept the positive thought in your head that you already have a one set lead, and beat him.

It wasn't the rules that beat you, it was you letting your mental game get out of whack that beat you. Sorry, man. Better luck next time. :D

Russ
 
I had a very similar thing happen to me at a puke joint here called Rogers Lunch, the place has three bartables and a real ***** that runs the joint. I played a league match on a traveling team there one Saturday evening and they asked our team if we wanted to enter there 10 dollar tournament that night, so four of my team played and I never lost a match and would have won $260 dollars if I didn't get screwed. I played the local favorites thirteen year old son and beat him 4 to 1 and went over to collect and the ***** said oh no you beat him so bad you have to beat him in a 7 to 1 race now. I raised hello and he had some locals throw me out with a hundred and fifty bucks for the win. He gave the kid the rest which was ok with me as long as he didn't stick it in his pocket.

His teams were thrown out of the APA soon after that for violence against opposing teams and cheating. They were banned for a couple years and are now allowed to have APA teams again.

Leonard
 
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RiverCity said:
I normally wouldn't post anything like this, but I'm looking for similar stories, sympathy etc. :eek: :D
I'm playing a local monthly 9 ball tournament (double elimination, texas express rules) last night. The field isn't too tough, a couple of B players and mostly C's. I got my head right before the tournament and set out to win it. My ranking dropped from A to B after the last tournament because of a poor win loss average, so I have to play the C players 4-3 the other B's 4-4. I was playing well, and ran over most everyone 4-0 with a couple of 4-1 matches in there.
Get to the finals, its a guy I put in the losers bracket. No problem, I give up 1 game to finish at 4-1. The owner comes over, I'm expecting my money, she informs me that we need to play the best of three sets. I object immediately, explaining that it would mean he would have to lose 3 sets total in the tournament to lose, but I would only have to lose 2 sets for him to win the tournament. I then explained in great detail the way a DOUBLE elimination tournament works. Meant nothing. So at this point I'm almost violently pissed, and my game goes to hell. I lose the next 2 sets 3-2. I remained polite, but told her that she has no clue what she is doing when it comes to running a tourney, then left.

I am not going back to that pool hall, there were many reasons not to before this, and this was the last nail in the coffin so to speak.
So I guess my question is this..... do you think I have a valid reason to be pissed off, and has anyone else ever faced similar circumstances?

Damn, I cant wait until Mark Griffins ex Sue opens up the new pool hall............

Chuck
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The worst one for me was when me and my buddy were playing in a local "no safety" bar tourney. We played each other first (of course - draw wasn't exactly random) and it was single elim, so I get to watch him play the tourney.

He wins his first three matches, then they were down to three players left on the winner's side. Apparently gomer didn't get the concept of byes.

So the other two of the three start playing each other, my buddy figures he's going to play the winner...Nope. Gomer comes over and gives him $10 for finishing third. Apparently they put the names in and drew two out to see who would get the play and the odd man out was third....I'm sure that was all legit since nobody within 10 miles had a chance of beating either one of us a game of 8-ball...I'm sure they wouldn't have rigged it...would they?

Then neither of the guys who got first and second would gamble with either of us...I offered to play one handed WRONG handed and they still wouldn't play me.

Anyway, after much shouting, pushing and shoving and some stern talk by the bouncer we ended up leaving. We came back on Friday night and made friends with the bouncer and the owner and explained our side of what happened...He invited us to come back the next Wednesday to HELP them run the tournament and eventually it all sorted itself out. Once they learned the right way to run a tourney they were actually quite civilized...probably helped that we stopped calling him Gomer too.

:)

~rc
 
tournements

HA HA YOU GUYS THINK THAT IS SOMTHING TRY PLAYING 8-BALL IN SOUTH CAROLINA!!! RULES YOU HAVE NEVER HEARD OF!! WATCHING A GAME BEFOR MY MATCH, GUY SHOOTS AND QB ROLLES COUPLE INCHES, SO THE GUY AND GAL PLAYING ASK DIRECTOR[LADY]WHAT TO DO SHE ASK DID QB GO OVER 3 INCHES?? NO, HER REPLY PULL IT BACK AND SHOOT AGAIN!!!LO LO NEW I WAS IN FOR A FUN NITE!!!!!:confused: :confused: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 
I'm sorry to hear that you lost the tourney man, but Russ has a good point, but I also agree with you that the way the tourney was set up for the finals was seriously ****ed up, it's horrifying to know that there are people out there running tournaments, who haven't got the slightest clue on how to run them PROPERLY, but again it's pretty much down to the tourney director's discretion on the rules and regs of the tourney :)

