Tribute Or Copy - Where To Draw The Line?

[upindaklub]

Jobs stole the mouse and simplified it, but more importantly he also stole the idea for the Graphical User Interface aka the Mac operating system from the Xerox Star. Bill Gates bought the exclusive rights to Dos for a total of $75,000, considered by some to be the greatest hoodwink in computer history. He was later "inspired" to come up with Windows which is a GUI which was originally created by Xerox. They both took other peoples creations and marketed them in the right way. Neither of them are truly technical guys, they are marketers. They have never created a thing in their lives, they have told other people what they wanted created, because they knew how to take others ideas and sell them to the masses. Gates also used strong arm tactics to get the largest computer manufacturers to pre-install Windows on their computers, shutting out other Operating Systems that were better and more reliable (IBM's OS2 for example) out of the market. Why would people go out and buy an OS when their computer already has one on it?

Thanks for the clarification. Apple took the idea of a portable music player and refined it and was wise enough to couple it with a music store. The iPod and iTunes changed music forever. Look what MS did with their browser IE and how the pre-installed it on their OS muscling out Netscape.

 

[ShootingArts]

A couple busy legal teams over that 150-200 pages of code

The cases that drag on are the hard cases, where there is substantive evidence on both sides and enough money at stake for both sides to keep fighting. The easy cases (e.g., where someone files a copyright but has no other legitimate claim) are easily dismissed so you don't see much about them.

The large IP firms are not spending their time fighting over spuriously filed copyright claims.

There were two very busy legal teams over that accidentally registered code. I know that one piece of the software containing the code sold $400,000 worth of that software in the first month. I have to assume it was fairly core code since it was in use multiple places, in very diverse software. Had the registration holder chosen to they could have claimed ownership of that code wherever it had been used. Had the potential for quite a mess since the company that registered the code did have a software development team also and the capabilities to write it. I would assume the rightful owner would have eventually won a court case but with deep pockets on the other side it could have been a long costly battle with the original developer unable to market the code as long as the other company was the registered owner of the code. Pretty sure that the owner of the company that accidentally registered the code extracted a pound of flesh for returning it, probably a nice price for their use of the code.


I am more familiar with patent messes. Aside from the friend that had a patent expire before it was ever clearly owned by anyone, another friend just sold his company for a very nice price to the people that infringed on his patent for years. It took many years in court to reach the point that the people would either have to close shop and pay for their illegal marketing for years or obtain the license from my friend to continue manufacturing a piece of medical equipment. My friend is well past usual retirement age and chose to sell his company when the other company had to come to some sort of terms with him or go under.

The small matters are as you say usually resolved without fanfare one way or another. Neither side can afford the expenses to contest it so it often comes down to who was first to register it. I let a partial proto-type I designed go out for testing and that part of my design was stolen within weeks. I had already spent years in R&D and been VP of PRI, a R&D corporation, so I just took it on the chin. Not enough dollars involved to fight it and the person that stole the design didn't have a pot to pee in or a lid to cover it up so I couldn't even win for the satisfaction and make him pay my costs.

Hu

 

[cbaumann212]

All well and good except that tributes and copies ARE accepted in this community IF the cue maker is well liked and has backers/dealers who hype his work.

And some things seem to get free passes for whatever reason.

Dead nuts copies of Whitten cases and Instroke cases don't raise an eyebrow.

Ron Thomas makes cases in the style of Centennial and no one says a word. I do it with the GTF cases and get burned at the stake by certain people.

I make a case to pay tribute to Jay Flowers/Nora Van Horn that looks alsmot nothing like the original J.EF Q Cases and get vilified and branded a knockoff artist.

Someone else builds a case that looks like a Justis/JEF Q Case and everyone claps and says great case. So there are a lot of double standards being applied here.

Now I am sure that a lot of it has to do with me being an asshole in public but still.........no need to act like the "community" here doesn't accept knockoffs. They certainly do unless the cue or case maker is not in favor.

John I dont always agree with your views but thats life. In this thread though, you could not be more correct. Good post.

 

[CocoboloCowboy]

 

[classiccues]

All well and good except that tributes and copies ARE accepted in this community IF the cue maker is well liked and has backers/dealers who hype his work.

