Trying to understand CTE Pro 1

Butterbean150

New member
Good evening guys. Let me start this off with you understanding I'm not a troll or trying to start any squabbles. I have been trying to get my mind wrapped around this CTE. I come from a ghost ball and contact point background as this was what I was taught coming up. Its just natural for me to look at the pocket line when I'm lining up my shot and build from there. There are aspects of the CTE Pro 1 that dont seem to make scence to me. You have A,B, and C plus the 1/8 on the OB. That is 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and something like 7/8 of the OB. Thats 4 angles to setup on. So, lets say its an edge to A shot. I get center to edge, then edge to A, find center of the cueball, 1/2 tip pivot, then shoot. When I see that shot, It is obvious i am going to miss because i can see the picket line and i know I'm not lined up to make it so when i shoot it I miss. I can set the same shot up, find the pocket line, set up, shoot it and make it. I dont understand how those 4 points cover all the possible angles that come up on a table and still cover all yhe rest of the angles to make balls on tight pocket diamond tables. Help me understand what I'm missing. Thanks guys...
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
What CTE calls edge-to-A, edge-to-B, etc. are more commonly known as "fractional" CB/OB alignments, and they're commonly used as "reference" alignments to help estimate the in-between cut angles. CTE is more involved than that, but lots of players use that simple version very successfully.

pj
chgo
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Good evening guys. Let me start this off with you understanding I'm not a troll or trying to start any squabbles. I have been trying to get my mind wrapped around this CTE. I come from a ghost ball and contact point background as this was what I was taught coming up. Its just natural for me to look at the pocket line when I'm lining up my shot and build from there. There are aspects of the CTE Pro 1 that dont seem to make scence to me. You have A,B, and C plus the 1/8 on the OB. That is 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and something like 7/8 of the OB. Thats 4 angles to setup on. So, lets say its an edge to A shot. I get center to edge, then edge to A, find center of the cueball, 1/2 tip pivot, then shoot. When I see that shot, It is obvious i am going to miss because i can see the picket line and i know I'm not lined up to make it so when i shoot it I miss. I can set the same shot up, find the pocket line, set up, shoot it and make it. I dont understand how those 4 points cover all the possible angles that come up on a table and still cover all yhe rest of the angles to make balls on tight pocket diamond tables. Help me understand what I'm missing. Thanks guys...
You sound sincere. We'll see how all that works out.
First, you must believe that Stan Shuffett is a FOR REAL pool player who has slugged it out with many of the best in the game. He is not a liar, he is not a con man, he is not out to swindle anyone out of money, and he is one of the finest men you will ever have the pleasure to know....assuming you decide to pursue the study of Pro One. He has coached some of the best (who were already good when they came to him. He just helped make them better).
I am not an instructor. I believe(?) I can detect what some of the things are that are causing you concern. But I am a student...not an instructor. I cannot and will not go there like some of the know-it-alls in this pool aiming forum.
Go to YouTube and find Stan Shuffett's video titled..."The Power of CTE Pro One Part One" and study it over and over and over and over. That is an excellent starting place, seeing as how you have some knowledge already.
Here is the URL: https://youtu.be/Z_TW3-i0KL4
Best wishes to you.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
Good evening guys. Let me start this off with you understanding I'm not a troll or trying to start any squabbles. I have been trying to get my mind wrapped around this CTE. I come from a ghost ball and contact point background as this was what I was taught coming up. Its just natural for me to look at the pocket line when I'm lining up my shot and build from there. There are aspects of the CTE Pro 1 that dont seem to make scence to me. You have A,B, and C plus the 1/8 on the OB. That is 1/4, 1/2, 3/4, and something like 7/8 of the OB. Thats 4 angles to setup on. So, lets say its an edge to A shot. I get center to edge, then edge to A, find center of the cueball, 1/2 tip pivot, then shoot. When I see that shot, It is obvious i am going to miss because i can see the picket line and i know I'm not lined up to make it so when i shoot it I miss. I can set the same shot up, find the pocket line, set up, shoot it and make it. I dont understand how those 4 points cover all the possible angles that come up on a table and still cover all yhe rest of the angles to make balls on tight pocket diamond tables. Help me understand what I'm missing. Thanks guys...


