Tuck and Roll

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
Since you can re-align your stick to exactly the same degree before your stroke, and then have a straight stroke that's much more consistent and reliable than a swooping one, why is this way preferable?

(Have a feeling this has been asked before...)

Joe:
Are you talking about using parallel english?

Terms like that are defined differently by different people, so I'm not sure, but here's what I'm talking about in my own words:

My way:
Aim the shot without sidespin.
Add sidespin and adjust aim before shooting.
Shoot with a straight stroke along the new aim line.

Tuck and Roll (as I understand it):
Aim the shot without sidespin.
Add sidespin and adjust aim simultaneously while shooting (by flexing your wrist, adding a "swoop" to the shot stroke).

If I understand this, it's the same as what some people call "dynamic backhand english", except applied using only the wrist rather than the whole forearm.

You seem to say in your description that you don't "adjust aim" during the shot stroke, but I think you have to adjust aim or you're not adusting for squirve. Maybe we define that phrase ("adjust aim") differently.

pj
chgo

 

[Joe T]

Terms like that are defined differently by different people, so I'm not sure, but here's what I'm talking about in my own words:

My way:
Aim the shot without sidespin.
Add sidespin and adjust aim before shooting.
Shoot with a straight stroke along the new aim line.

How do you apply the side spin?

 

[Patrick Johnson]

Me:
My way:
Aim the shot without sidespin.
Add sidespin and adjust aim before shooting.
Shoot with a straight stroke along the new aim line.

Joe:
How do you apply the side spin?

By moving the entire stick before starting my warmup strokes, pivoting it so it's no longer parallel with the shot line (adjusting aim for squirve) and the tip is where I want to hit the cue ball for the sidespin I want. I don't pay attention to the "pivot point", just to where the stick ends up pointing, which I estimate "by feel" from experience. Then I take all my practice strokes and my shot stroke with my stick traveling in a straight line along this new line.

I think the direction my stick and your stick travels at the moment of impact must be the same (if our sticks are the same) in order to make the shot, but mine is traveling in a straight line and yours is traveling in a curve (swoop) to get there.

pj
chgo

 

[Joe T]

By moving the entire stick before starting my warmup strokes, pivoting it so it's no longer parallel with the shot line (adjusting aim for squirve) and the tip is where I want to hit the cue ball for the sidespin I want. I don't pay attention to the "pivot point", just to where the stick ends up pointing, which I estimate "by feel" from experience. Then I take all my practice strokes and my shot stroke with my stick traveling in a straight line along this new line.

Sounds like you also do a little bit of both, a little front hand and a little backhand just by feel.

I think the direction my stick and your stick travels at the moment of impact must be the same (if our sticks are the same) in order to make the shot, but mine is traveling in a straight line and yours is traveling in a curve (swoop) to get there.

I'm tucked or rolled but not swooping.
Go try the #3a shot in the aiming workout and let me know if you don't feel a little tuck and roll.

 

[Patrick Johnson]

I'm tucked or rolled but not swooping.

Guess I need to read your description a little more carefully.

Go try the #3a shot in the aiming workout and let me know if you don't feel a little tuck and roll.

OK, but I'll have to leave work. I'm sure my boss will understand if you explain it to him.

pj
chgo

 

[Joe T]

Guess I need to read your description a little more carefully.



OK, but I'll have to leave work. I'm sure my boss will understand if you explain it to him.

pj
chgo

Just let him read this post, I'm sure he'll suggest you take an extra looong lunch break.

 

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Edited Because The Post Was Old