Tubes and Protection

JB Cases

www.jbcases.com
Silver Member
Well I saw a little discussion in another thread so I figured I'd add my opinion to it.

As many of you know my own personal history in cases comes from starting Instroke cases in 1991. The reason I started building cases is because my cue fell out of a case as it was knocked off a table and I wanted to improve the interior so that it would hold the cue inside until I deliberately took it out.

That case was a J.EF Q Case. I took the tubes out and relined them with some padding to keep the cues in place. That worked except I still had the problem that the whole interior wanted to come out. So I fixed that and then I thought well I guess I can make a case because this one isn't really my taste anyway. And so I borrowed a sewing machine and the rest is history.

But along the way I became sort of obsessed with making the perfect padded tube. I tried dozens of combinations and the early ones were a real pain in the ass to make and get right.

Tubes as holders for cues are in fact great protection. A circle can be one of the strongest shapes and if the tube is sufficiently thick then it can be nearly unbreakable when bundled.

So my thought was to work on the padding to reduce movement inside the tube and to bundle them well to make one solid unit. With two walls separating each part and padding as well the cue parts were held very nicely, snugly and safely.

The thing with unpadded tubes is that because the cue is tapered it can oscillate with a high frequency when the case is violently jarred or impacted. Hold a pencil in your fingers lightly and tap those fingers on the table and watch what happens to the end not held. It will bounce against the table several times even with the lightest tap. Now imagine that this is your cue inside the tube each time you hit a severe bump in the road.

I found that I could break cues above the wrap fairly easily by slamming the case to the ground from shoulder height. This is of course extreme but it illustrates that it's possible to break a cue even when it's inside the case. Is is possible to cause hairline fractures with even less force?

I think so.

In any event I feel that when you add padding you lessen the chances of that happening greatly. In fact in our Instroke cases I found it to be impossible to break a cue above the wrap with just a small amount of padding added to the interior of the tubes.

Now the question is whether padded tubes are as good as padded fabric divided interiors?

In my opinion yes for jarring and impact. For acute and severe impact possibly not since a bundled array of tubes, like rope, forms a very strong unit. Single large tubes have the problem of having only one wall to protect the contents so that tube needs to be made of something very very strong. And typically strength means more weight when talking about polymers that are affordable to case makers.

But accute and sever impact is very rare so for all practical purposes the single tube with properly padded dividers IS as good as multiple padded tube units.

As you can see we make both.

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Regarding the trend in rubber and sticky grips. That has traditionally been a problem with padded interiors because of the inherent protective snug fit of the padding. We have solved it mostly by increasing the width of our cavities but it's not ideal for all cues because the stickiness and thickness varies. So what we offer is a sleeve that can be used if someone has a cue that hangs up.

I feel that this solution is much better than using a less protective interior.

So that's my take on the interiors. We never stop improving them though. As well we customize to any need as we recently did for a customer in France who wanted one interior type for his pool cues and another for his carom cues with rubber grips. We sent him one case with two interiors and he reported back that both worked perfectly.
 
well... John you have practically said it all...
but in reality ... you forgot to mention the weight factor... which is extremely important! before we made cases with the tube interior and many players reported that the cases are heavy... the weight might be an issue for some people, but definitely is for others!
a case with tubes will weigh over 3 kg... our padded interior case will have the wheight of 1.9 kg ... n that is allot of difference .... specially for players that play tourneys and spend allot of time with cases on their shoulders...
nobody can deny evolution... and defnitly padded interior is the solution!
I have no problems in having with inserting butts that have rubber grips... this because the characteristics of the padded fabric... it is non - adherent ...
that's my opinion...
 
well... John you have practically said it all...
but in reality ... you forgot to mention the weight factor... which is extremely important! before we made cases with the tube interior and many players reported that the cases are heavy... the weight might be an issue for some people, but definitely is for others!
a case with tubes will weigh over 3 kg... our padded interior case will have the wheight of 1.9 kg ... n that is allot of difference .... specially for players that play tourneys and spend allot of time with cases on their shoulders...
nobody can deny evolution... and defnitly padded interior is the solution!
I have no problems in having with inserting butts that have rubber grips... this because the characteristics of the padded fabric... it is non - adherent ...
that's my opinion...

