Trouble adjusting to faster cloth

With all due respect!

Where did I say anything about using "pure stroke" or "high amounts of spin and english" in my post? I looked back at my post and I can't find that anywhere.

Fact is I never said that!
My suggestion is to simplify the run by reducing angles so the cue ball doesn't have to move around the table as much and still use your standard stroke. The more the cue ball moves the harder it is to control. Slower playing tables require more stroke to get from point A to point B with small angles. A player can combat that by creating slightly larger angles. This allows the player to continue playing with the same stroke regardless of the speed of the table.

There is nothing in this which implies "pure stroke" or "high amounts of english" Please don't put words in my mouth.

Of course practicing for an hour or so on a table will help a player prepare for a match. Lots of luck having that opportunity each time you choose to play someone.

Thanks you,

Tom
 
Move lower on the cue ball. Follow thru with a soft stroke and a half tip of low instead of center. Play center when you used to use high. This slows down the cue ball for me.
 
TRWpool said:
The more the cue ball moves the harder it is to control.
Click to expand...

This is often not the case. 3-rail positions, zig-zag across table, up and down the short rail: these can be very predictable CB routes and is often the "correct" shot selection over soft-stroking the CB, esp on faster equipment. Sounds counter-intuitive but it's true. Moreover, the maxim of going "into" the shot applies on both slow and fast tables.

-roger
 
I normally play 3 cushion so pool tables always seem slower. having said that it has been mentioned before, for every ball you may have 3 or more options for getting shape (most of the time) so would choose the option with the highest percentage for a fast table.
 
You've gotten some advice. The thing is that on the slower cloth it does at times take some stroke to go two(2) or three(3) rails for positon. On the faster cloth it does not take that much stroke.

The bottom line is that you have to slow down the cue ball. You can use less top hit & more center or below center. You can try to temper your full stroke speed back or you can simply use a shorter stroke.

A slighty shorter and a bit more controlled stroke without getting 'stiff' can do wonders.

However, as others have said it takes time on the table.

I forgot who said it, but doubt on the shot can make the stroke go off in your hand as a way to attempt to over come the anxiety. Don't do it. Get up & get confident & then make a confident but under control stroke.

Best of Luck with it,
 
Table Top Joe said:
So many shots that i would normally consider easy shots seem impossible on faster cloth. Is this the case? I worked hard to get the stoke i have and was finally feeling like i was progressing and jumping into the next level but now shooting on these ultra fast tables i feel like a beginner again. I appreciate any advice the community has.
Click to expand...

I don't use much side spin on fast cloth. The CB seems to squirt much more easily than it does on slower cloth. You can usually get shape just by using follow and draw.
Hit a bunch of center ball shots using stop shot speeds. I think that's the way you'll get the feel you need. Trying to slow roll almost every shot will mess with your head.
 
Roger, Roger , Roger,
Of course there will be shots where moving the cue ball several rails will be the better choice. I don't think we are talking about those circumstances. But tell me Roger, if you could get the same position by moving the cue ball a foot or two as apposed to moving eight or twelve feet, which would you choose? I guaranty I will stay in position more frequently planning for small angles on fast playing tables, and do so while mantaining my normal stroking patterns then the guy who is planning for the same angles they use on slow playing tables. That guy will be changing his stroke constantly while I will be making minor stroke adjustments. I know which I prefer.

One way this is accomplished this on shots which require coming off of cushions for position is to use position wedges and stay a little further away from the object ball. This will reduce the angle for the upcoming shot. If you want a large angle, play to cross over the wedge or play a bit closer to the object ball. Crossing over the wedge almost assures a greater angle as does reducing the distance between cue ball and object ball.

I have never found it helpful to adjust my speed of stroke very much to suit the table. I try to use mucsle memory patterns to maintain a steady consistant stroke regardless of the changes in the table conditions. I do this to the point of planning not to make substantial stroke changes from shot to shot. Same stroke every time every shot if posible. If I am in stroke I feel confident moving from table to table knowing I will adjust quickly to the conditions using this method.

If you prefer to adjust by changing the speed of your stroke. Fine by me. We all have our ways of doing things, but I think you're making it more difficult on yourself by doing so.

Tom
 
- If a nagging voice in your head asks "should I try to hold this, or go one more rail for shape? Then don't try to hold it. You generally can't (or shouldn't) try to hold the cue ball when you know that even if it works out, you're gonna be a little longer or thinner than you want.

- Try to fall straighter on everything. Straight in is not the end of the world on fast cloth. You can pound the cue ball to wherever it needs to go.

- It's easy to develop a fear of babying shots, if you ever slow rolled a ball once and it never reached a pocket or rail. Remember that it isn't just the cue ball that rolls further, it's the object ball too. You can hit the object ball very softly and it will eventually reach the hole and fall in.
 