And some things seem to get free passes for whatever reason.

Dead nuts copies of Whitten cases and Instroke cases don't raise an eyebrow.

Ron Thomas makes cases in the style of Centennial and no one says a word. I do it with the GTF cases and get burned at the stake by certain people..

What I see regarding cues is people here make a distinction between placement of dots and diamonds vs. a more complex pattern being copied. Although I have argued vehemently that BOTH styles should be off limits of ONE of them is going to be. The retort is always well it's old school and they are common design elements, which is a crock.

Regarding cases, if the "makers" of the chinese knock off cases came here they would get the same sh*t you open yourself up to. You choose to be here to defend your case, then face the axe. Regarding the GTF, there was little said about the Fellini/Thomas/Kelly look of your cases. The crux of the arguement was the label with the Chicago, Ill tag. A total effort to mask the origin of the case. That is where the problem was, if it was labled Xiamen China, no one would have cared one iota.

I make a case to pay tribute to Jay Flowers/Nora Van Horn that looks alsmot nothing like the original J.EF Q Cases and get vilified and branded a knockoff artist.

Someone else builds a case that looks like a Justis/JEF Q Case and everyone claps and says great case. So there are a lot of double standards being applied here.

Now I am sure that a lot of it has to do with me being an asshole in public but still.........no need to act like the "community" here doesn't accept knockoffs. They certainly do unless the cue or case maker is not in favor.

Because you call them Flowers. The name everyone in pool called the originals. Again, don't make yourself out to be the victim. You could have gone a million different ways with the case, but you chose the controversial way and earned everything that has been said. BTW knockoff artist is being kind.

Last paragraph, 100% accurate, at least the first line.

JV

 

[classiccues]

There were two very busy legal teams over that accidentally registered code. I know that one piece of the software containing the code sold $400,000 worth of that software in the first month. I have to assume it was fairly core code since it was in use multiple places, in very diverse software. Had the registration holder chosen to they could have claimed ownership of that code wherever it had been used. Had the potential for quite a mess since the company that registered the code did have a software development team also and the capabilities to write it. I would assume the rightful owner would have eventually won a court case but with deep pockets on the other side it could have been a long costly battle with the original developer unable to market the code as long as the other company was the registered owner of the code. Pretty sure that the owner of the company that accidentally registered the code extracted a pound of flesh for returning it, probably a nice price for their use of the code.


I am more familiar with patent messes. Aside from the friend that had a patent expire before it was ever clearly owned by anyone, another friend just sold his company for a very nice price to the people that infringed on his patent for years. It took many years in court to reach the point that the people would either have to close shop and pay for their illegal marketing for years or obtain the license from my friend to continue manufacturing a piece of medical equipment. My friend is well past usual retirement age and chose to sell his company when the other company had to come to some sort of terms with him or go under.

The small matters are as you say usually resolved without fanfare one way or another. Neither side can afford the expenses to contest it so it often comes down to who was first to register it. I let a partial proto-type I designed go out for testing and that part of my design was stolen within weeks. I had already spent years in R&D and been VP of PRI, a R&D corporation, so I just took it on the chin. Not enough dollars involved to fight it and the person that stole the design didn't have a pot to pee in or a lid to cover it up so I couldn't even win for the satisfaction and make him pay my costs.

Hu

Hu, In your opinion, if a web graphic artist creates an image, and it's used on another website, can something be done?

JV

 

[ShootingArts]

opinion, practically speaking probably not

Hu, In your opinion, if a web graphic artist creates an image, and it's used on another website, can something be done?

JV

There was a law working it's way through the house and senate awhile back that you had to prove at least $2500(I believe was the number) loss or damage to bring a case even with a registered design. That can be a pretty hard hurdle in itself.

The huge difference between a copyright and a registered copyright is that you can work through the criminal system with a registered copyright, almost guaranteed to only be a civil matter without registered copyright. You may or may not be able to get someone interested in chasing after a fairly small case through criminal channels regardless though. Best bet is probably to do the same thing as a photographer. Try to talk to them and be reasonable. If that doesn't work send a nastygram demanding ten to fifteen times value. It would seem that IP providers would police their sites but I have found that not to be true even when far more serious crimes have been committed on the sites.