I deliberately didn't mention weight because it is more of an ergonomic issue. People who take their cases from the car to the pool room aren't concerned with weight. People who have walk miles through huge casinos with their case are concerned about weight.

It is possible to have Multi-Tube cases which are lightweight. Whitten does this, OnQ does this and even Murnak did it.

Those individual tubes however are weak but bundled they provide a fairly secure unit. Unpadded they don't provide the level of protection against oscillation that I mentioned above but the weight is certainly much lower than using plumbing and electrical tubing.

Of course it's entirely possible to purchase or make tubes which are lightweight and very strong. That generally comes with a cost that is somewhat prohibitive for the current market in my opinion. Carbon Fiber and other materials are possibilities, different polymers, even bonding thin weaves to the outside of the weak tubes are all things that can be used to add strength to the tubes without increasing the weight of the overall case.

As I said above I have dong this for over 20 years now. I am not sure but I would say that I have possibly thought about case construction every day for at least 17 of those 20 years. That doesn't mean I have all the answers either. I have not pursued each type of construction that I have found. I haven't done as you have done and commissioned a university research team to develop a new interior.

The overall point I was and am making is that tubes, be they off the shelf plumbing and electrical tubes, poster tubes, or any type of plastic are generally pretty secure and protective when properly bundled. If the user of the case is careful not to allow excess jarring then the cues should be fine. If the tubes are padded then less attention needs to be paid to how the case is handled.

The same thing applies to cases with fabric dividers. Some case have a little padding at the top and none in the rest of the case. So any jarring allows the parts to bang against each other instead of the walls of the tube. So it's important to ask your case maker if the padding is at other points in the case or just at the top.

With tube cases the user can only see the first couple inches. They often don't know what is inside and below and I encourage consumers to ask. Just the question alone will inform the customer and encourage the case maker to think about the level of protection they offer. As mentioned earlier usage determines the level of protection a person is willing to accept.

If someone knows that they are likely to handle their case in such a way that a cue which freely moves inside the tube isn't a problem then they don't need padding. If someone feels that perhaps they might drop the case or run over bumps then padding is needed to be sure no cracks or buzzes appear.

And weight is also something that each person has to work out for themselves. We also make cases that weigh less than 2kg, less than 4.4lbs if the customer desires it. Some of our cases are built like tanks and others are built like like Porsches, light and sleek but still protective.

At the end of the day each case maker can only work within their means to build something that the customer is happy with. Custom case making is a small business in a small industry. Not everyone has access to the tools that you and I do and they have to work with what they can get and make the best case possible. And they do it.

If I had never started making padded tubes and never started making padded fabric interiors, Instroke in 1991 and JB Cases in 2007 then the world would have been absolutely fine without them. Although accidents happen where cues fall out of cases and probably cues develop buzzes and cracks from banging around in cases I'd say that it's rare. People get along just fine without padding in cue cases.

In all other walks of life the padded case is seen as the most protective and often the standard so it's clear that some padding is better than no padding but at the end of the day if a cue maker chooses to make a case with unpadded interiors, by his decision or by customer request, then it's very likely that the customer can use that case without incident for their whole life. This is the conclusion that I have come to after 20 years in this business.
 
You know what makes me wonder about the large single tube is you can take one hand and squeeze the top and completely push it together. I've got several sizes and brands of the one tube type interiors and I can do this with all three of them. Try and squeeze a piece of pvc plumbing tubing and see how far you can push it together, I'm betting not much if any. So I guess it makes me wonder how much pressure applied at the top or even dead center of the one single tube it would take before the cue parts inside start to press on each other and start to cause damage. I may have to get the tubes out and do a run over them with a car test and see how well each type do, lol. :grin:
 
You know what makes me wonder about the large single tube is you can take one hand and squeeze the top and completely push it together. I've got several sizes and brands of the one tube type interiors and I can do this with all three of them. Try and squeeze a piece of pvc plumbing tubing and see how far you can push it together, I'm betting not much if any. So I guess it makes me wonder how much pressure applied at the top or even dead center of the one single tube it would take before the cue parts inside start to press on each other and start to cause damage. I may have to get the tubes out and do a run over them with a car test and see how well each type do, lol. :grin:

Exactly.

