True warrior? Or social media diva? The root of the Jayson Shaw debate.

Tin Man

Tin Man

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I think I've figured out why people feel so differently about Jayson's run. It goes far beyond pocket size and touches on something else: Many people, including myself, find the movement of influencers a little distasteful. Attention seeking behavior, combined with false portrayals of reality.

My daughter went through this in middle school. It used to be there were airbrushed supermodels on magazine covers and TV. That was bad enough. Now all of her class-mates can take 1,000 pictures of themselves with selfie-sticks, edit them using image enhancement apps, then post a picture that is half real and half cartoon. Beauty standards went from impossible to total fantasy. And there has been a growing rate of depression and self harm (measured by hospitalizations, not diagnosis) among girls younger than ever. It's really gross.

The same thing is happening with pool. Many people are trying to build a following in pool. It makes sense. If you're a tournament player it's hard to pay your way from tournament to tournament. Why not share a bit of your journey with your fans, and in turn be rewarded with a bit of support along the way? But it's hard to get people's attention, and it's getting harder. What's a pool player to do?

Well, to keep up they have to 'air-brush' their own performances a bit. It starts with Darren and Thorsten posting themselves completing impossible looking drills, or guys shooting ridiculous trick shots. Now the new standards have been set, and many of the masses have followed suit. I've seen it so many times, pretty soon you have some local player that records 1,000 sets of themselves against the 10 ball ghost, then takes the one set where they win 5-0 and post it on YouTube and Facebook like "Oh, this is just me hitting balls around, let me know what you think of my game..." I can tell it took 1,000 takes because of how the balls were run and how many hard shots they had to make.

This just leads to an environment where everyone is playing magic rack 9 ball on new slidy cloth, breaking in 2-3 balls with a stop shot, then posting their 1,000th take showing a '5 pack with no ball in hand!!!!!!!!' This also seems to be one of the drivers behind bar tables, handicaps, and many other things that have tried to let everyone feel they have summited the mountain of pool.

I haven't sorted all of this out in my own head. Where does it go from being a genuine warrior on the tournament trail trying to add value to their fans by sharing their journey and helping others with theirs, and end up being insecure shortstops posting up delusional portrayals of their own performances to indulge their ego and desire for validation?

I ask myself this all the time. I like to think I am in the first camp. I train for a living. As a result I have to get my name out to the masses so I have clients I can provide services for. For that reason I have joined in on a podcast and collaborated with some YouTubers. I try to keep grounded. I think overall I do ok because deep down I have no desire for centrality. Or if I do I hate that part of myself and only reluctantly do things to drive business. I told my friend yesterday that if I knew for sure I'd never struggle to fill my calendar with students then I'd go off the grid tomorrow. And I know where I stand. I don't cherry pick performances to portray a false reality, and I try not to indulge in any attention or positive feedback I ever get. It's not black and white, I'm sure I'm impacted a non-zero amount, but far less than most because I truly find attention to be a necessary evil associated with maintaining my business.

I think a lot of people feel the way I do. They work hard jobs every day with no thanks, they go home and practice without any cameras rolling, then they go play strong opponents on tough equipment where it takes a good hit to draw your ball and if you do the balls will rattle out if not struck perfectly. This is the reality for most pool players. Lots of adversity, very little glory. So to see players doctoring up equipment to be super soft and taking hundreds of tries to post up a high water mark, this is just rather confusing.

There seems to be a line crossed somewhere. When does it go from a genuine competitor sharing some of their journey to a wannabe make believing they are a champion? I don't know. And maybe not everyone cares. Just things I think about.

Getting back to Jayson Shaw, I definitely put him in a 'real competitor showcasing an amazing display and inviting us to partake in it' category. This was the highest confirmed straight pool run ever, end of story. And it was on a 9', not an 8'. So to me this is the real deal and speaks for itself. But some people have lumped it in the 'attention seeking' category. Because the table was unnaturally soft. Because he took a lot of attempts. These are the people that say Willie Mosconi was the 'real deal' because he was just doing this as his job, and happened to run 526, and he rarely went after big runs. This is their way of saying he wasn't trying to attention seek or go for FaceBook likes, he was just awesome.

I don't agree that Shaw's run should be minimized in any way, but I think I understand where they're coming from. It has less to do with the pocket size, and more to do with a growing distaste for attention seeking egomaniacs. I share their fatigue, I just don't put Shaw in that camp.

I want everyone to understand there are both in this world. Real competitors sharing their journey, and insecure attention seekers. Both are trying to build a following for different reasons. Just because they both post stuff on social media doesn't mean they are all the same. Maybe if people recognized not everything posted on social media is an attention grab we could agree Jayson's run was amazing and deserves to be in the 'true competitor' camp regardless of conditions.
 