#1: https://youtu.be/2KwI_62Npos

#2: https://youtu.be/4iuvQT7dwfs

#3: https://youtu.be/V8Zmhz1wWWM
 

Butterbean150

New member
So, If I aim at one of the 4 points -A,B,C,or 1/8 that is somewhat close to the pocket line the ball just goes? It will split the pocket from anywhere on the table as long as you aim at the designated spot on the OB as long as its close to what the pocket line is on? I realize there is an inside and outside pivot(sweep), does this give you 4 more angles to send the OB on? As in, A/inside sweep,A/outside sweep-B/inside sweep,B/outside sweep? Is that the purpose of the sweeps? To cover the angles that look"off"to your eye? So, lets say its an edge to C shot, but when you line up on it you realize it needs a lil more cut so you take an inside sweep to"thin up" the cut?
 

Butterbean150

New member
I am sincere, certainly not looking to poke a bear. Im just attempting to gain understanding that I cant find on videos on YouTube that explain the questions i have.
 

Boxcar

Banned
Im just attempting to gain understanding that I cant find on videos on YouTube that explain the questions i have.

You and maybe 2 million other pool players. The line forms at the rear.:D
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I am sincere, certainly not looking to poke a bear. Im just attempting to gain understanding that I cant find on videos on YouTube that explain the questions i have.

The only professional teaching I've ever had was 65 years ago from Danny Jones, Joe Cosgrove, Billy Johnson, and a little from Luther Lassiter. Not too much from any of them, but some.
I have spent a week with Stan Shuffett recently in his training studio. When he first walked me into the training room and said..."This is where we're going to work", I wanted to run for the door.
There stood an immaculate 10 foot Diamond table, with pro cut pockets, simonis cloth (I had never played on simonis cloth in all my years of action), and the best lighting you could ask for. I said..."There is no way I will be able to pocket balls on this gigantic landing field...I just can't do it".
He then showed me his other training room which had a 9 footer in it , but I told him that as long as I had invested the time and money to fly and drive there, he was in charge and we may as well go back and get to work on that 10 footer.
When the week was over, with him sitting over there watching.... I was shooting balls into the pockets of that 10 footer, blind, under the curtain, without even seeing the pockets.
Learning the perceptions and how to use your eyes in a different way is a tremendous part of his coaching. (I don't know what he does to correct stroke errors because apparently he was satisfied with mine other than telling me to shorten up my backswing a little on shots where the cue ball was close to the object ball.) I can't speak for your stroke.
The point of all this is to impress upon you that he is not a coach who is teaching gimmickry. This stuff is for real.
His Truth Series for YouTube is completed and will be put into play when his book is released....I've said this elsewhere. The Truth Series will answer all your questions.
He will again offer personal one-on-one coaching for selected students after all that is in place. The demand for his time is astonishing. From all over the world they come.
Stan Shuffet is a calm, kind, patient, gentleman who will work tirelessly to transfer his knowledge to those who are dedicated to learning. On the other hand, those who have ridiculed him and trashed him endlessly for years have NO chance.
The following from Shakespeare's Henry V would be appropriate here: "In peace there is nothing so becomes a man, as modest stillness and humility;
But when the war toxin blows in our ears, then imitate the actions of the tiger."
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
So, If I aim at one of the 4 points -A,B,C,or 1/8 that is somewhat close to the pocket line the ball just goes? It will split the pocket from anywhere on the table as long as you aim at the designated spot on the OB as long as its close to what the pocket line is on? I realize there is an inside and outside pivot(sweep), does this give you 4 more angles to send the OB on? As in, A/inside sweep,A/outside sweep-B/inside sweep,B/outside sweep? Is that the purpose of the sweeps? To cover the angles that look"off"to your eye? So, lets say its an edge to C shot, but when you line up on it you realize it needs a lil more cut so you take an inside sweep to"thin up" the cut?
Yes, that’s essentially it.

