Trying to get answers on cloth speeds!

tjlmbklr

tjlmbklr

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I hand picked 10 of the top worsted high speed clothes and I would like a rating on speed only from a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the fastest and 1 being the slowest. An example of a 10 would be something used on a carom table.

If you feel 2 or more clothes are equal then feel free to give them the same #. After you pick there # rating feel free to add a comment on the camparisons or quality of the clothes.

Thank you.

Sterling
Mali
Championship Tour edition
Simonis 760
Simonis 860
Simonis 300
Granito "M"
Granito Basalt
Granito Tournament 2000
Brunswick Centenial
 
tjlmbklr said:
I hand picked 10 of the top worsted high speed clothes and I would like a rating on speed only from a scale of 1 to 10, 10 being the fastest and 1 being the slowest. An example of a 10 would be something used on a carom table.

If you feel 2 or more clothes are equal then feel free to give them the same #. After you pick there # rating feel free to add a comment on the camparisons or quality of the clothes.

Thank you.

Sterling
Mali
Championship Tour edition
Simonis 760
Simonis 860
Simonis 300
Granito "M"
Granito Basalt
Granito Tournament 2000
Brunswick Centenial
Click to expand...

I would break it down in the following manner, 1 slowest - 5 fastest.

1. Sterling - Mali

2. Brunswick Centennial

3. Championship Tour Edition - Wears quicker than Simonis Near the speed of Siomonis 860 - Granito Tournament 2000

4. Simonis 760 - Granito Basalt

5. Granito M

6. Simonis 300 Rapid

Remember this is only my opinion, the only cloth I have not used is the Granito Tournament 2000 cloth, but I have talked to others who have.

The Simonis 300 and the Granito M are used for 3-Cushion billiards, these cloths are a little to fast for a pool table.

If want a fast cloth for pool I would recommend Simonis 760, this is about the fastest pool cloth available. I would forget about the Sterling and the Mali cloths unless your goal is play on carpet.

The Championship cloth is OK and real slow, however Simonis cloth will wear better and last longer than any other cloth long term.

Manwon
 
I think Granito M is faster than Simonis 300 by all of about a foot to 18".

But for some reason other than the cloth is free the great 3C players are
putting Simonis on their tables. Maybe since Simonis sponcers the 3C tournaments so they want to have that cloth. who knows

After that I have no idea. Can't play pool worth a _____
 
Simonis 300 is by far the fastest.

At our shop we had a table with Mali Worsted. Not sure of the actual name. But it was super fast. Much faster than Simonis 860.

Championship Tour Edition and Brunswick Centenial are pretty much the same. I believe Centenial is suppose to be Tour Edition with a teflon or silicon coating. It is faster than 760 I feel.

I've always felt Granito and Simonis 860 to be close to the same. They have a similar weave pattern and stretch about the same.

If you want great speed for a home table but not super fast then I recomend Simonis 760. It's still durable. For a pool hall I'd do Simonis 860.

If you are worried about stains or spills then Centenial is fine or just get TE and spray it with Silicon.

I've never seen a benifit to Granito compared to Simonis unless their is a price difference.

Sorry I didn't scale it but I'm not too familiar with exact grades. We mainly use Championship for slow cloth or Simonis for fast. If we have a Carom or Snooker we'll do 760 unless they request 300.
 
3kushn said:
I think Granito M is faster than Simonis 300 by all of about a foot to 18".

But for some reason other than the cloth is free the great 3C players are
putting Simonis on their tables. Maybe since Simonis sponcers the 3C tournaments so they want to have that cloth. who knows

After that I have no idea. Can't play pool worth a _____
Click to expand...

We have five Verhofen heated tables up here in Tacoma, Washington.

We have had 2 3-Cushion National Championships, and 1 World Championship and by far you are right the players prefer Simonis over Granito.

We have used both and at least on our tables the Siomonis 300 Rapid is noticeably faster.

It may have something to do with the Humidity from all the rain up here in the Northwest or it may be the weave of the cloth.
For all major events we have had one of the Top 3-Cushion Mechanic's in the country cover the tables, the gentleman is South Korean and currently lives in LA, California, his name is IN Soo Park.

Once while Mr. Park was stretching cloth on one of the tables the cloth split in half from the stretch, the cloth was Granito M, I have never seen this happen before or since, However I only use simonis, Mr Park told me that he has seen this happen many times using Granito M.

Have a good day!!!

Manwon
 
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Well I'll sure stay away from Granito M. I stretch the hell out of cloth. You're right there will be a lot of variables that will come into play. Amount of stretch, stretch pattern, type of playing surface under the cloth, type of balls, humidity level etc...

I consider myself an experienced mechanic and I have worked with more cloths then I have played on. Like Centennial cloth... I have never played on it so I don't know the speed. Sterling... Put it on a couple tables where the customer bought it over the Internet, never played on it. This is how I would number the ones I am familiar with. I will list them respectively from slowest to fastest.