Interesting post, well thought out. Me and my pool playing friends have talked about recording our matches then releasing "highlight reel" shots. It's nothing nefarious. Basically it's to put the pressure of being recorded on ourselves (even if no one is watching) and to be able to release some interestingly beautiful shots. Beautiful shots are fun to watch. There might be a few truly beautiful shots out of an hour of play. Most people don't want to watch entire matches, but would like to see the pretty shots we all strive for. If we ever decide to do so, it won't be about seeming better than we are, just a fun thing, along with being able to review footage and see where we went wrong or right.

The silly thing is, most true players realize how hard it actually is to do something perfectly in pool. I'm not gonna rag on a guy for missing something in a drill and continuing with BIH. Drills are about getting better, not being superhuman. Unfortunately the bar is raised so high that if you were to see a famous youtuber miss a shot, you will also see them be roasted mercilessly. It's needless and this "fantasy perfection" is really off putting. Imagine you ran your first rack but didn't put on a 2 pack. In the modern social media fueled world, instead of celebrating such an accomplishment, many will feel inadequate. Gotta stay grounded and accept accomplishments as they come. Improvement is slow going so anythings good is worth celebrating. Pool can be cruel enough without beating ourselves up all the time.
 
Tin Man said:
I think I've figured out why people feel so differently about Jayson's run. It goes far beyond pocket size and touches on something else: Many people, including myself, find the movement of influencers a little distasteful. Attention seeking behavior, combined with false portrayals of reality.

My daughter went through this in middle school. It used to be there were airbrushed supermodels on magazine covers and TV. That was bad enough. Now all of her class-mates can take 1,000 pictures of themselves with selfie-sticks, edit them using image enhancement apps, then post a picture that is half real and half cartoon. Beauty standards went from impossible to total fantasy. And there has been a growing rate of depression and self harm (measured by hospitalizations, not diagnosis) among girls younger than ever. It's really gross.

The same thing is happening with pool. Many people are trying to build a following in pool. It makes sense. If you're a tournament player it's hard to pay your way from tournament to tournament. Why not share a bit of your journey with your fans, and in turn be rewarded with a bit of support along the way? But it's hard to get people's attention, and it's getting harder. What's a pool player to do?

Well, to keep up they have to 'air-brush' their own performances a bit. It starts with Darren and Thorsten posting themselves completing impossible looking drills, or guys shooting ridiculous trick shots. Now the new standards have been set, and many of the masses have followed suit. I've seen it so many times, pretty soon you have some local player that records 1,000 sets of themselves against the 10 ball ghost, then takes the one set where they win 5-0 and post it on YouTube and Facebook like "Oh, this is just me hitting balls around, let me know what you think of my game..." I can tell it took 1,000 takes because of how the balls were run and how many hard shots they had to make.

This just leads to an environment where everyone is playing magic rack 9 ball on new slidy cloth, breaking in 2-3 balls with a stop shot, then posting their 1,000th take showing a '5 pack with no ball in hand!!!!!!!!' This also seems to be one of the drivers behind bar tables, handicaps, and many other things that have tried to let everyone feel they have summited the mountain of pool.

I haven't sorted all of this out in my own head. Where does it go from being a genuine warrior on the tournament trail trying to add value to their fans by sharing their journey and helping others with theirs, and end up being insecure shortstops posting up delusional portrayals of their own performances to indulge their ego and desire for validation?

I ask myself this all the time. I like to think I am in the first camp. I train for a living. As a result I have to get my name out to the masses so I have clients I can provide services for. For that reason I have joined in on a podcast and collaborated with some YouTubers. I try to keep grounded. I think overall I do ok because deep down I have no desire for centrality. Or if I do I hate that part of myself and only reluctantly do things to drive business. I told my friend yesterday that if I knew for sure I'd never struggle to fill my calendar with students then I'd go off the grid tomorrow. And I know where I stand. I don't cherry pick performances to portray a false reality, and I try not to indulge in any attention or positive feedback I ever get. It's not black and white, I'm sure I'm impacted a non-zero amount, but far less than most because I truly find attention to be a necessary evil associated with maintaining my business.

I think a lot of people feel the way I do. They work hard jobs every day with no thanks, they go home and practice without any cameras rolling, then they go play strong opponents on tough equipment where it takes a good hit to draw your ball and if you do the balls will rattle out if not struck perfectly. This is the reality for most pool players. Lots of adversity, very little glory. So to see players doctoring up equipment to be super soft and taking hundreds of tries to post up a high water mark, this is just rather confusing.