I hope that you can find much better organized tourneys in your area soon, but untill then, keep your chin up and just put it down to extra experience :)

Willie
 
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I agree wholeheartedly about why I lost.... that was my fault entirely. I accept that with no reservation.
There was nothing posted or talked about that the finals were a best of 3 set. Ive played this tournament several times.... and this apparently is a brand new rule. Thats where my issues with it lie.

Ive seen in this same rooms tournaments 2 brothers who were in the finals, one of whom would have definately won. He offered a split to his younger brother because he was tired and wanted to leave, the owner refused to pay either unless they played it out. She likes to watch pool, and as best as I can figure was the reason for the new rule last night.

Some funny stories being told here..... I have played in both of the Carolinas..... :D And I think I know a Gomer.... if not Ive met his cousins Goober, Darrell and Darrell...... :D
Keepem coming!
Chuck
 
Well seems kinda crappy but still just win anyways, take the mula, leave. Next time keep your head. How do you think the Pros feel winning the hot seat with races to 11 then play one set race to 7 for the TV final? Still was a shady move on the TD's part.

Eric.
 
I played in a little 8 ball bar (single game, single elimination) tourney in Houston, years ago. $5 entry fee, winner take all, and the owner matched the pot.

There were 17 players and the owner pulls out a 32 player chart and lists the players straight down, 1 through 17 with no byes in the order the players signed up (no random draw).

The top half of the chart is filled with 16 players, most of whom had to play their running partners with no random draw, and there is 1 player in the bottom half of the chart. In other words, that bottom player got byes clear to the finals without playing a match. LOL

I brought this up to the owner and he said it was just the luck of the draw. I said, "What draw?".

Lucky for me, I ended up winning. That one still keeps me scratching my head to this day!

Stones
 
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A buddy of mine has gone to a bigger tournament a few times and once I tagged along with him. Each time there was "supposedly" a random pairing of matches but amazingly enough, each of the 3 times he's been there, his first match was with the guy he brought with him.:confused: After they did that to him the first time he made sure he and the guy who came with him signed up at different times (like we did the time I cam w/him) but each time he "randomly" gets paired with the guy who comes with him. With the tournament drawing 40-some to 50-some players the odds of "randomly" getting paired with the guy that came with you 3 times has got to be 1 in 1 million. "Random" huh? :eek:

I guess "fairness" and "random" go hand in hand at that place. ;)
 
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Stones said:
There were 17 players and the owner pulls out a 32 player chart and lists the players straight down, 1 through 17 with no byes in the order the players signed up (no random draw).

The top half of the chart is filled with 16 players, most of whom had to play their running partners with no random draw, and there is 1 player in the bottom half of the chart. In other words, that bottom player got byes clear to the finals without playing a match. LOL
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Dangit! You beat me to it!

I had the exact same experience a couple of years ago at a little bar tournament. Not quite that many people, it was like 10 folks on a 16-man board. Guy filled it out top to bottom, no gaps. So the winner of that last pair instantly was waiting to play for the hotseat.

Oh and I won that one too (being, like you, one of the folks in the main pile). :D
 
IA8baller said:
A buddy of mine has gone to a bigger tournament a few times and once I tagged along with him. Each time there was "supposedly" a random pairing of matches but amazingly enough, each of the 3 times he's been there, his first match was with the guy he brought with him.:confused: After they did that to him the first time he made sure he and the guy who came with him signed up at different times (like we did the time I cam w/him) but each time he "randomly" gets paired with the guy who comes with him. With the tournament drawing 40-some to 50-some players the odds of "randomly" getting paired with the guy that came with you has got to be 1 in 1 million or more. "Random" huh? :eek:

BTW this is happening @ Whiteys in Burlington, where I guess "fairness" and "random" go hand in hand.;)
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I knew at least one pair of guys in upstate NY who traveled all over the NE playing in tournaments. They got to play each other in the first round several times. They were good natured about it, but it did seem strange. They never seemed to think anything was rigged.
 
