Transition from the Large Table to the Bar Box

PoolSleuth

PoolSleuth

Banned
I know there are a bunch of Bar Box players here, so i am asking you what you feel the difference in Playing on a 4.5 x 9 verses a 3.5 x 7 Table are. Reason is i have been playing in a local tournament lately. Doing for CRAP, and I think I could be making mistake in the Transition to the smaller table.

Any tips, hints, or suggestions...?
 
I dont know, for me it is like playing at the ocean all day and then going home and playing in my son's sandbox.
Some say it takes some getting used to, but I can reach everywhere on the table easily.
 
Big tables have more room to play position and less congested groups of balls. Bar-box tables usually have a lot more congestion but easier to bump balls for breakouts.

The key to bar-box is being able to control and plan for your breakouts. You don't have to worry as much about position on a bar-box because you usually can make a ball from just about anywhere.
 
PoolSleuth said:
I know there are a bunch of Bar Box players here, so i am asking you what you feel the difference in Playing on a 4.5 x 9 verses a 3.5 x 7 Table are. Reason is i have been playing in a local tournament lately. Doing for CRAP, and I think I could be making mistake in the Transition to the smaller table.

Any tips, hints, or suggestions...?
Click to expand...



The bar box is smaller, so there are more clusters and more situations that require precise position play and the angle coming into position is extremely important. The rails are deader and in most bars, the cloth is slower. The corner pockets are bigger and more forgiving while the side pockets are less forgiving. The balls are usually slightly smaller and in worse shape. The CB can be bigger, smaller, heavier or the same as the object balls.

Given all this, in my experience, people make the following mistakes going from big box to small box.

1) They don't adequately change their strategy to break up clusters. When playing on a barbox, it's important to figure out how and how hard to hit a cluster so that the balls don't move into other trouble spots.

2) Being able to make balls easier in the corners does not allow you to play sloppy position or be lazy and still win. Many big table players get a god complex on pocketing balls on a barbox and it leads them straight down a rathole.

3) Make sure you know what type of cueball you're using. If you can't tell by looking at it, when you rack, set two object balls and the CB along the rail and pull the rack tight against them, you'll be able to see if there's any difference in the size. If they are the same size, pick up the CB and see if you can tell a difference in the weight. If it's not a red dot or similar CB, chances are it will have something in it to trip the table, whether it's a magnet, slightly heavier or something.

4) If the cueball is larger or heavier, try to use patterns that rely on follow more than draw, and allow for errors long. In other words, if you have a path to position with follow, play it to the short end of the path because the ball is likely to travel farther than you expect.

5) Avoid cuts into the side pockets from more than 30 degrees off center. Barbox side pockets have sharp tits and are narrow. Balls from an angle have to be struck perfectly to fall in. It is much easier to play for position in the corner pocket, as they are more forgiving.

6) Because of the quality of the balls, (generally they will have chunks missing and/or be out of round) you need to develop a drag shot. In other words, if you need to soft roll something to move the CB 4 inches for a leave, it's better to shoot hard with stun-run through because it allows less time for the table roll or CB roll to affect the shot. It also will keep the OB from rolling as much and wobbling.

7) Avoid bank shots unless you really know the table you're playing on. If you must shoot a bank shot, shoot it hard and compress the rail. You'll need to shoot it long for it to go. I've found that shooting hard and compressing the rail puts the all the error on the same side. If you shoot soft and the rail is dead, you're screwed because it will come up way short. If you shoot it hard and play to shorten the rail, if it's dead, you'll be in the same ball park and make the shot anyway in a lot of cases.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I"ll add more later if I think of it.

Cheers,
RC
 
Also see this thread for reference. I got a lot of good advice there.

If it's 9-ball you're talking about, just remember to adjust your routes to be "smaller", the nature of the game doesn't change much.