There seems to be a line crossed somewhere. When does it go from a genuine competitor sharing some of their journey to a wannabe make believing they are a champion? I don't know. And maybe not everyone cares. Just things I think about.

Getting back to Jayson Shaw, I definitely put him in a 'real competitor showcasing an amazing display and inviting us to partake in it' category. This was the highest confirmed straight pool run ever, end of story. And it was on a 9', not an 8'. So to me this is the real deal and speaks for itself. But some people have lumped it in the 'attention seeking' category. Because the table was unnaturally soft. Because he took a lot of attempts. These are the people that say Willie Mosconi was the 'real deal' because he was just doing this as his job, and happened to run 526, and he rarely went after big runs. This is their way of saying he wasn't trying to attention seek or go for FaceBook likes, he was just awesome.

I don't agree that Shaw's run should be minimized in any way, but I think I understand where they're coming from. It has less to do with the pocket size, and more to do with a growing distaste for attention seeking egomaniacs. I share their fatigue, I just don't put Shaw in that camp.

I want everyone to understand there are both in this world. Real competitors sharing their journey, and insecure attention seekers. Both are trying to build a following for different reasons. Just because they both post stuff on social media doesn't mean they are all the same. Maybe if people recognized not everything posted on social media is an attention grab we could agree Jayson's run was amazing and deserves to be in the 'true competitor' camp regardless of conditions.
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This post should be in the Hall of Fame.
 
You have yourself a very good post here BUT I don't think anyone on here is putting Jayson Shaw in the "attention seeking" camp as you imply. If anything, AZ would be the one place where everyone would agree that the guy is an absolute beast! What he accomplished on that table was a Hurculean feat. Just to be able to keep going over and over after run ending misses or scratches is just mind boggling. Any criticism of this run/event has been directed at the promoter and his team, and in the big scheme of things those critiques have been quite minimal in comparison to past runs (ahem ahem).
 
Tinman I agree with most of what you have posted.

Appleton and or Thorsten showing impossible drills becoming possible shows that with practice amazing results can be achieved. Tinman has to agree with that message?

This whole high run show is a dig at John Scmidt and Mosconi. Maybe others see it differently but I believe the incentive to run it is not purely to increase interest in pocket billiards,14.1,or in the players participating.
 
This is an excellent and insightful post, Demetrius. I believe your comments are relevant not only to pool, but to social media in general. The internet started out as an exciting new form of communication, filled with endless possibilities. Now, however, it is evolving into another form of reality television-- over produced content with distorted views of facts and events that lead us to question what's real and what's staged.
 
Thank you all for the thoughtful conversation.

I am not the judge to sort people out into the various camps. There are plenty of genuine motivations to showcase high watermark content. I agree that Thorsten and Darren are showcasing a display of what is possible designed to inspire. As for highlight reels, I agree that just because it took many attempts doesn't negate the skill it took. If someone takes 1,000 tries to beat the 10 ball ghost, they still must be good enough that a 5-0 performance is in their range as most pool players couldn't beat the 10 ball ghost with infinite tries.

There are a lot of directions a conversation like this can go as there are so many underlying and overlapping themes. One is our personal narrative, the story of who we are, why we compete, what we are trying to achieve. Another is human nature, our desires, our ego, what is healthy consumption versus compulsive indulgence. These overlap with the mental game, how our mindsets and narratives can create negative emotions that interfere with peak performance and fill us with anger and fear instead of joy and contentment. Ironically I may do a podcast and dig in to some of these threads because I think they are worth discussing long form.

To me the answer is balance. The idea of the middle road isn't mine, but it's one that I believe has stood the test of time. I don't believe in using attention as a medication to replace a calm, humble, soft-spoken self assurance. But I also don't believe in being so afraid of our own human nature that we sabotage our performances flee the spotlight and because we are afraid of losing control of ourselves. The answer to the temptations of our world doesn't have to lie in joining a monastery and hiding from the world, it can be living in the world while developing a habit of continuously letting go of those things that try to get a hold of us.

A couple of personal examples. For me I make fun of my desire to be a 'shiny-shirt-guy'. I watch some of the players who have shiny shirts covered with patches from sponsors and sign autographs and part of me wants to be one of them. I call them shiny-shirt-people because it makes it easier for me to laugh at those desires within myself. If I ever become a shiny shirt person it will be an unavoidable consequence of passionately pursuing my goals, not because those ARE my goals.