I did shutdown two sites that attacked mine. Hacking, gay porn, a cash bounty to any hacker that could break through the security on my personal computer. I have to admit I used "extra legal methods". I put enough heat on the sites that one went totally underground and I presume died, the other one became so paranoid that all of the members left and it folded. Not very nice but are there other angles of attack to go after the site that stole the work? One of the sites that organized the attack against mine was owned by an individual that had to renew a few federal licenses regularly. I didn't have any real strength against his internet site but making it plain I would shut down his day job due to his illegal activities on the web got his attention! :thumbup:

Gotta be careful you don't break the law yourself but find any way you can to apply a little heat if a few mild steps don't work.

Of course I have never been a lawyer and haven't been active in any of this for quite awhile now so I don't know current status of things. I do tend to read articles about this type of thing since I never know when I might get involved in a project again. If you want to talk details post or PM your e-mail and I may be able to give better answers.

Hu

 

[classiccues]

There was a law working it's way through the house and senate awhile back that you had to prove at least $2500(I believe was the number) loss or damage to bring a case even with a registered design. That can be a pretty hard hurdle in itself.

The huge difference between a copyright and a registered copyright is that you can work through the criminal system with a registered copyright, almost guaranteed to only be a civil matter without registered copyright. You may or may not be able to get someone interested in chasing after a fairly small case through criminal channels regardless though. Best bet is probably to do the same thing as a photographer. Try to talk to them and be reasonable. If that doesn't work send a nastygram demanding ten to fifteen times value. It would seem that IP providers would police their sites but I have found that not to be true even when far more serious crimes have been committed on the sites.

I did shutdown two sites that attacked mine. Hacking, gay porn, a cash bounty to any hacker that could break through the security on my personal computer. I have to admit I used "extra legal methods". I put enough heat on the sites that one went totally underground and I presume died, the other one became so paranoid that all of the members left and it folded. Not very nice but are there other angles of attack to go after the site that stole the work? One of the sites that organized the attack against mine was owned by an individual that had to renew a few federal licenses regularly. I didn't have any real strength against his internet site but making it plain I would shut down his day job due to his illegal activities on the web got his attention! :thumbup:

Gotta be careful you don't break the law yourself but find any way you can to apply a little heat if a few mild steps don't work.

Of course I have never been a lawyer and haven't been active in any of this for quite awhile now so I don't know current status of things. I do tend to read articles about this type of thing since I never know when I might get involved in a project again. If you want to talk details post or PM your e-mail and I may be able to give better answers.

Hu

Hu,
I created a South West graphic and a certain Q dealer in Indiana decided it was nice and swiped it. But judging by the company he keeps, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

JV

 

[JB Cases]

What I see regarding cues is people here make a distinction between placement of dots and diamonds vs. a more complex pattern being copied. Although I have argued vehemently that BOTH styles should be off limits of ONE of them is going to be. The retort is always well it's old school and they are common design elements, which is a crock.

We mostly agree. But I think that even susbstantial, almost 1:1 copies are accepted if the maker is well liked.

Regarding cases, if the "makers" of the chinese knock off cases came here they would get the same sh*t you open yourself up to. You choose to be here to defend your case, then face the axe.

So in your opinion it's ok for importers to import dead nuts knockoffs and be active on this forum and NOT get shit because they are not the maker of the knockoff?

I have no problem facing the comments because when someone calls something I do a knockoff then it is easy to disprove with a simple comparison, the same initial test that a court would use, the second being likelihood of confusion. And it's easy to prove that any knowledgeable consumer, which the billiard consumer of high end cases is, would not confuse what I make with the brands being compared to.

Regarding the GTF, there was little said about the Fellini/Thomas/Kelly look of your cases. The crux of the arguement was the label with the Chicago, Ill tag. A total effort to mask the origin of the case. That is where the problem was, if it was labled Xiamen China, no one would have cared one iota.

This is your take. Many have accused me of knocking off Fellini and Thomas. The origin of the cases was never hidden, it was advertised to this forum with advertising gobbled up by Google, it was clearly stated on the GTF Website, and clearly stated on the JB Cases website.