A Drill

Table Top Joe said:
I appreciate all the replies. I will definitely practice more using the advice you guys have. what a good pool site.
Click to expand...

1. Place the CB 1 ball width out from a long rail...one diamond below the center pocket.

2. Place an OB the same distance outside the "jawline" of the side pocket. (to create a straigt in shot to the corner pocket)

2. Execute the shot planning to roll the CB ONE diamond up table i.e. stopping 1 diamond past the side pocket...then TWO diamonds...then THREE diamonds...then just barely scratch in the target corner.

3. Do the same thing except move the CB just slightly closer to the long rail so the shot isn't straight in and shoot so the CB rebounds off the end rail by ONE diamond...then TWO diamonds etc.

4. Then move the OB to the 1st diamond past the side pocket and the CB 1 diamond below the side and do the same series. So, you'll have to stroke a little more firmly to make the shot but you STILL want to control the CB roll in 1 diamond increments so you may have to cue a little lower. You'll find out.

You could go through this drill twice on a new table in 6 or 7 minutes and what you are doing is CALIBRATING how much the CB will roll after "head on" collisions as in a straignt in shot and also for fairly slight cuts.

In the meantime, for the shots where you try to control CB roll to 1 or 2 diamonds you MUST shoot quite softely and will get used to doing so.

But the IDEA is to learn to CALIBRATE your CB roll and you will find that your "1 diamond" shot speed will carry 1.5 or even 2 diamonds on one table and half a diamond on another depending on the cloth...humidity etc.

So, the drill is all about controling CB roll distance in a predictable and repeatable fashion.

Also, if you play on pretty much the same tables most of the time, you will eventually learn that your...say...2 diamond roll on a straight in will increase to...say 3.5 diamonds on a 30 degree cut and maybe 5 diamonds on a 50 degree cut etc. THOSE ARE NOT PRECISE RELATIONSHIPS...just trying to make the point that you can eventually VERY accurately predict total CB roll distance at various cut angles if you have a PRECISE STARTING POINT...which this drill teaches.

In other words...if you try to teach yourself how to "adjust" you HAVE to have a "known baseline" from which to adjust...otherwise, you are just guessing.

Finally, try shortening your bridge distance from the CB and your backstroke length as you shoot softer shots. You CANNOT hit the CB as hard with a 1 inch backstroke as you can with an 8 inch backstroke...unless you have super-human acceleration abilities...so shortening up will help you to slow down.

(-:

EagleMan

(Former BCA Instructor. I no longer teach and have nothing to sell).
 
EagleMan said:
1. Place the CB 1 ball width out from a long rail...one diamond below the center pocket.

2. Place an OB the same distance outside the "jawline" of the side pocket. (to create a straigt in shot to the corner pocket)

2. Execute the shot planning to roll the CB ONE diamond up table i.e. stopping 1 diamond past the side pocket...then TWO diamonds...then THREE diamonds...then just barely scratch in the target corner.

3. Do the same thing except move the CB just slightly closer to the long rail so the shot isn't straight in and shoot so the CB rebounds off the end rail by ONE diamond...then TWO diamonds etc.

4. Then move the OB to the 1st diamond past the side pocket and the CB 1 diamond below the side and do the same series. So, you'll have to stroke a little more firmly to make the shot but you STILL want to control the CB roll in 1 diamond increments so you may have to cue a little lower. You'll find out.

You could go through this drill twice on a new table in 6 or 7 minutes and what you are doing is CALIBRATING how much the CB will roll after "head on" collisions as in a straignt in shot and also for fairly slight cuts.

In the meantime, for the shots where you try to control CB roll to 1 or 2 diamonds you MUST shoot quite softely and will get used to doing so.

But the IDEA is to learn to CALIBRATE your CB roll and you will find that your "1 diamond" shot speed will carry 1.5 or even 2 diamonds on one table and half a diamond on another depending on the cloth...humidity etc.

So, the drill is all about controling CB roll distance in a predictable and repeatable fashion.

Also, if you play on pretty much the same tables most of the time, you will eventually learn that your...say...2 diamond roll on a straight in will increase to...say 3.5 diamonds on a 30 degree cut and maybe 5 diamonds on a 50 degree cut etc. THOSE ARE NOT PRECISE RELATIONSHIPS...just trying to make the point that you can eventually VERY accurately predict total CB roll distance at various cut angles if you have a PRECISE STARTING POINT...which this drill teaches.

In other words...if you try to teach yourself how to "adjust" you HAVE to have a "known baseline" from which to adjust...otherwise, you are just guessing.

Finally, try shortening your bridge distance from the CB and your backstroke length as you shoot softer shots. You CANNOT hit the CB as hard with a 1 inch backstroke as you can with an 8 inch backstroke...unless you have super-human acceleration abilities...so shortening up will help you to slow down.