Championship -Tour Edition
Mali speed cloth (worsted)
Granito Basalt
Simonis 860
Granito Tournament 2000
Simonis 760
Simonis 300
 
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manwon said:
If want a fast cloth for pool I would recommend Simonis 760, this is about the fastest pool cloth available. I would forget about the Sterling and the Mali cloths unless your goal is play on carpet.

The Championship cloth is OK and real slow, however Simonis cloth will wear better and last longer than any other cloth long term.

Manwon
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I was told by a local table mech that 760 is still slower ther Granito 2000. We shot with the 2000 at our pool hall and that is damn fast.
 
I think the two are so similar in speed you would almost have to set the two up side by side to see if there are any differences.
 
Poolschool said:
I think the two are so similar in speed you would almost have to set the two up side by side to see if there are any differences.
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Ok on that note then; which is more durable?
 
7 Ft. Valley

This thread is very interesting. I have 11 7 foot Valley and have always used Championship tour Edition. I have tried Simonis 860 but could not get any decent wear out of it. What is everyone else using on there 7 foot tables?
 
tjlmbklr said:
Ok on that note then; which is more durable?
Click to expand...

I would have to say Gorina Tournament 2000 is more durable by the touch. But honestly I'm not sure how it wears.
 
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I've been recovering pool tables for over 23 years. I pioneered the Simonis 760 cloth in the Pacific North West long before there was even an 860 Simonis. As far as that goes, Greg at Diamond was very instramental in the design of the Simonis 860 cloth long before it was ever produced. But in my 23years of being a billiards technician and vendor of pool tables, the Championship Tour Edition is the most durable cloth there is for bar box pool tables..I should know..I've put it on tables side by side with Simonis 860 cloth when the tables made the same amount of money. I had to change the 860 long before the Tour Edition because of the cosmetic look of the 860, and because the miss cue marks/nicks were more obvious on the 860. Having said what I've said, my choice cloth to play 14.1 on is still, and always will be the Simonis 760. And one other thing, don't forget the Championship Tour Edition is noticable cheaper than Simonis. On a personal note...I think all these cloths are over priced, but then again...I'm not the one paying for it...the bar/pool hall owners are!
 
realkingcobra said:
I've been recovering pool tables for over 23 years. I pioneered the Simonis 760 cloth in the Pacific North West long before there was even an 860 Simonis. As far as that goes, Greg at Diamond was very instramental in the design of the Simonis 860 cloth long before it was ever produced. But in my 23years of being a billiards technician and vendor of pool tables, the Championship Tour Edition is the most durable cloth there is for bar box pool tables..I should know..I've put it on tables side by side with Simonis 860 cloth when the tables made the same amount of money. I had to change the 860 long before the Tour Edition because of the cosmetic look of the 860, and because the miss cue marks/nicks were more obvious on the 860. Having said what I've said, my choice cloth to play 14.1 on is still, and always will be the Simonis 760. And one other thing, don't forget the Championship Tour Edition is noticable cheaper than Simonis. On a personal note...I think all these cloths are over priced, but then again...I'm not the one paying for it...the bar/pool hall owners are!
Click to expand...

I have to disagree with ya...860 IMO...is better cloth then the champioship tour edition..I will agree on the nicks the 860 or 760 gets BUT the burn mark's happen much faster on the tour edition that makes it look worn out sooner....(break spots & rack tracks)...IMO...terry
 
I've owned 3 pool rooms in the past, and I've had more than 300 bar accounts that I've recovered the tables in. The cloth usage really depends a lot on the environment it's in. Pool rooms have a tendency to pay more attention to their pool tables than bar owner do. But in a bar table environment the Championship Tour Edition will win out every time. No one cloth is going to satisfy every customer that uses it. But in all the years that I've been recovering tables...I got far fewer complaints on the Championship cloth than I did on either the Simonis 760 or the 860. You can't just test a cloth in only one kind of environment...in my opinion, is has to be tested in every environment in order to make an informed decision based on the law of average.
 
IMO...you just proved a good point...tour edition cloth is cheaper than 860 or 760...so it is more widly used in bar accounts due to price ...or can I say because it's a look a like (most bar accounts or coin table vendors would use titian blend cheaper yet)....but in pool rooms with the better players ...they demand better cloth like the 860 or 760...for the durablity and consistat play...yea for the 25yrs I have been in the pool room business probably 10 tables outside of the room that wanted simonis cloth...BUT thats because most people dont know the differance.....even my coin vendor that has to have one table in my place to fall with sanctioning of the VNEA eight ball league screams when I want simonis on that table(to match my room)...and as you already know ...room owners dont need to be replaceing cloth 2 or 3 times a year...SO...IMO...SIMONIS is a better cloth for the players,room owners for the looks, play, & durabilaty in the long run...Terry
 
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