Good luck getting clear advice from CTE users (other than “buy it!”).

pj
chgo
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
"Low IQ" sez......

So, If I aim at one of the 4 points -A,B,C,or 1/8 that is somewhat close to the pocket line the ball just goes? It will split the pocket from anywhere on the table as long as you aim at the designated spot on the OB as long as its close to what the pocket line is on? I realize there is an inside and outside pivot(sweep), does this give you 4 more angles to send the OB on? As in, A/inside sweep,A/outside sweep-B/inside sweep,B/outside sweep? Is that the purpose of the sweeps? To cover the angles that look"off"to your eye? So, lets say its an edge to C shot, but when you line up on it you realize it needs a lil more cut so you take an inside sweep to"thin up" the cut?
The main reason you will not get much help here in this forum is because for years and years the CTE users and Stan Shuffett have been maligned, ridiculed, trashed,... you name it.
Most anything we post in the way of help is usually met with argument, distortions, and ignorance. (the ones doing this have never seriously studied the method themselves or they are touting something of their own)
That's why, speaking for myself, I just "lay low" with any advice. We finally got tired of "peeing into the wind and having it blow back in our face", so to speak.
I will tell you this, however. In Pro One, the aiming line and the shot line are two different things. The proper use of your eyes will direct you to both.
When you learn to use your eyes in a different way from the way you've probably been brainwashed about for decades, things will start to click into place.
I really hope you can enjoy it as much as I do.
Regards from old "Low IQ"....(that's one of the disparaging nicknames I've been tagged with from one of the usual complainers)
I kinda' like it...:)
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The main reason you will not get much help here in this forum is because for years and years the CTE users and Stan Shuffett have been maligned, ridiculed, trashed,... you name it.
Most anything we post in the way of help is usually met with argument, distortions, and ignorance. (the ones doing this have never seriously studied the method themselves or they are touting something of their own)
That's why, speaking for myself, I just "lay low" with any advice. We finally got tired of "peeing into the wind and having it blow back in our face", so to speak.
I will tell you this, however. In Pro One, the aiming line and the shot line are two different things. The proper use of your eyes will direct you to both.
When you learn to use your eyes in a different way from the way you've probably been brainwashed about for decades, things will start to click into place.
I really hope you can enjoy it as much as I do.
Regards from old "Low IQ"....(that's one of the disparaging nicknames I've been tagged with from one of the usual complainers)
I kinda' like it...:)
Translation: Don't ask us - we just advertise it (endlessly).

pj
chgo
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Translation: Don't ask us - we just advertise it (endlessly).
pj
chgo
Finger Blank.jpg
Translation: Don't ask me either - I just trash and ridicule it (endlessly)
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
The main reason you will not get much help here in this forum is because for years and years the CTE users and Stan Shuffett have been maligned, ridiculed, trashed,... you name it.
Most anything we post in the way of help is usually met with argument, distortions, and ignorance. (the ones doing this have never seriously studied the method themselves or they are touting something of their own)
That's why, speaking for myself, I just "lay low" with any advice. We finally got tired of "peeing into the wind and having it blow back in our face", so to speak.
I will tell you this, however. In Pro One, the aiming line and the shot line are two different things. The proper use of your eyes will direct you to both.
When you learn to use your eyes in a different way from the way you've probably been brainwashed about for decades, things will start to click into place.
I really hope you can enjoy it as much as I do.
Regards from old "Low IQ"....(that's one of the disparaging nicknames I've been tagged with from one of the usual complainers)
I kinda' like it...:)

Translation: Don't ask us - we just advertise it (endlessly).
Translation: Don't ask me either - I just trash and ridicule it (endlessly)
Not it. You and your content-free advertisements about it.

pj <- one more thing you don't get
chgo
 
Damn the torpedoes...
I'm gonna try to help.
Yes, there are 4 'perceptions'. From the perception, each require a 1/2 tip pivot. Each has a 'label' or 'name', 15, 30, 45 and 60. Don't get hung up on the angle measurement, they're just labels. Whereas it would seem there are 8 different shot angles, there are really just 7 because a 30 thickened and a 15 thinned are the same shot. The 15 and 30 require a 2 line perception. The 15 is CBE to a 1/4 (whether it's 'A' or 'C') AND CBC to OBE (you can even let your eyes slightly blur to 'see' this). The 30 is CBE to 'B' AND CBC to OBE. The pivot then thins or thickens the shot. The 45 and 60 are 1 line perceptions. CBE to 'A' or 'C' or edge to 1/8th.