If it's 8-ball, in my experience you need to know how to make your opponent take the big risks and do the dirty work. Then when it doesn't work out for him, you come in and clean up. What I mean is 7-foot tables with all their traffic leave a lot of obstacles to a run-out. Don't bite off more than you can chew; if you're going to have to try something dicey to run out, duck or block pockets and make him try something dicey. Make sure your opponent is making mistakes that benefit you, and not the other way around.

If your opponent gets out from everywhere, you need to play lock-up safes that accomplish multiple goals. The big goals are that a great safety should a)free up one or more of your trouble areas while b)leaving him no reasonable offensive shot AND c)leaving him no obvious return safe where he can stick it right back to you. If necessary, identify one such safe somewhere on the table, and plan a pattern for how you're going to get in position to execute it. Plan early, you only have 7 balls available to get you to the key shots. At my first turn at the table, I would only go for the run-out if your opponent has already cleared up all the trouble, otherwise I would look for somewhere on the table where I can play a safe that accomplishes multiple goals, and plan a pattern to get where I can execute it.

Just keep repeating, "make him do the hard work and make the costly mistakes for me".

-Andrew
 
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sixpack said:
The bar box is smaller, so there are more clusters and more situations that require precise position play and the angle coming into position is extremely important. The rails are deader and in most bars, the cloth is slower. The corner pockets are bigger and more forgiving while the side pockets are less forgiving. The balls are usually slightly smaller and in worse shape. The CB can be bigger, smaller, heavier or the same as the object balls.

Given all this, in my experience, people make the following mistakes going from big box to small box.

1) They don't adequately change their strategy to break up clusters. When playing on a barbox, it's important to figure out how and how hard to hit a cluster so that the balls don't move into other trouble spots.

2) Being able to make balls easier in the corners does not allow you to play sloppy position or be lazy and still win. Many big table players get a god complex on pocketing balls on a barbox and it leads them straight down a rathole.

3) Make sure you know what type of cueball you're using. If you can't tell by looking at it, when you rack, set two object balls and the CB along the rail and pull the rack tight against them, you'll be able to see if there's any difference in the size. If they are the same size, pick up the CB and see if you can tell a difference in the weight. If it's not a red dot or similar CB, chances are it will have something in it to trip the table, whether it's a magnet, slightly heavier or something.

4) If the cueball is larger or heavier, try to use patterns that rely on follow more than draw, and allow for errors long. In other words, if you have a path to position with follow, play it to the short end of the path because the ball is likely to travel farther than you expect.

5) Avoid cuts into the side pockets from more than 30 degrees off center. Barbox side pockets have sharp tits and are narrow. Balls from an angle have to be struck perfectly to fall in. It is much easier to play for position in the corner pocket, as they are more forgiving.

6) Because of the quality of the balls, (generally they will have chunks missing and/or be out of round) you need to develop a drag shot. In other words, if you need to soft roll something to move the CB 4 inches for a leave, it's better to shoot hard with stun-run through because it allows less time for the table roll or CB roll to affect the shot. It also will keep the OB from rolling as much and wobbling.

7) Avoid bank shots unless you really know the table you're playing on. If you must shoot a bank shot, shoot it hard and compress the rail. You'll need to shoot it long for it to go. I've found that shooting hard and compressing the rail puts the all the error on the same side. If you shoot soft and the rail is dead, you're screwed because it will come up way short. If you shoot it hard and play to shorten the rail, if it's dead, you'll be in the same ball park and make the shot anyway in a lot of cases.

That's all I can think of off the top of my head, but I"ll add more later if I think of it.

Cheers,
RC
Click to expand...
tap tap tap this is a great post. There are only a few points I would like to add.

1. On bar tables the side rails are almost never even. This means if you cut a ball that is frozen on the rail into the far corner pocket the object ball will catch the point even if you hit it perfectly.

2. Bar tables always have a lean. This can be used to your advantage if you are able to diagnose the lean. Spend time rolling balls to detect the lean.

3. The cloth is usually crap. Spilled beer, cigarette burns hundreds of small holes and generally nappy as hell. You will not be able to slow roll alot of shots and draw is almost impossible.
 