Because you call them Flowers. The name everyone in pool called the originals. Again, don't make yourself out to be the victim. You could have gone a million different ways with the case, but you chose the controversial way and earned everything that has been said. BTW knockoff artist is being kind.

Once Joe, calling something by a nickname does not make that thing have that trademark. I called them J.Flowers for a specific reason. And that reason was to PROTECT the common name of J.Flowers rather than let someone else take it. After all these years you still don't get it. I could have named the cases anything and they would have sold just as well or better. The reason I chose J.Flowers is because when I made the connection to Jay Flowers and Nora Van Horn then it was inevitable that a competitor would have scooped up the "Flowers" brand in order to make knockoffs and capitalize on my marketing as well as the original case brand.

As for the slur that you are being kind to call me a knockoff artist please provide evidence?

If you have evidence that I have knocked off anyone's products please present it. Should be easy for an expert in billiard equipment as you present yourself to be. I am sure that there are a lot of folks who would love to see John Barton disgraced. So here I am waiting for you to swing your axe. Let's see it.

 

[JB Cases]

Hu,
I created a South West graphic and a certain Q dealer in Indiana decided it was nice and swiped it. But judging by the company he keeps, I guess I shouldn't be surprised.

JV

Did you inform that person that the image is yours and ask him to remove it? It's easy to present ONE side of a story when the other side isn't here to "face the axe".

Said dealer publishes his phone number and email on his front page.

I will bet very large that you never called him about it. This dealer doesn't steal and you don't know if HE is the one who took your image or maybe someone who works for him that didn't know better.

But one thing is clear, IF he took your image and you called him about it then the image would have been GONE within a day after the phone call and probably in minutes after the phone call.

One Sided Stories are always fun aren't they? Rest easy though because I will do you a favor and get the other side of it.

 

[JB Cases]

Oh please please missa john don' be get'n yo big bad lawyerin man to shuts up po lil me!

Calling me names and making threats? John I know ten times more about intellectual property law than you do and what I know would fit on the head of the proverbial pin. You are so lacking in knowledge it is painful. For instance, saying that you protected unregistered images on your site, purest bs. You may have sent cease and desist letters and they may have chosen to oblige. Had they told you to go down to the beach and pound sand up your ass you would have been helpless to pursue it further for several solid legal reasons.

Right now I have material cut and pasted from your site that I saved as evidence when you were libeling me all over the place. I'll make a wager starting at $1000.00 and going up from there that I can post that anywhere I please and there is not a legal thing you can do about it other than send toothless letters. How about it? Talk to your attorney and see if you want to play that game.

As usual you are twisting words claiming I said things I never did. A game you routinely play on people even inside supposed quote boxes. I haven't looked back and don't need to. I never said registering a copyright granted ownership of something you already own. That would be hopelessly stupid, the kind of thing you would say. Like the Bill of Rights recorded the rights we already had without giving us anything, registering a copyright creates a government record of our ownership of the property.

John I type as slowly as I can but you still can't seem to comprehend. I really think it is hopeless.

Hu

Let's see if I can simplify it for you.

By the act of typing something on a forum you create a presumption of intelligence.

The actual content you post presents evidence to the contrary. Overwhelming in my non-judicial opinion.

-----------------------------------------------------------------

But aside from that I have said what I wanted to say. Whoever is needing to know the facts about these subjects can follow my links and get the factual information.

 

[JB Cases]

Oh please please missa john don' be get'n yo big bad lawyerin man to shuts up po lil me!

Calling me names and making threats? John I know ten times more about intellectual property law than you do and what I know would fit on the head of the proverbial pin. You are so lacking in knowledge it is painful. For instance, saying that you protected unregistered images on your site, purest bs. You may have sent cease and desist letters and they may have chosen to oblige. Had they told you to go down to the beach and pound sand up your ass you would have been helpless to pursue it further for several solid legal reasons.

Right now I have material cut and pasted from your site that I saved as evidence when you were libeling me all over the place. I'll make a wager starting at $1000.00 and going up from there that I can post that anywhere I please and there is not a legal thing you can do about it other than send toothless letters. How about it? Talk to your attorney and see if you want to play that game.

