Two Different Shots, Yet the Same

mohrt said:
I do agree the vernacular can be confusing, and lead to a lot of mis-spoke stuff. I generated my own language for it, but only use it to myself to avoid more confusion :)

What is a CTEL-A/C, I just call "1".
What is "CTEL-B" I call "2".
what is a thin A/C I call "3".
what is a 1/8 overlap I call "4".

As for sweep, a movement toward CTEL (or away from pocket) I call "out". for a movement away from CTEL (or toward pocket) I call "in". (note this coincides exactly opposite of "inside" and "outside" pivot, so I'm more confused than anyone :thumbup:)

So then shots become simply 1-in, 1-out, 2-in, 2-out, etc. regardless of cut direction.

(for the special close 7/8 overlap I call "0")
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I agree & will certainly have to do the same thing if I ever convert to it.

I was chastised nearly to no end when I first came on AZB & refered to inside english as 'push spin' instead of 'spin induced throw'. To me outside is pull. as in back to me & inside is push as in away from me. The 'me' is the cue ball.

The CTE vernacular makes it 'sound' TOO complicated. I know that it can't be because if I had to describe what I do, I can imagine how it woud sound to a beginner.

Look at all the trouble CJ has had with what is basically a simple although 'different' method of operation. He often refers to squirt/deflection as 'throw'

Many of PJ's 'discussions' were about what he thought the 'proper' vernacular should be.

Thanks again & Best Regards,
 
8pack said:
This mite not mean anything but this is how I do my visual sweep.
Once i got my line up with my body I turn center cb.(I'm there)
Just turn to the center ball thats it for me.:smile:
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Mr. Anthony,

That sounds TOO simple. Can you teach me the proper body alignment? Maybe in PM.:wink:

Just kidding. I need the new DVD first.

Regards,
 
The two shots shown in post #1 require quite different cut angles -- approximately 14 degrees and 36 degrees. If someone used Stan's manual CTE or CTE/Pro1 identically for the two shots, they would be cut at the same angle (because the CB and OB are the same distance apart in the two shots) not at angles differing by 22 degrees.

[Incidentally, for me, both shots are made with a pivot from right to left, but the top shot requires a "C" secondary alignment line (or "aim" line as it is now called), whereas the lower shot is made with a "B" secondary alignment line. If I use a "C" on the lower shot, I drive the OB into the short rail.]

But, obviously, CTE/Pro1 users, for a given CB-OB distance, do produce multiple cut angles from the same set of visuals and pivot direction. That has long been a key area of discussion. Anyone who is new to this topic might benefit from reading this post from two years ago: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showpost.php?p=2965604&postcount=1003

It came from this thread: http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?t=217512

I have been staying out of CTE/Pro1 discussions of late, because they are so repetitive. And I am not interested in engaging in dozens of back-and-forth posts at this time, but I am eager to view and learn from Stan's upcoming DVD, which may well give us some new insight and new things to discuss.

Edit 3/6: I just revised the angles quoted in my first sentence above. The angles I posted earlier were based on simply measuring the angles on my screen from post #1. That is inaccurate because the playing surface itself is not 1x2 on my monitor. So I have revised the angles based on the Billiard Aiming Calculator.
 
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Gerry Williams said:
A picture is worth a thousand words…both shots played with a C visual and a right sweep.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cczALpec_mk&feature=youtu.be

Here is what happens when I use a B visual on that shot. It is approaching a B visual but it is still clearly a C.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YudTlE6nFqs

Chatted with Stan and he says that B looks like 3 in the corner - so I tried it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1A40nhf7sdg&feature=youtu.be
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Nice demo, Gerry.

A CTE PRO ONE visual when followed by a slight rotation to CCB quite frequently results in a geometric solution for pocketing a ball.

When I saw your B shot, I immediately recognized the 3 in the corner bank. Of course, bank shots require attention to speed and spin.
Your speed was perfect. The shot also offered a CCB hit because the CB OB collision put a twist of running on the OB which was optimal for that shot.