This is the trade off with all of these solutions. As I said it's possible to make large tubes with very high compression resistance.

I think I outlined this pretty well in my opening post. A circle is a very strong shape and if the tube is thick walled then it's not going to compress easily. And then when bundled the whole unit is even stronger. Kind of like being able to snap one pencil easily but not four bundled together.

I wouldn't recommend anyone run over our cases with a car. I have stood on them with no problem but I wouldn't jump up and down on them.

I made this trade-off deliberately though because I feel that the padded protection from jarring and keeping the cues from moving inside the case is more important. I think cases are dropped and people hit potholes far more often than they run over their cases. So I opted for the flexibility and weight reduction of the single tube over the pure strength of the bundled tubes. With a single tube I can do many configurations in the same space and even provide multiple interiors with different setups.

For example here is one we did with two different configurations in the same tube case.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOVe953ibM0

But you're right, the fact that some large tubes can be compressed is something that bothers me. I have designed a new type of tube that has a support for the center but I just haven't had the molds made for it yet.
 
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Two points, if I may.

I used a Justis Road Runner, unpadded envelope case for years without incident. No tubes at all in this design. The leather hugs the cue. A GTF/Thomas is a nice slim design but pales in comparison.

A carbon fiber tube would not only be light and strong, but good looking enough not to need a cover at all. The case of the future.

See you in Edison.
Courtney
 
Two points, if I may.

I used a Justis Road Runner, unpadded envelope case for years without incident. No tubes at all in this design. The leather hugs the cue. A GTF/Thomas is a nice slim design but pales in comparison.

A carbon fiber tube would not only be light and strong, but good looking enough not to need a cover at all. The case of the future.

See you in Edison.
Courtney

Yes, any bag is sufficient if the owner exercises care in handling. Many people are not as comfortable with the fact that the roadrunner has no dividers between the parts. Some people are. To each his own.

Also when it comes to beauty that is also subjective. You can certainly have the opinion that the Justis is prettier than the GTF but you cannot truthfully say that the Justis roadrunner is more protective than the GTF.

If you would like to test this then I will be happy to demonstrate it using my personal cue at the SBE. We can both slam our cases to the ground and see which one protects the cue better from that impact.

But I don't think you want to do that because you know full well that the roadrunner is not built for that. Neither are our simple envelope cases with no tubes.

On the point of holding the parts snug though yes, your case does do that.

Feel free to stop by our booth and see a few of our simple envelope cases and compare them to yours. I hope you will be pleased with what we have done to make a simple case even better.

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I will put up better images of the interior in a couple hours.

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As promised some images of the interior of our simple Envelope case.

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You know what makes me wonder about the large single tube is you can take one hand and squeeze the top and completely push it together. I've got several sizes and brands of the one tube type interiors and I can do this with all three of them. Try and squeeze a piece of pvc plumbing tubing and see how far you can push it together, I'm betting not much if any. So I guess it makes me wonder how much pressure applied at the top or even dead center of the one single tube it would take before the cue parts inside start to press on each other and start to cause damage. I may have to get the tubes out and do a run over them with a car test and see how well each type do, lol. :grin:

rusty... try n squeeze this with both ur hands and let me know if you managed to make it moove... and i have run a car over it several times...
jb did u invent that too??????
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rusty... try n squeeze this with both ur hands and let me know if you managed to make it moove... and i have run a car over it several times...
jb did u invent that too??????
....lolView attachment 267439

Ha ha, you don't use those in your cases, who are you kidding.....;) You need to scold your grinders because I can see the weld line in the back, those should not be showing:grin-square: But heck send it over I'll see if I can squeeze it together, I bet I can crush it:p
 
rusty... try n squeeze this with both ur hands and let me know if you managed to make it moove... and i have run a car over it several times...
jb did u invent that too??????
....lolView attachment 267439

No McDermott did in the 80s with their SuperMac cases. These had aluminum shells that are SUPER strong.

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For lightweight though and ability to hold a LOT of cues Zero Haliburton created a cue case in the 90s. It withstands 2000 pounds of pressure per square inch.

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I had one and foolishly sold it. For ultimate protection I don't think it gets better than this.