As usual you are twisting words claiming I said things I never did. A game you routinely play on people even inside supposed quote boxes. I haven't looked back and don't need to. I never said registering a copyright granted ownership of something you already own. That would be hopelessly stupid, the kind of thing you would say. Like the Bill of Rights recorded the rights we already had without giving us anything, registering a copyright creates a government record of our ownership of the property.

John I type as slowly as I can but you still can't seem to comprehend. I really think it is hopeless.

Hu

Sorry Hu I don't change people's words when I quote them.

As for your evidence of libel I don't see how it's possible to libel an anonymous name on the internet? And saying you don't believe someone is not libelous. But aside from that if you want to publish whatever you copied from my site without permission then you would be plagiarizing it unless you use it under fair use to parody or critique it.

Instead of messing with me why don't you prove your assertion in the following manner.

Create a new website called Huey's News.

Write yourself a little bit of code that goes to CNN's website and scrapes their stories and images and strips out the attributions and autoposts those to Huey's News.

Proudly publish your real name and address.

See what happens.


P.S. You don't have rights. You have privileges. "It's not rights if someone can take them away from you. " - George Carlin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaa9iw85tW8 (best bit ever imo)

 

[classiccues]

Did you inform that person that the image is yours and ask him to remove it? It's easy to present ONE side of a story when the other side isn't here to "face the axe".

Said dealer publishes his phone number and email on his front page.

I will bet very large that you never called him about it. This dealer doesn't steal and you don't know if HE is the one who took your image or maybe someone who works for him that didn't know better.

But one thing is clear, IF he took your image and you called him about it then the image would have been GONE within a day after the phone call and probably in minutes after the phone call.

One Sided Stories are always fun aren't they? Rest easy though because I will do you a favor and get the other side of it.

Why should I have to call him? I am aware of EVERYTHING that goes on the sites I manage. WTF? You think he has plausable deniability? Its his company, its on HIM, not his webmaster, or whomever does the site.

Its bad enough he has MADE IN THE USA graphics on the cases from YOU. No where does it say Xiamen China on your stuff. But damn, he lists it as made in the USA to boot. No wonder you guys are peas in a pod.

Its not one sides, its the truth. My graphics were on his page and he falsely has made in the USA adorning pages with your stuff on it. NONE of it is one sided, its fact. No matter the excuse, its done and thats it. Whats he gonna do, offer me a free case?

BTW the image is the site with my SW graphic.

JV

 

[classiccues]

So in your opinion it's ok for importers to import dead nuts knockoffs and be active on this forum and NOT get shit because they are not the maker of the knockoff?.

Well I have not seen a case by a dealer or maker posted that I would say should be questioned.

I have no problem facing the comments because when someone calls something I do a knockoff then it is easy to disprove with a simple comparison, the same initial test that a court would use, the second being likelihood of confusion. And it's easy to prove that any knowledgeable consumer, which the billiard consumer of high end cases is, would not confuse what I make with the brands being compared to.

This is your take. Many have accused me of knocking off Fellini and Thomas. The origin of the cases was never hidden, it was advertised to this forum with advertising gobbled up by Google, it was clearly stated on the GTF Website, and clearly stated on the JB Cases website..

First, your GTF is a typical tube case. All tube cases can be said to be a derivitive of a Martin, or possibly a different case. That being said, I don't think that anyone could claim that style case as theirs and theirs alone. Its a plastic tube with a liner, end caps, cover, and sometimes a latch.

Origin, really? The main site selling these cases now has them Made in America, with no mention of China. Stop insulting peoples intelligence and don't give your friends a pass. (Sound familiar)

Once Joe, calling something by a nickname does not make that thing have that trademark. I called them J.Flowers for a specific reason. And that reason was to PROTECT the common name of J.Flowers rather than let someone else take it. After all these years you still don't get it. I could have named the cases anything and they would have sold just as well or better. The reason I chose J.Flowers is because when I made the connection to Jay Flowers and Nora Van Horn then it was inevitable that a competitor would have scooped up the "Flowers" brand in order to make knockoffs and capitalize on my marketing as well as the original case brand. ..

