Trying to understand CTE Pro 1

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
With manual pivoting you are not on the shotline until after the half tip pivot.
When I was first learning cte this video helped me the most.:)
https://youtu.be/2KwI_62Npos
Thank you for pointing that out and bringing up this video.
And it is a very good video too.
As soon as students realize that the aiming line and shot line are two different things. And how to really use their eyes. Their progress will begin to skyrocket.

I have trained in that studio on his monstrous, one piece slate, 10 foot Diamond table and have seen his visual training aids. The man is an absolute wizard when it comes to transferring knowledge. Probably due to his many years as a career school teacher.
If I can find an open spot in his schedule, I plan on returning in the spring for a week of study on banks. I've watched him, with my own eyes, pocketing those 2, 3, and 4 rail banks and it isn't because he was "born in Kentucky" or "has hit a million banks" either. KNOWLEDGE is the key! (I have a hunch that his Truth Series and his Book will have all I want to know about banks in them though)
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
And so does every other system. CTE didn't invent "visuals" - all systems use them (even non-system aiming). CTE is just the only one to (wrongly) claim its visuals are something different than the usual aiming alignments ("shot pictures") learned/memorized through repetitious practice.
pj
chgo
Wrong again.
After 15 years of bad mouthing the CTE method of playing pool, you still don't realize you're, figuratively speaking, sitting in a broken down EL out at 47th and Vincennes, nibbling on a hot dog, while the new breed of the pool world is lounging at a first class restaurant in the loop with lobster and champagne.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
It's incorrect to equate a one line 'shot picture' with a CTE 'visual'.

A CTE visual is unique. It's a 2 line alignment. Every other aiming system uses just one line. Other pivoting systems such as 90/90, shish-kabob, Stan's visual quarters, etc. use just one line also. Of course CP2CP, quarters, overlaps, and GB are single line systems. I've not read anything where the 'shot picture' is referred to as a 'visual' when using those systems. If anyone can think of another aiming system using a 2 line approach I'd like to hear about it.

A CTE visual is different from the usual alignment systems. Using quarters as an example, assume a 30* cut to the right. You stand over the CB and aim the center at the left edge of the OB. No author explaining the system EVER mentions where the edge of the CB is directed. It's only where the center of the CB is aimed.

A similar alignment in CTE is a B visual. In this system you stand with your feet and body on the left side of the OB - CB centerline, NOT behind the CB. You aim the center of the CB at the left edge of the OB similar to the quarters alignment. You then adjust your body so the edge of the CB aligns with the center of the OB. It's this slight alignment which makes it unique. A half ball quarters aim line is NOT the same as a B visual. Anyone who suggests the two are equivalent are grossly misinformed about CTE.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
Wrong again.
After 15 years of bad mouthing the CTE method of playing pool, you still don't realize you're, figuratively speaking, sitting in a broken down EL out at 47th and Vincennes, nibbling on a hot dog, while the new breed of the pool world is lounging at a first class restaurant in the loop with lobster and champagne.
lol

And you evidently still don't know that believing your favorite system is magic is just plain dumb.

pj
chgo
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
A CTE visual is unique.
Every aiming system visual is unique to that system. CTE's two-line system is one of the interesting things about it, but it's still just another way to visualize CB/OB alignments that helps to memorize/recall them - like every other system. And, by the way, the center-to-edge line is used as an "orientation" alignment in other systems too.

CTE is just another one like all the other ones - if anything's "special" about it, it's those who believe it's different.

pj
chgo
 
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Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
Every aiming system visual is unique to that system. CTE's two-line system is one of the interesting things about it, but it's still just another way to visualize CB/OB alignments that helps to memorize/recall them - like every other system. And, by the way, the center-to-edge line is used as an "orientation" alignment in other systems too.

CTE is just another one like all the other ones - if anything's "special" about it, it's those who believe it's different.

pj
chgo

You're still trying to equate a CTE visual with a so called 'shot picture'. I'd never heard the term 'visual' used in relation to aiming until I heard of Hal Houle's systems. Perhaps you can direct us to some aiming system that used the concept of visuals before Hal Houle. The only ones I'm aware of are those that are one of his clones.

The correct shot line for all the various systems was normally called an aim point, line of aim, or some such term. The closest system that may claim to use 'visuals' would be overlaps. Here you're told to 'visually' (note this is an adverb, not a noun) overlap the OB and CB to get the correct contact point. But to call them 'visuals' is really stretching the term as applied to CTE.

CTE users have no need to memorize all the various shot angles/overlaps/alignments. The visuals and pivot/sweep are all that are needed for their shots. If that isn't different from other aiming systems I suggest you pull out your dictionary.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
CTE users have no need to memorize all the various shot angles/overlaps/alignments. The visuals and pivot/sweep are all that are needed for their shots.
Like the visuals and pivots/sweeps for fractional aiming, or 90/90 aiming, or shish-ka-bob aiming, or... well, you get the idea.

Or not...

pj
chgo
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
Like the visuals and pivots/sweeps for fractional aiming, or 90/90 aiming, or shish-ka-bob aiming, or... well, you get the idea.