I am not sure why you don't want to give me credit for inventing the padded interiors but I did. Not that it was so tough to do to figure out how to put a little padding in the tubes and to figure out how to arrange the padding in the larger tubes but I was the first one to do it. I think sometimes people see something that seems so easy and they think oh well that was always there.

But we did do a bunch of versions and continue to tweak our interiors to make them better. I guess it might be hard for people to say that John Barton pioneered the padded interiors when it seems like a no-brainer in hindsight. I don't know. Giving credit where credit is due seems to be a very rare thing in the billiard industry. I always do it, or I should say I always try to remember to do it but why other people don't is something I don't understand.
 
As a casual observer, it seems as though the Volturi case guy has a very large, and very fragile, ego. It seems any thread about cases he's there taking passive-aggressive shots at someone...lol.
 
As a casual observer, it seems as though the Volturi case guy has a very large, and very fragile, ego. It seems any thread about cases he's there taking passive-aggressive shots at someone...lol.

sorry my friend... my English isn't the best... so I might not be explaining myself exactly as I wish...
 
As a casual observer, it seems as though the Volturi case guy has a very large, and very fragile, ego. It seems any thread about cases he's there taking passive-aggressive shots at someone...lol.

I got the same exact impression. Considering he is new to this forum, maybe it takes awhile to "learn" his true meanings.



<~~~~~has nothing to do with the beautiful he does
 
well honestly I have learned that I shouldn't post any comments on my colleagues work... and to make things clear ... I just spoke my opinion same as sometimes my work is criticized... I take the criticism in a constructive and not destructive way ... and I pay attention to it so I can improve my work...
regarding the metal frame pic I posted... that is a titanium frame I asked to be developed... it's is in reality extremely strong... n super light...n human hands cannot bend it...but it cost me 2k... so I guess I won't be going in that direction...
so anyway... thanks for the comments n critics
 
I would think carbon fiber tubes that were padded inside a carbon fiber oval tube covered in a nice suede and wrapped by some killer tooled leather would definately be something I'd buy.

I also think for the most part once people start paying over 500 for a case they usually get treated with great care and aren't subjected to the kind of tortur.e you guys are thinking up. If a guy has a 2 x4 tooled up case that cost 1500 plus he probably has at least 5000 worth of cues in it so odds are it never leaves his sight . I also doubt anyone with this equipment picks it up over his head and smashes it to the floor, lights it on fire, or runs over it with a car.

Just my thoughts . Carry on
 
I would think carbon fiber tubes that were padded inside a carbon fiber oval tube covered in a nice suede and wrapped by some killer tooled leather would definately be something I'd buy.

I also think for the most part once people start paying over 500 for a case they usually get treated with great care and aren't subjected to the kind of tortur.e you guys are thinking up. If a guy has a 2 x4 tooled up case that cost 1500 plus he probably has at least 5000 worth of cues in it so odds are it never leaves his sight . I also doubt anyone with this equipment picks it up over his head and smashes it to the floor, lights it on fire, or runs over it with a car.

Just my thoughts . Carry on

I have a customer who had a case that is not padded inside and which allows the cues to move easily.

The case was 2300 the cues inside were around 4500. The snap on the case was defective and would open easily. He was walking out of the pool room in one of the Dakotas (state name withheld to protect everyone) in winter and slipped on the ice. His case hit the ground and the snap opened and his cues went flying and ended up in the snowdrift. He and his friend were on their hands and knees digging around in the snow looking for his cues.

Point being that accidents happen to the most careful people.

If his case had been padded then even if the lid opened the cues would have stayed in the case.
 
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I would think carbon fiber tubes that were padded inside a carbon fiber oval tube covered in a nice suede and wrapped by some killer tooled leather would definately be something I'd buy.

I also think for the most part once people start paying over 500 for a case they usually get treated with great care and aren't subjected to the kind of tortur.e you guys are thinking up. If a guy has a 2 x4 tooled up case that cost 1500 plus he probably has at least 5000 worth of cues in it so odds are it never leaves his sight . I also doubt anyone with this equipment picks it up over his head and smashes it to the floor, lights it on fire, or runs over it with a car.

Just my thoughts . Carry on
you are a million percent correct!
 
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