Yeah protect it, thats YOUR take. Lets leave it at that.

As for the slur that you are being kind to call me a knockoff artist please provide evidence?

If you have evidence that I have knocked off anyone's products please present it. Should be easy for an expert in billiard equipment as you present yourself to be. I am sure that there are a lot of folks who would love to see John Barton disgraced. So here I am waiting for you to swing your axe. Let's see it.

I was just saying that that name would be kind to what you should be called and knockoff artist is not where I would start. Has nothing to do with what I think about cases and designs. Sorry for the confusion.

JV

 

[ShootingArts]

Bs

Sorry Hu I don't change people's words when I quote them.

As for your evidence of libel I don't see how it's possible to libel an anonymous name on the internet? And saying you don't believe someone is not libelous. But aside from that if you want to publish whatever you copied from my site without permission then you would be plagiarizing it unless you use it under fair use to parody or critique it.

Instead of messing with me why don't you prove your assertion in the following manner.

Create a new website called Huey's News.

Write yourself a little bit of code that goes to CNN's website and scrapes their stories and images and strips out the attributions and autoposts those to Huey's News.

Proudly publish your real name and address.

See what happens.


P.S. You don't have rights. You have privileges. "It's not rights if someone can take them away from you. " - George Carlin http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gaa9iw85tW8 (best bit ever imo)

Bullsh!t john I have caught you doing it inside the quotes in the past. When you don't alter words in quotes you twist what people said into what you imagined they said restating it just like you twisted my words earlier today. As I have said you are a piss poor excuse for a human being. I've made my point fourteen times over in the threads where you have diarhea of the keyboard. My points are made. Yours? Oh yeah I forgot your only point is to keep posting longer than anyone else in a thread. What you don't realize is nobody else cares who posts last after they figure anyone with a small modicum of common sense can understand who has made their point.

Other entities have sense enough to protect their property. I never said I could take everyone's intellectual property just that of people like you that don't understand that an unregistered copyright doesn't even make good toilet paper. More of your efforts to deflect what others say.

I'm laughing about you whining about others contacting the mod's about you as I know you are the whining baby that was wearing out that button. Rumor has it there was some desire to ban you just so they didn't have to spend so much time changing your diaper!

Hu

 

[justadub]

So after all of this debate about copyright and who is stealing whose idea's, and the ethics associated with said.... The e question STILL.remains from the original post in the thread.

Is it ok for an individual to sell a cue that belongs to him, here on AZBs for sale section, if that cue is a tribute or even a copy, so long as the seller doesn't try to misrepresent the cue? And if he does try to sell it here, is it ok for those of you who have such strong problems with these cues to hijack his for sale thread, knocking his sale?

That point has been lost, many pages ago.

 

[classiccues]

Regarding copies when is it acceptable to make a copy?

Lets say you own a Bushka / Boti / Cantando or whatever, you and him worked the design together. Now with the value going up, you want to put the cue away. Can you make, or have made, a copy of that cue?

You give a design, totally one off to a custom cuemaker. Can you give the same design to cuemaker B for an identical build.

JV

 

[JB Cases]

Well I have not seen a case by a dealer or maker posted that I would say should be questioned.

LOL. That's a flat out lie. You have certainly seen cases that were knockoffs or highly derivative. You love to talk about Whitten and you will stand there and tell the whole forum that you have never seen a knockoff of a Whiten being offered for sale? The sellers even go so far as to say Whitten style, Whitten look, as good as a Whitten.......

First, your GTF is a typical tube case. All tube cases can be said to be a derivitive of a Martin, or possibly a different case. That being said, I don't think that anyone could claim that style case as theirs and theirs alone. Its a plastic tube with a liner, end caps, cover, and sometimes a latch.

All these cases including Martin's are derivatives of similar cases made to hold other things. The point is that neither you nor anyone else plays the "knockoff" card on Thomas, Engles, Kelli, Schon, McDermott or any other case maker who made that style of case AFTER Fellini defined it EXCEPT me. Which goes to prove Brian's original point that favorites are played on this forum when it comes to who gets heat and who does not.