Or not...

pj
chgo

All the systems you mentioned are one line systems. You're aiming at a point of the OB thru center CB. Yes, even 90/90 is a one line system. It's a simple overlap. A CTE visual uses two lines and is unique. You're just plain wrong.

When's the first time you heard of a visual? Tell us, if you can, of any book, article, or publication that used the concept of a visual before Houle. If you can..

...or not.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
.........

CTE users have no need to memorize all the various shot angles/overlaps/alignments. The visuals and pivot/sweep are all that are needed for their shots......


Like the visuals and pivots/sweeps for fractional aiming, or 90/90 aiming, or shish-ka-bob aiming, or... well, you get the idea.

Or not...

pj
chgo


I don't believe memorization is optional. If we repeat a particular process enough times, that process gets embedded into the subconscious, sort of like a computer program. The program then runs automatically based on the sensory input supplied to the brain. In other words, as soon as we see a shot (or the cb-ob relationship on the table) the brain begins searching its database of recognized/memorized shots for something similar. And like magic you find yourself automatically aligning your body and stroke for the shot. The process is automatic, though we are consciously providing real time visual input needed to guide the process.

This happens with any aiming method. Experienced players know/recognize more shots. They have greater shot recognition. Players with limited experience have limited shot recognition. The proof is in the fact that experienced CTE users can recognize exactly when a shot requires a 30 inside or a 15 outside or whatever, just as experienced fractional aimers and ghostball aimers can recognize where the cb needs to be as soon as they see the shot.

Experience inadvertently builds shot recognition/memorization, allowing the subconscious to call up the appropriate aiming process for a given shot, whether it's a certain 2-line visual perception and sweep or a single visual of a fractional aim line or a ghostball line. That's why practice, quality table time, is very important.
 

Patrick Johnson

Fish of the Day
Silver Member
I don't believe memorization is optional. If we repeat a particular process enough times, that process gets embedded into the subconscious, sort of like a computer program. The program then runs automatically based on the sensory input supplied to the brain.
Yes, and to be clear, aiming systems aren't the program - they're "organizing" data (usually visualized alignments of fixed "landmarks" on the balls) we provide to the subconscious to assist its computation.

Aiming systems (and non-system aiming) don't really differ much in those elemental terms - they differ mostly in how we describe them to ourselves.

pj
chgo
 

garczar

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
I don't believe memorization is optional. If we repeat a particular process enough times, that process gets embedded into the subconscious, sort of like a computer program. The program then runs automatically based on the sensory input supplied to the brain. In other words, as soon as we see a shot (or the cb-ob relationship on the table) the brain begins searching its database of recognized/memorized shots for something similar. And like magic you find yourself automatically aligning your body and stroke for the shot. The process is automatic, though we are consciously providing real time visual input needed to guide the process.

This happens with any aiming method. Experienced players know/recognize more shots. They have greater shot recognition. Players with limited experience have limited shot recognition. The proof is in the fact that experienced CTE users can recognize exactly when a shot requires a 30 inside or a 15 outside or whatever, just as experienced fractional aimers and ghostball aimers can recognize where the cb needs to be as soon as they see the shot.

Experience inadvertently builds shot recognition/memorization, allowing the subconscious to call up the appropriate aiming process for a given shot, whether it's a certain 2-line visual perception and sweep or a single visual of a fractional aim line or a ghostball line. That's why practice, quality table time, is very important.
The 'ol "half-a-million" balls deal. The more you play the more it gets automatic regardless of how you do it.
 

Low500

AzB Silver Member
Silver Member
Like the visuals and pivots/sweeps for fractional aiming, or 90/90 aiming, or shish-ka-bob aiming, or... well, you get the idea.
Or not...
pj
chgo
How would you instruct someone verbally on the way the visuals and pivot/sweeps for fractional aiming like POOLOLOGY are done?
No need to beat around the bush, or deflect it back. Please put it into words as you understand it.
Five students of aiming, including myself, would like to know from you, since you write as an expert on all aiming methods. (just being aware of additional tools for the toolbox, you know)
Thank you.
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
How would you instruct someone verbally on the way the visuals and pivot/sweeps for fractional aiming like POOLOLOGY are done?
No need to beat around the bush, or deflect it back. Please put it into words as you understand it.
Five students of aiming, including myself, would like to know from you, since you write as an expert on all aiming methods. (just being aware of additional tools for the toolbox, you know)
Thank you.

You wouldn't happen to go by another name would you??? Maybe like Stan or something. Some of the things you post remind me of that guy. Stan is that you?lol
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
How would you instruct someone verbally on the way the visuals and pivot/sweeps for fractional aiming like POOLOLOGY are done?
No need to beat around the bush, or deflect it back. Please put it into words as you understand it.
Five students of aiming, including myself, would like to know from you, since you write as an expert on all aiming methods. (just being aware of additional tools for the toolbox, you know)
Thank you.

There won't be any response from pj. He's wrong and he knows it. Post #19 is completely false.

When discussing CTE visuals, the following must be acknowledged:

A CTE visual is a unique alignment method.

The term 'visual' ( when used as a noun, not an adjective or adverb ) was coined from the alignment methods of Hal Houle.