Personally ...

If you have control of whitey, I think playing on big tables is easier, except for the longer shots with my bad eyees. Breakouts are harder because they require more preciseness on the bigger table. Banking to me is different, primarily because the bigger tables have better rails (going from big table banking to a bar table banking takes adjustment and a little time). I have to be in a certain mood to play 1 pocket. I would rather play 14.1 or 8 or 9 ball on a big table.

Now, it will be 4 years in September since I have played on a big table, primarily because of my best 20/40 vision, and I hate hate hate having to use a crutch all the time (5'7").

The bar tables are more my size, better on my eyes, and cue ball control is one of the things I am known for.
 
The only thing I would add is that I feel on top of the previously well descibed strategic differences between sizes, there are still minor intangibles with every table and, if possible, for me, there's no substitute for dedicating as much time as possible on that specific table, especially before an important match. It allows me to get more comfortable with the tangible and intangible variables all at the same time.

It's always a little uncomfortable for me to go cold turkey from one room to another even if the tables are the same size, let alone different sizes. This is the most thorough way for me. Removes a lot of the doubt and allows my instincts to naturally do their thing.

Hope this helped!

Da Poet
 
The only other thing I would add is make sure you go behind the shot and aim. Sometimes when switching tables people seem to just have the angles from the big tables in thier head and miss easy pots.

Eric
 
I agree with the above. I had a shot Monday night that I couldn't see the angle on for the life of me. I stood back up three times to look at the angle and still missed it by 5 inches. I much prefer to play big table pool or snooker and don't think I'll ever make it to the top echelons of the bar table crowd. I can compete easily with the 2nd or 3rd tier players, but the best have the table speed and position routes down pat. I seriously don't want to play on bar tables enough to get that good. I'm still going to play at the better 7' tournament here, but I'm going to focus on the one-pocket and straight pool tournaments that they have at the pool halls. Just wish they had snooker tournaments somewhere close.
 
I would just say, don't move the rock too much. If you get out of line on a big table and you are a shotmaker you can sort of get back in line easier than a barbox. You don't really want to move whitey alot. I think it actually helps your 9 foot game. You start to see patterns better and you minimize cueball movement and your margin for error. Play simple patterns and try not to get out of line too much. If you do this the Bar box can seem really easy or if you really like to move the cueball alot it can seem really hard to get used to. this is just my perspective anyway.

Tony
 
In addition to some of the other good advice: don't try and get too close to your work, just take the meat of your windows. Keep the cb off the freaking rails so you can cue down on whitey....and then just 'let'ter buck...LOL
 
cheesemouse said:
In addition to some of the other good advice: don't try and get too close to your work, just take the meat of your windows. Keep the cb off the freaking rails so you can cue down on whitey....and then just 'let'ter buck...LOL
Click to expand...

I think these are good points. Even when you're able to play shape going right along the line of the next shot, there is always a trade off between accepting a longer (tougher) shot on that line at the risk of missing the shot and trying for a closer easier shot at the risk of losing the line. When you compare a tighter 9-footer to an easier 9-footer, you want to play closer to the ball on the tight table than on the easier table. That's the shift in this tradeoff for a tight table. This trade off is taken to the other extreme on a bar table because the corner pockets are big and the shots can only get so long. The focus becomes mainly getting the cueball in the clear.

mike page
fargo
 
I always find it easier going from a big table to a smaller table. The angles will look a little different, but thats a trade off for pockets that dont rattle as much. Table conditions vary, Ive seen plenty of 9' tables in poor condition, and plenty of barboxes set up for tournament quality play.... so adjust your angles and you should be fine. One thing to note, bartable balls are usually dirtier and do throw more than a cleaner/polished set. Position can be a LITTLE more general on the small table since the shots are shorter (if you try to play perfect postion on a table with bad rails, bad cloth and more clusters you will drive yourself crazy). Think more of a safe place to leave the cueball for the next shot as opposed to the perfect spot to leave it.
Chuck
 
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