(-:

EagleMan

(Former BCA Instructor. I no longer teach and have nothing to sell).
Click to expand...

This is top notch advice and similar to what I was attempting to describe.
 
TRWpool said:
The best way to make adjustments from slow cloth to fast is to try to reduce the angles for each shot. If the cushions are very springy then find a way to play position without using them as much. This takes practice but no one said it will be easy. Still, it is the least complicated way to construct a run out.
Just remember, The faster the cloth and speed of the cushions the smaller the angles you want.

Tom
Click to expand...

If you are not using rails then you must being using stroke... Or are you implying that you play every out with only stop shots? If only it was that simple.
 
TRWpool said:
...use position wedges and stay a little further away from the object ball.
Click to expand...

This all depends on how demanding you are of your CB position. Where I play the tables are fast and tight, and sacrificing distance for angle would not be very condusive to consistently running out.

If you prefer to adjust by changing the speed of your stroke. Fine by me.
Click to expand...

If you read and comprehend what I wrote, that is the opposite of what I suggest.

-roger
 
Do you have a 'wristy' stroke? By that I mean do you intentionally have movement in the wrist to promote extra power?

When making the transition years ago from English 8 ball, on fairly slow cloth to 9 ball on 860 my judgement of speed was a disgrace. Not so much because of the faster cloth, although it played a part but because I had a lot of movement and snap in my wrist. So I kept my wrist locked and the cue grasped in all 5 fingers and it made it a lot easier to judge speed.

It may or may not work for you, but it did for me. But the best advice has already been given...practice time. Some people can adjust to different table speeds by just lagging the CB a few times, and others need hours to make the adjustment.
 
Yes I use the rails. Look at it this way; if you could shoot every shot without using the rails; if you could shoot every shot by just stopping the cue ball, following forward somewhat, or drawing back a bit, that would be great, right?
We all know that isn't realistic. So, what is the next best thing? Minimizing the use of the cushions while still maintaining a consistant stroke is the answer. That's is all I am saying. How do you do that?

The faster the cloth and rails the less need for big angles. Take a situation where you have to shoot a ball in the middle of the end rail and you must play position straight in on a ball in the middle of the opposite rail. If you are playing on slow cloth wouldn't you want a somewhat larger angle on that table than if you had the same situation on a fast table? By reducing the angle slightly on the fast table you can now maintain the same speed of stroke you typically use. Either way you must adjust to the speed of the cloth, fast or slow, but why force yourself to make added adjustments as well? The adjustments should be in the severity of the angles we choose instead of the speed of stroke we use. Since we must play for an angle anyway, why not play for an angle where we can maintain an authoritarian stroke? Baby strokes are for babies, and that's where big angles on fast tables leads.

Tom

Tom
 
You need to develop different speeds for your stroke that are repeatable. For example, have a speed that puts the cb to the rail and back as if you were lagging, then speeds that go to the rail and back and up to each diamond. Number each speed and know what speed you use for each shot.

Any new table you play on, you go up and shoot your normal speed to go up and back the up to the side pocket. That will often. E a persons natural stroke speed. When you shoo at the speed it takes to do that on your normal table, you will be able to gauge how much faster or slower any table is. If it is one speed faster, then simply adjust each shot by one speed on that table. It becomes second nature after a while
 
Harold Smith said:
Play for more money. Be amazed how fast you will learn the speed of the cloth.---Smitty
Click to expand...

HA. That's part of the problem. Unfortunately, I AM!

There really is a lot of great information in this thread. A lot of it I already suspected was my problem but it is always a good thing to hear things from other players that reaffirm my thoughts. I need to and will adjust to fast felt. I'm confident in that. I need to put in my time, reduce my angles and stop thinking too much about babying shots.
 
Roger,
I understand that distance can be very intimidating on tight tables. I'm with you on that. I'm older now and I have cataracts, so my eyes aren't as sharp as they once were. So you and I both must try to get in a bit tighter which makes position a bit more dificult. But bigger angles create problems too, so what you give up on one side of the equation you can compensate for on the other. When cutting across the face of a ball a bit of spin is generated on that object ball. That spin can and does cause some shots to jar in the pocket even on tables which aren't so tight.

Roger, The quote you site was not directed at you personally. I was generalizing for the masses, buddy.

Tom
 
There are tons of "speed control drills" that will claim to teach you how to adjust your speed. But, I firmly believe that the better you get at pool, the easier its going to "see and adjust" your speed according to table cloth.
That being said you can try these things :-
1). A lot of practice and actually "feeling" the shot before you shoot would help.
2). Try to learn "stun shots"
3). Watch where you are hitting on cue ball with ur cue when executing any shot.
4). Take a look at this info :- http://billiards.colostate.edu/threads/speed.html#typical
5). When playing on a table for the first time, try some "speed shots" (2 speed , 3 speed, lag speed).
 
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