I will cover the subject matter for this thread in DVD2.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
Nice demo, Gerry.

A CTE PRO ONE visual when followed by a slight rotation to CCB quite frequently results in a geometric solution for pocketing a ball.

When I saw your B shot, I immediately recognized the 3 in the corner bank. Of course, bank shots require attention to speed and spin.
Your speed was perfect. The shot also offered a CCB hit because the CB OB collision put a twist of running on the OB which was optimal for that shot.

I will cover the subject matter for this thread in DVD2.

Stan Shuffett
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So your saying the op is correct?:confused:
 
stan shuffett said:
Gerry's 2 C shots are correct and the B is as well.

The 2 C shots can be strictly tested with a fixed cue ball and a manual 1/2 tip pivot with prescribed bridge distances.


Stan Shuffett
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I was Talking about the op.:smile: His post is what is in question.

Prescibed bridge distance would Be different on both shots.

The thicker cut shot would require a longer bridge or the thinner hit would require a shorter bridge.;) This would not make it the same shot.(with a manual pivot)

The same shot alinement with a different pocketing angle and you call it the same.

I think I,ve got a better unstanding of things now.Sorry for all bickering Ive caused.

Anthony
 
8pack said:
I was Talking about the op.:smile: His post is what is in question.

Prescibed bridge distance would Be different on both shots.

The thicker cut shot would require a longer bridge or the thinner hit would require a shorter bridge.;) This would not make it the same shot.(with a manual pivot)

The same shot alinement with a different pocketing angle and you call it the same.

I think I,ve got a better unstanding of things now.Sorry for all bickering Ive caused.

Anthony
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AFAIK bridge distance is only affected by the distance between CB/OB, not thickness/thinness of shot. For shots where CB/OB are < 1 diamond apart, the bridge distance needs to be very short. Pro One is more forgiving as you do not need to do a strict pivot on the bridge. For the two given shots, bridge distance would be the same.
 
8pack said:
I was Talking about the op.:smile: His post is what is in question.

Prescibed bridge distance would Be different on both shots.

The thicker cut shot would require a longer bridge or the thinner hit would require a shorter bridge.;) This would not make it the same shot.(with a manual pivot)

The same shot alinement with a different pocketing angle and you call it the same.

I think I,ve got a better unstanding of things now.Sorry for all bickering Ive caused.

Anthony
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The 2 shots have the same bridge distance for manual. The thicker or thinner shot makes no difference.

In Pro One there is leeway as the eyes are in the lead.

Stan Shuffett
 
Actually if you used the manual pivot system with same bridge it would require 2 different pivots.Inside and a outside pivot.
 
This thread and has proven beneficial in that I discovered a shot error for DVD1. This may be only 1 of 2 errors but I am happy to correct them as I learn of the mistake. I am surprised that I missed this one for so long, just have not had reason to dissect that particular again

Stevie's 1 rail bank at 29/31 was listed and shot as inside B. ( no wonder Stevie had so much trouble that shot. My bad! Lol)

The correct shot for 29/31 as a 1 rail bank to pocket 3 is A with CTE and Right.

This will be listed on all future DVD1 updates.

Stan Shuffett
 
If I were to get directly behind the CTE line then I could NOT get a B or a C go with it. That wouldn't work. That would put the CB EDGE between C and B.

It won't work that way, NEVER WILL.

Stan Shuffett
 
stan shuffett said:
This thread and has proven beneficial in that I discovered a shot error for DVD1. This may be only 1 of 2 errors but I am happy to correct them as I learn of the mistake. I am surprised that I missed this one for so long, just have not had reason to dissect that particular again

Stevie's 1 rail bank at 29/31 was listed and shot as inside B. ( no wonder Stevie had so much trouble that shot. My bad! Lol)

The correct shot for 29/31 as a 1 rail bank to pocket 3 is A with CTE and Right.

This will be listed on all future DVD1 updates.

Stan Shuffett
Click to expand...

So that said, there is no CTE solution for the 2-rail bank to the upper corner?
 
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