Another is that I have been trying to play straight pool again and have been playing some very strong pool. I've posted a number of 50s and 60s, and hit a couple of 70s yesterday. I PROMISE you that a lot of the shots that my runs ended on would've gone on most tables. My table isn't tight, but it is stingy, and balls that aren't hit very cleanly just don't fall. I realized that while I believe I can post a 100 with a lot of persistence, I am no threat to setting a new high run or threatening the 200 mark (which has always been an interesting goal to me).

So I was faced with a choice. Do I go to this local pool I know of that has 5" holes with balls that spread really easy on the break, and put in repeated sessions there to try to hit 200? Do I practice straight pool at home and take quiet satisfaction that my 50-70 ball runs are very clean both in terms of strategy and execution? Or do I forget about straight pool and decide that I don't need to participate in a flexing contest of posting up big numbers altogether? If I go to soft equipment and go for the 200, can I do so in a way that is about the personal challenge and feeling of accomplishment it would be to hit that number, as opposed to being able to resume drop?

I've decided for myself I'm going to put straight pool on the back burner. I change my cloth about once a year and for the first 30 days it plays pretty soft, by 60 days it's medium-tough, and by 3-4 months and beyond it gets downright tough. I have decided that I do like the idea of trying to post a big run for myself. Rather than chase it at a poolroom, I'll just wait until I change my cloth and have the next 30-40 days be 'straight pool month'. I agree with those who think straight pool should be played on easy-medium equipment, not stingy. I'm not doing this to flex, only to give myself some time to enjoy the game of straight pool in conditions that I believe are appropriate. Then if I post a huge run I can enjoy that accomplishment as a fulfillment of the work I've put into my game and the road I've enjoyed to get there. I don't think I'll tell anyone besides my best friend if I break a huge number, but if others ask what my high run is I'll answer truthfully and won't pretend not to be proud of the work I did to get there.

Again, I am not here to judge the paths others take. I am just here to try to walk the best road I can for myself. And as much as possible I love meeting, talking to, and working with those who aren't in the spotlight, who are fighting the good fight because it's meaningful to them, not chasing the rewards they think it will bring.
 
I recognize the irony of talking about quietly hitting goals on a podcast or publicly on AZB. Am I trying to help others with their pool journey, or am I seeking attention? I constantly challenge myself. It's a mess.

People have told me they enjoy my content. I enjoy creating it. I think not having posting or sharing pool insights or having these conversations falls into the camp of 'running from desire'. But it is a weird one.

That is why for marketing I partner with people who have followings. Cue it Up Podcast, Lil Chris, Dr. Dave, etc. These folks have built platforms and followings. If they want to allow me to collaborate a bit then it allows me to help grow my business and bring some of my approaches to pool to the world to hopefully help a few folks out. I have thought about building a platform directly. This would allow me more freedom (like an actor that self-produces) but I can't do it. For myself I couldn't build a following. Even if it was a net positive to those who followed me, I just can't be the guy to do it. I guess I struggle with ego too much to go down that path. Like an alcoholic shouldn't go into bars. I think I'm sober these days, but I don't really trust myself to put myself in certain situations.

As for my AZB posts, I consider this a natural conversation of things on my mind with my circle of friends. Honestly I'm a bit uneasy about the 'like' button on AZB. It probably engages more posts because people like the feeling of recognition when they see the notification bell, but it's a slippery slope. Is incentivizing participation with dopamine shots a negative if it achieves more content? Or do the ends not justify the means?

I don't have answers. I think it's time to shut up and go back to work. That feels right to me.
 
I love the irony in your posts but I totally relate to you. I swear I'm the amateur/recreational version of you. Of course without the skill, passion, insight, or humor. It's reading your insights that most makes me want to spend a weekend getting instructed by you. If only I could get rid of all of my stupid responsibilities. I could totally live stream our weekend TO THE WORLD and become a major star!!!
 
alphadog said:
Tinman I agree with most of what you have posted.

Appleton and or Thorsten showing impossible drills becoming possible shows that with practice amazing results can be achieved. Tinman has to agree with that message?

This whole high run show is a dig at John Scmidt and Mosconi. Maybe others see it differently but I believe the incentive to run it is not purely to increase interest in pocket billiards,14.1,or in the players participating.
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You would be wrong.

Lou Figueroa
 
Tin Man said:
As for my AZB posts, I consider this a natural conversation of things on my mind with my circle of friends. Honestly I'm a bit uneasy about the 'like' button on AZB. It probably engages more posts because people like the feeling of recognition when they see the notification bell, but it's a slippery slope. Is incentivizing participation with dopamine shots a negative if it achieves more content? Or do the ends not justify the means?

