Turning down a shaft

Bill the Cat

Bill the Cat

Proud maker of CAT cues
Silver Member
Probably a dumb question, but here goes.

A customer wants you to turn down a shaft. You're taking enough off that you want to machine it rather than sand it. Do you remove the tip and center drill the tip end to use a 60 degree live center or just mount it with the tip still on using a concave live center?
 
i will not

turn a shaft using the concave center, personally i don't think its accurate enough.


chuck
 
Thanks!

Thanks guys!

I didn't think that using a concave live center would be a good idea, but thought I'd ask anyway.

I like Dave's idea, but, I also have to pass on the tip that Kelly_Guy sent me in a PM.

Face off the end of the shaft just as you would for a tip replacement and then glue a "wafer" (3/8" or so thick) of maple on the end of the shaft. The "wafer" can be center drilled and then easily faced off after the shaft has been turned down.
 
I'll have to try the wafer, and center drilling the tip suggestion. I've been drilling a 1/16" center point right on the end of the shaft so small that one of these days the shaft is going to break loose.
 
just center drill the old tip before you remove it.i do it all the time,works perf.

bill
 
Bill the Cat said:
Probably a dumb question, but here goes.

A customer wants you to turn down a shaft. You're taking enough off that you want to machine it rather than sand it. Do you remove the tip and center drill the tip end to use a 60 degree live center or just mount it with the tip still on using a concave live center?
Click to expand...

I'm sure You know Bill, but just make sure that when You start tapering, that the shaft is rolling as true as a shaft you would make Yourself or at least really close to It. If the shaft has too much taper roll in It, then the router can do some real damage, and If so IMO the best way to go is probably turning the ferrule to size out of the jaws, and bringing the taper in By hand. It's a lot more more work, but seems to be the safer option. The trick that Kelly told you works well. The other method of going into the tip works too, but IMO the fibers in some tips can have too much give. Works better on really hard tips IMO.

Greg
 
Doing a T/D by machine is risky as Greg suggested.
If the shaft is not 100% straight & true to begin with, you risk having an
hour-glass taper in the shaft when you're done.
I do all my T/Ds by hand-sanding on the lathe. I feel it allows me better control of the taper.
I think it's debatable as to whether cutting the shaft by machine is quicker.
 
That's why I love my round pole sander. You can easily re-taper and take shafts down without ever removing the tip. It does a beautiful job in just seconds! Probably one of the handiest machines in a cue shop!. Every cuemaker I talked to about the pole sander when I was contemplating shelling out the bucks for one told me that if they lost their pole sander they'd probably quit making cues. Now I feel the same way! You don't NEED one to make cues until you've had the opportunity to use one, then it all changes!
 
round pole sander

cuesmith said:
That's why I love my round pole sander. You can easily re-taper and take shafts down without ever removing the tip. It does a beautiful job in just seconds! Probably one of the handiest machines in a cue shop!. Every cuemaker I talked to about the pole sander when I was contemplating shelling out the bucks for one told me that if they lost their pole sander they'd probably quit making cues. Now I feel the same way! You don't NEED one to make cues until you've had the opportunity to use one, then it all changes!
Click to expand...

I wish I could see a picture of the round pole sander. I'm not sure if it's what I think it is.
 
True dat!

Cue Crazy said:
I'm sure You know Bill, but just make sure that when You start tapering, that the shaft is rolling as true as a shaft you would make Yourself or at least really close to It. If the shaft has too much taper roll in It, then the router can do some real damage, and If so IMO the best way to go is probably turning the ferrule to size out of the jaws, and bringing the taper in By hand. It's a lot more more work, but seems to be the safer option. The trick that Kelly told you works well. The other method of going into the tip works too, but IMO the fibers in some tips can have too much give. Works better on really hard tips IMO.

Greg
Click to expand...

Thanks for joining in Greg!

You bring up a great point. I wouldn't even attempt to machine cut a shaft that had any "noticeable" wobble. However, I started this thread before I checked the shaft. After I spun it in the lathe, I knew I was going to have to go the labor intensive route (sanding):(

In any case, I'm still glad I started the thread. Always great to get input from others in the trade.
 
Is the pole sander your talking about like what they use for bed posts and spindles for furniture fab. I'm trying too visualize myself.
 
Sport666 said:
Is the pole sander your talking about like what they use for bed posts and spindles for furniture fab. I'm trying too visualize myself.
Click to expand...

It's centerless sander that feeds the piece through and sands with a 5" wide belt. Here's a link to an old thread about them that has a couple of pictures of one that Brianna had picked up. Mines a little different than the one in the picture, but similar. http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=140088

I did some searching and it seems that the economy has gotten to the company who used to distribute them. I tried calling there "800" number and it was no longer in service. The machine is made in Asia but there are German manufacturers who make a similar machine at 3 times the price. I bought mine about 10 years ago and it was about $4500 with the shipping. It weighs over 700 lbs. It's intimidating looking but it's a bad mammy jammer!
 
KJ Cues said:
Doing a T/D by machine is risky as Greg suggested.
If the shaft is not 100% straight & true to begin with, you risk having an
hour-glass taper in the shaft when you're done.
I do all my T/Ds by hand-sanding on the lathe. I feel it allows me better control of the taper.
I think it's debatable as to whether cutting the shaft by machine is quicker.
Click to expand...

I agree with KJ here and IMHO a concave center should never be used for anything that requires close torrerances. :thumbup:
 
I use the mill when the shafts are straight enough. I have a dead center with a cup ground to hold the tip. No center drilling. No changing the tip. I stop the mill just short of the ferrule and then turn it to match on my lathe.
 
I don't like sanding. If the shaft isn't straight enough to cut, I usually won't turn them down.
If I can cut them, I center drill the tip, or glue a little piece of maple on the end, and center drill that.
I'd probably like it if I had one of those pole sanders though... :thumbup:
 
Bill the Cat said:
Thanks for joining in Greg!

You bring up a great point. I wouldn't even attempt to machine cut a shaft that had any "noticeable" wobble. However, I started this thread before I checked the shaft. After I spun it in the lathe, I knew I was going to have to go the labor intensive route (sanding):(

In any case, I'm still glad I started the thread. Always great to get input from others in the trade.
Click to expand...


I figured You knew to look for It, and would see It when mounted, but was trying to watch out for ya just the same. It's really common with TD's to have at least enough roll to make machining difficult. Due to the conditions where I'm at, It's probably only 5% or less of the time that I could actually use the router to do some of the work. Usually My own shafts hold well enough for it, but most cues that came from out of My area show some taper roll once mounted in the lathe. There are those rare cases when I get another make shaft, and It rolls dead nuts though. I'm not trying to say My shafts are better at holding then others, I believe It's just due to the fact that they were acclimated and turned in the conditions that They are kept and used in.

Sanding is probably more labor intensive at times then the amount of money in the job, but unfortunately that's usually what It comes down to. Can also burn through some paper which adds more overhead to the job. They make erasers I think for cleaning paper, compressors help too. I usually save My burnt up magic erasers from shaft cleanings, and have found that they work pretty well for cleaning the loose stuff out of the paper, but after several cleanings the paper will still loose It's effectiveness.

I have heard of them being used before, and the pole sander sounds like the way to go, but until I can afford to have one, I still have to do them the hard way.:(

Greg
 
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