Origin, really? The main site selling these cases now has them Made in America, with no mention of China. Stop insulting peoples intelligence and don't give your friends a pass. (Sound familiar)

Yeah protect it, thats YOUR take. Lets leave it at that.

No let's not leave it at that. Number one you don't know jack about me you arrogant jerkoff. You have no idea what sort of conversations I was in at the time with whom. I guess its too much for your tiny little brain to understand that at the time another company was ripping off the Whitten name and using it in China and they still are doing it to this day.

Number two you have no idea about my conversation with Jay Flowers, you were not there. I have his blessing to do a line of cases EXACTLY like his if I wanted to. I chose to do my style with a nod to his and created the name as tribute and protection. What good would it have done to advertise the connection/name and make it popular only to allow some other company to take it???

Number three, what you THINK doesn't matter. Have you ever said a word against Omega Billiards and the Omega brand of cues they sell? Not that I can see. Now Omega was a REAL brand of high end cue. Not a nickname like Flowers. Have I ever seen you say anything against Palmer USA? Not to my knowledge. "Flowers" is not a BRAND and never was.

I was just saying that that name would be kind to what you should be called and knockoff artist is not where I would start. Has nothing to do with what I think about cases and designs. Sorry for the confusion.

JV

Well we are talking about copies and knockoffs. What you think of me personally has no bearing. In six weeks you can tell me to my face whatever you think I should be called. I don't expect you to be the spineless mealy mouthed weasel who pretends to be cool with me in person that you have been for the past decade whenever you see me in person. Unlike you when I make peace with someone then it's real. I don't act friendly in person and then come on public forums and act like a major jerkoff as you do constantly.

When you see me at the show I will ask you flat out to repeat the things you have taken the liberty to say to me. No 'hey how ya doing, gee AZB is crazy huh.....nonsense" Nope Joe, you get to get your chance to be insulting and vile to me in person. Then we can see where it goes from there. I have had enough of your brand, and it's definitely a solid brand, of jerk.

 

[JB Cases]

Bullsh!t john I have caught you doing it inside the quotes in the past. When you don't alter words in quotes you twist what people said into what you imagined they said restating it just like you twisted my words earlier today. As I have said you are a piss poor excuse for a human being. I've made my point fourteen times over in the threads where you have diarhea of the keyboard. My points are made. Yours? Oh yeah I forgot your only point is to keep posting longer than anyone else in a thread. What you don't realize is nobody else cares who posts last after they figure anyone with a small modicum of common sense can understand who has made their point.

Other entities have sense enough to protect their property. I never said I could take everyone's intellectual property just that of people like you that don't understand that an unregistered copyright doesn't even make good toilet paper. More of your efforts to deflect what others say.

I'm laughing about you whining about others contacting the mod's about you as I know you are the whining baby that was wearing out that button. Rumor has it there was some desire to ban you just so they didn't have to spend so much time changing your diaper!

Hu

You know, when I see you put up a wall of text I am thinking here comes Hu again to tell us all about some subject that he is a quasi-expert in according to himself. I mean the breadth of your experience in some many subjects is astounding.

I am often completely awed by the amount of different things you have done in your life and all on a world class level. You sir are a bonafide savant and I am completely humbled to be in your presence and grateful that you have chosen to bless us with your vast experience and knowledge.

I am positive that you are the Chuck Norris of intellectual property knowledge. I am certain that God himself transported the authors of the Bible forward in time to observe you in action to determine the best way to write the books of the Bible.

Without your insight and keen interpretation of the law I am certain the world would collapse into chaos of people fighting over copyrights like the last bit of food on earth. Thank you for sharing your amazing wisdom with us. You are a god among men and I wake up each day and thank the fates that you spend your time on this forum enlightening us all.

I can't tell you how much it means to me that you took notice of what I wrote and addressed me personally. A wave of ecstasy washed over me that was unlike anything I have experienced although I am certain that it was nothing to you. So my lord Hu I remain your humble servant awaiting your next precious drop of wisdom.

 

[JB Cases]

Bullsh!t john I have caught you doing it inside the quotes in the past.

Hu

You wish. The only thing I do is SNIP the nonsense occasionally. You couldn't catch yourself jerking off.

Maybe you should write less and then it would be easier to remember what you said.