I don't have answers. I think it's time to shut up and go back to work. That feels right to me.
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I feel as if AZB in general is just a place to talk shop with fellow pool lovers. There are those who do it for "fame" but it's really easy to see and categorize into the appropriate category. I use the like button as something to say, hey, well thought out post, or that's interesting never thought about it that way, or yep I feel the same way. It's just to give a little "yep" to a post I feel was good to the discussion. Dopamine is a helluva drug, but it's existed before "like" buttons so who knows. It's pretty easy to see through fakery and like begets like so one can get into an echo chamber quite quickly if not on guard for such things.
 
alphadog said:
This whole high run show is a dig at John Scmidt and Mosconi. Maybe others see it differently but I believe the incentive to run it is not purely to increase interest in pocket billiards,14.1,or in the players participating.
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Sure does look like it doesn't it?

1. The initial discussion by Bobby and Lou about this high-run event was on a thread about whether John Schmidt's 626 was 'legit'. Bobby may indeed have been planning this for 20 years, but the comments made it sound like it was Schmidt breaking the Mosconi record that drove it to happen now.

2. Instead of saying that it was by invitation only to a few top players and eventually could be opened up to other player's (including Schmidt ) , there were lame comments about Schmidt not inviting them to participate in his event, and other comments that reinforced the 'feud' aspect. Another shot-in-the-foot that created unnecessary controversy.

3. An interesting one that was posted elsewhere, is that when Shaw set a new record, there was an immediate new forum thread called "Jayson Shaw sets new 14.1 World Record!". But Lou started his own thread titled "Jayson Shaw beats 626", and i guess that title reflects what was important to him.

None of this is a big deal, and it's all fair. Entertainment events are driven by no shortage of factors, some less above board than others. I've read some of the history of snooker events and some of issues and feuds that drove those in the 1980s and 1990s would make your hair stand up.

This was an interesting event though, and Jayson certainly has great skills..

On the payout, I had holped the cash award would be something fitting like "$100/ball for any run that sets a new record". That would be a challenge that could be public and drum up interest, instead of the "not transparent', hidden-from-view' cash payout.

Are there still plans to invite other players to try the high-run challenge? How much money can Bobby spare to reward new records set by Filler, Gorst, et al, ? Or now that the record is held by someone other than Schmidt, will it be a different type of event like a head-to-end contest or round robin tournament instead?

If there will be new attempts at a record, will there be a hiatus now before new players can try, to give some time to capitalize on any monetization? Otherwise, Jayson's record could be surpassed next week, affecting his monetization.

The debate about how the monetization could or should happen is interesting in itself. There is no way of having a video on a DVD or behind a paywall that can't be copied. It can be made difficult sometimes, but if someone's interested, anything can be copied. This has been shown many times, so whatever happens, I'll be watching to see how long before it's freely available on Youtube or elsewhere. (I've noticed that there are some pirated movies on Youtube, and instead of using the movie title which would attract lawyers, they just title the video, "A sci-fi film with Will Smith", "A romance with Denzel", etc., so maybe you'll see a video titled "Jayson plays pool".)

Yup, lots of interesting questions....
 
gerryf said:
Sure does look like it doesn't it?

3. An interesting one that was posted elsewhere, is that when Shaw set a new record, there was an immediate new forum thread called "Jayson Shaw sets new 14.1 World Record!". But Lou started his own thread titled "Jayson Shaw beats 626", and i guess that title reflects what was important to him.
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I believe that might have been out of respect for Cranfield's run of 768. Apparently, Bobby recognizes that as the highest run. The owner of Street Lights Billiards Academy, which was hosting the event, was the person who was using his cell phone to live stream the computer monitor that was recording the high run. He began celebrating Jayson's "world record" run, but then he quickly changed his phrasing about the accomplishment. It was obvious that someone told him to stop saying that.
 
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I see all of this as fun.
If anyone watches those drills/ trick shots/ packages put together and thinks they are real, I've got a nice condo in Gotham City for sale!
I see it as entertainment nothing more, nothing less.
 
Tin Man said:
Well, to keep up they have to 'air-brush' their own performances a bit.
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Tons of great comments in this thread TinMan. I want to comment on the above.

Speaking from my own experience here on AZB. I understand why some may feel they should air-brush their efforts. Not many are willing to display haphazard efforts and/or subpair performances when so many are willing to bash them for simply being honest.

Nothing like being critiqued by those experts who wouldn't dare expose themselves to the same scrutiny. The internet is mostly filled with people just looking to entertain themselves by tearing others down. If you don't have the skin to stand up against the heat (amateur), or simply don't have option to have the bad PR (pros) then you're doing yourself a disservice.
 
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