I played in a "ranked" tourney in SC once that was plain hysterical. It's bartable race to nine. They rank you 1-9. If you're a nine, you go to nine. A six goes to six, etc. The highest player in the tourney is a six. They agreed to make me a five, with the knowing that I might have to go to a six after my first match if I am "too good." Well, you know what's coming.

My first opponent is a six. He breaks, runs to the six ball and hooks me behind the nine, leaving the six right in front of the pocket. I kicked it in. I mean, my little cousin could have kicked this one in. The place erupted like I'd made the famous Efren Z kick on Earl. The guy comes out from behind the bar and raised me to a nine. I just laughed and took it off anyway. Come to find out that the guy I kicked the ball in on was his brother, "the best player in town." The tourney was worth $120 and then I gave the brother this game for twenty a game. Now remember, it's on a barbox.

I break and take ball in hand, if he makes three balls in a row, he wins. He also wins on the eight and nine.

Considering I probably have pretty good success playing the ghost anyway, I won another $140. However, I was asked not to return.
 
Finals

If I think I have a shot to win, I always ask very LOUDLY in the beginning of the tournament what the finals format is for a double elmination tournament.

Too many times have I been on the hotseat and had the house favorite come through the 1 loss side and it is 1 race to seven, but the following week I come through the 1 loss side and it is true double elimination finals.

I feel if I ask upfront and know it bothers me less.

One of many of my Gomer stories, I was playing in a double elim tournament with a gauranteed payout. The guy running the tournament starts paying out spots for the tournament and is fogetting about the remaining players coming from the winners side. So he is paying 17-24 like 9-12 etc. To save Gomer some coin I politely pull him aside to tell him is mistake to which he shouts, "Your a player, so just play! I am the director, let me run the tournament! You don't know what you are talking about".

At about the 5/6th match point, he realizes he paid out 8 additional spots for about $600. To his credit he took the loss out of his own pocket, but $600 was nothing compared to when he realized his mistake too late and had to look over at my smiling face.:D
 
Russ Chewning said:
There are lots of pro tournaments where the finals are one single race. This is technically not "fair" for the winner of the winner's bracket, but that's just the way it is.
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The Canadian Pro tour event I played in worked exactly that way. The Winner of the A side did not have to lose twice. They changed the race to from 9 to 11 but there was only one race.

I have seen most local tournaments run the exact same way. In my opinion, this happens frequently so next time I would just ask up front. If you don't like the rules, don't play. I would not have been upset in this circumstance since it would have been my responsibility to check and understand all of the rules prior to starting.
 
I guess I'm lucky, all of the tourneys around here are run in a true double elimination style. If you come up through the losers side and beat the driver's seat once, grab your lunch cause you gotta do it again. Plus both of our local tourney directors run a tight ship so every draw is completely random and there's no funny shit going on during the tournament
 
crawfish said:
I heard Bill Brasky ran a tournament and everyone who participated won money and a woman.
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This is true, everyone who entered (entry fee was 1 case of Bombay gin per player) recieved 1,726.00 and a dancer from Scores. The top three finshers also recieved a Siberian tiger cub and a case of Narwhal steaks
 
bigskyjake said:
This is true, everyone who entered (entry fee was 1 case of Bombay gin per player) recieved 1,726.00 and a dancer from Scores. The top three finshers also recieved a Siberian tiger cub and a case of Narwhal steaks
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That's even better than what I heard. Nobody mentioned the cub to me. The dancers were only for the top 60 out of a 64 player field. Bill said if you ended up as one of the first four out, you had to pay for the dancer yourself. Was it true that he played in it himself and ran 82 straight racks? You know how these things get exaggerated.
 
Russ Chewning said:
I think if that's the rules that have been in place, then you should abide by them. There are lots of pro tournaments where the finals are one single race. This is technically not "fair" for the winner of the winner's bracket, but that's just the way it is.

I think at the point where you realized that you were going to have to play 3 sets, you should have wiped your mind of all negativity, kept the positive thought in your head that you already have a one set lead, and beat him.

It wasn't the rules that beat you, it was you letting your mental game get out of whack that beat you. Sorry, man. Better luck next time. :D

Russ
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I think the wpba tournament rules are something like double elimination til the final 16 then it's single elimination from there....I thought that was kinda wierd....oh well....rules are the rules as long as you know them before hand=) Good Luck next time...
 
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