Facts are tricky things to refute. Anyone able to help pj out with his post #19 comments? BC21? 8pack? Bueller? Bueller?
 

8pack

They call me 2 county !
Silver Member
There won't be any response from pj. He's wrong and he knows it. Post #19 is completely false.

When discussing CTE visuals, the following must be acknowledged:

A CTE visual is a unique alignment method.

The term 'visual' ( when used as a noun, not an adjective or adverb ) was coined from the alignment methods of Hal Houle.

Facts are tricky things to refute. Anyone able to help pj out with his post #19 comments? BC21? 8pack? Bueller? Bueller?

I'll try buddy. Ok....put your tin foil hat on straight...tap your shoes together 3 times for a 1/2 tip pivot and twice when lining up at the quarters of the ball....A or C. So 5 taps for these . Now for the B . Same process but close your ears or eyes, which ever works easier for you. Thats about it....oh forgot to mention maybe a prayer or 2.
 

BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
There won't be any response from pj. He's wrong and he knows it. Post #19 is completely false.

When discussing CTE visuals, the following must be acknowledged:

A CTE visual is a unique alignment method.

The term 'visual' ( when used as a noun, not an adjective or adverb ) was coined from the alignment methods of Hal Houle.

Facts are tricky things to refute. Anyone able to help pj out with his post #19 comments? BC21? 8pack? Bueller? Bueller?

The "coining" of terms -- words have meanings, and using known words within the context of their meanings is not "coining" a term. It's merely utilizing language.

The word "visual" has been used as a noun way before Hal Houle adopted the word for sighting a pool shot. It's typically used an adjective, as in visual presentation or visual perception. But a visual is anything you can see with your eyes.

Forming a mental visual, something that you can't really see with your eyes because you must imagine it, like a shot line or an aim line or a CTE or ETA line, is a visualization, not a "visual".

A "visual perception" is the brain's abilty to form a mental picture/image in your mind based on what you are seeing or visualizing. Our brains can also form perceptions based on other sensory inputs like hearing, touch, and smell.

Hal Houle may've been the first to use the word "visual" as a noun relating to pool shots, just as he or Stan was probably the first to use the words "visual perception" in relation to visualizing pool shots. But these words already existed and weren't redefined or coined. In fact, a "visual" as you describe (or as Hal described) in pool is not really a visual at all....it's a visualization, something you must imagine. So this whole argument is really based on the inappropriate use of words.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
Fractions With Pivots


Start making sense and you might get responses.

pj <- holding my breath
chgo

Refute post #34 if you can.

I'll ask for the THIRD time. Put up and back up your claim.

When was the first time you heard of visuals? I'm guessing it was in the usenet era in relation to one of Houle's methods.

Show any use of the term 'visual' as a noun in any aiming book, magazine, or publication.

You're wrong.

Take a deep breath and give it a try.
 

Vorpal Cue

Just galumping back
Silver Member
The "coining" of terms -- words have meanings, and using known words within the context of their meanings is not "coining" a term. It's merely utilizing language.

The word "visual" has been used as a noun way before Hal Houle adopted the word for sighting a pool shot. It's typically used an adjective, as in visual presentation or visual perception. But a visual is anything you can see with your eyes.

Forming a mental visual, something that you can't really see with your eyes because you must imagine it, like a shot line or an aim line or a CTE or ETA line, is a visualization, not a "visual".

A "visual perception" is the brain's abilty to form a mental picture/image in your mind based on what you are seeing or visualizing. Our brains can also form perceptions based on other sensory inputs like hearing, touch, and smell.

Hal Houle may've been the first to use the word "visual" as a noun relating to pool shots, just as he or Stan was probably the first to use the words "visual perception" in relation to visualizing pool shots. But these words already existed and weren't redefined or coined. In fact, a "visual" as you describe (or as Hal described) in pool is not really a visual at all....it's a visualization, something you must imagine. So this whole argument is really based on the inappropriate use of words.

The term 'visual' in noun form is defined (in the multiple dictionaries I used) as a graphic or picture element usually used in relation to films. Normally used in the plural form. To use it outside it's normal usage is coining a term. There's no definition as it being 'a common aiming term used in billiards'. It's use in CTE is as a unique term. Too bad Hal isn't around or you could thank him for coining it.

The visualization of the 2 lines is called .......... a visual. Surprise!

btw.. How many times did you use the term 'visual' as a noun in your book? Was it once? ... or less?
 
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BC21

Poolology
Gold Member
Silver Member
The term 'visual' in noun form is defined (in the multiple dictionaries I used) as a graphic or picture element usually used in relation to films. Normally used in the plural form. To use it outside it's normal usage is coining a term. There's no definition as it being 'a common aiming term used in billiards'. It's use in CTE is as a unique term. Too bad Hal isn't around or you could thank him for coining it.

The visualization of the 2 lines is called .......... a visual. Surprise!

btw.. How many times did you use the term 'visual' as a noun in your book? Was it once? ... or less?

I don't know how many times I used the word visual in my book. I would say zero times, or close to it, because a visual is something you can actual see/capture with your eyes, not something you must imagine or visualize.
 
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