One of the real problems w/ ghost ball or contact points is that...as the distance between CB and OB increases, the relative size of the balls change making it hard to be accurate.

The reason I say, "don't get hung up on measuring the cut angle and trying to match this guess w/ a CTE 'label'" is hard to understand and needs to be worked with and practiced, but is exemplified by this. When the balls are fairly close together, a shot may in fact be close to 30* and is pocketed by a 30 thinned. This same angle - when the balls are far apart - might be pocketed by a 15 thickened. Another example could be - when the balls are really close - like an inch, or less - a 30* angle might be pocketed by a 60* perception. CTE is about perceptions and finding a r/ship between the CB and OB. Don't get hung up on trying to explain to yourself (or others, God forbid) that there are only 7 aiming lines, etc.

I think CTE adds significant info for shotmaking and is more than worthwhile to work with.

And please...if you're a hater, give it a rest.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Damn the torpedoes...
I'm gonna try to help.
Yes, there are 4 'perceptions'. From the perception, each require a 1/2 tip pivot. Each has a 'label' or 'name', 15, 30, 45 and 60. Don't get hung up on the angle measurement, they're just labels. Whereas it would seem there are 8 different shot angles, there are really just 7 because a 30 thickened and a 15 thinned are the same shot. The 15 and 30 require a 2 line perception. The 15 is CBE to a 1/4 (whether it's 'A' or 'C') AND CBC to OBE (you can even let your eyes slightly blur to 'see' this). The 30 is CBE to 'B' AND CBC to OBE. The pivot then thins or thickens the shot. The 45 and 60 are 1 line perceptions. CBE to 'A' or 'C' or edge to 1/8th.

One of the real problems w/ ghost ball or contact points is that...as the distance between CB and OB increases, the relative size of the balls change making it hard to be accurate.

The reason I say, "don't get hung up on measuring the cut angle and trying to match this guess w/ a CTE 'label'" is hard to understand and needs to be worked with and practiced, but is exemplified by this. When the balls are fairly close together, a shot may in fact be close to 30* and is pocketed by a 30 thinned. This same angle - when the balls are far apart - might be pocketed by a 15 thickened. Another example could be - when the balls are really close - like an inch, or less - a 30* angle might be pocketed by a 60* perception. CTE is about perceptions and finding a r/ship between the CB and OB. Don't get hung up on trying to explain to yourself (or others, God forbid) that there are only 7 aiming lines, etc.

I think CTE adds significant info for shotmaking and is more than worthwhile to work with.

And please...if you're a hater, give it a rest.
Kudos for providing actual info. I only take exception to the unnecessary and inaccurate dig at other methods like contact points and ghost ball - distance perspective is no more of an issue for them than it is for any method, including CTE.

pj
chgo
 
Kudos for providing actual info. I only take exception to the unnecessary and inaccurate dig at other methods like contact points and ghost ball - distance perspective is no more of an issue for them than it is for any method, including CTE.

pj
chgo

Not really a dig. Wanted to make the point - and offer a possible explanation - that similar angles at different distances call for a different CTE visual.

I guess, if I were to think about it this way, I might say that CTE gives one a method to deal with the challenge of distance perspective.
 
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Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
...similar angles at different distances call for a different CTE visual.

...CTE gives one a method to deal with the challenge of distance perspective.
And so does every other system. CTE didn't invent "visuals" - all systems use them (even non-system aiming). CTE is just the only one to (wrongly) claim its visuals are something different than the usual aiming alignments ("shot pictures") learned/memorized through repetitious practice.

pj
chgo
 
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