How about just going with one visual and turning center cb.Sounds easier than 2 visual and some special sweep technique.(thats confusing)That mite change the system though.(not sure)
Two Different Shots, Yet the Same
- Thread starter BeiberLvr
- Start date
If I were to get directly behind the CTE line then I could NOT get a B or a C go with it. That wouldn't work. That would put the CB EDGE between C and B.
It won't work that way, NEVER WILL.
Stan Shuffett
That's what I was thinking.
It won't work that way, NEVER WILL.
Stan Shuffett
That's what I was thinking.
No, but you have the cut across the table and if you are desperate you have a 1/8 inside cross corner bank.
If I were in a tight spot and wanted to do the 2 rail bank as a 3rd option. I would adjust the left CBE to LOB1/8.
Stan Shuffett
I think we agree!
It just plain ol' don't work that way. That is not CTE or even remotely close.
Stan Shuffett
If I were presenting the system in a debate then I would use manual for my foundational explanation. Why? Because every shot is based on 2 CB edges of 360. A 1/2 tip pivot with proper bridge distance will take the shooter to the shot line assuming correct visuals are used.
Manual is very odd to use, though, but it is great for strict testing as it offers extreme objectivity.
Pro One is performance oriented based on the fact that all shots in The system can be made with a 1/2 tip manual pivot. In Pro One all shots are the same. The visuals place one's perception during ball address always at a 1/2 tip pivot away from the shot line. But in Pro One a left or right sweeping of the eyes to the shot line is used to eliminate the undesirable pivoting.
Every sweep in PRO ONE always starts at the same visual offset from any shot line. Pro One is self-refining from day one. It never cease to become easier.
My game is still improving in my 60s and I see no end to it yet.
30 minutes After Landon won his 2nd Junior National Championship I put Landon on the phone with Hal Houle. Hal told Landon, the system will keep getting easier. It's true.
Stan Shuffett
Thanks Stan.
You and your Son are very talented.
Watch the match between Landon and Earl not only did he play great but his composer was just as good.He has a bright future in this game.
Sorry for my opinions on things,I just have a different understanding on things that wont change for me.Just hard headed.
Take care Anthony
From what I can see in the diagram, these shots are both on opposite sides of the border of using C with an inside pivot. No need to have such an extreme example, you can move each one so that it's a little more toward the heart of the C range and demonstrate the same thing.
This to me is the key issue with (and benefit of) the Pro1 system and the source of many arguments, especially when looking at things in 2D terms. I use it, it works, but just look at the shots for a minute - we have two distinct shots the same distance apart in two different locations at two different angles being shot into the same pocket. From a relative viewpoint, the CTEL and edge to C picture should be the same - in other words, the "tunnel" created between the CTEL and edge-to-C lines should be the same. So how can the balls both go in at such obviously different angles and paths to the pocket?
There are only two differences I see - the relationship of the balls and those CTEL and secondary aim lines (the formed "tunnel", or singular 360 view of the cue ball) to the pocket, and the initial position of our body. Something in that relationship is what must be allowing the exact same perception and movements to result in cutting one ball 14 degrees and the other say almost 30.
Maybe there is another variable I can't think of right now. I just know I've given up trying to figure it out, it can be proven at the table, and as I've said before if there isn't some weird math/geometry at work then there is a pretty cool visual trick at work where we are able to visually orientate ourselves very consistently and accurately to these different shot lines without perceiving any sort of feel based movements or tweaks.
Scott
This to me is the key issue with (and benefit of) the Pro1 system and the source of many arguments, especially when looking at things in 2D terms. I use it, it works, but just look at the shots for a minute - we have two distinct shots the same distance apart in two different locations at two different angles being shot into the same pocket. From a relative viewpoint, the CTEL and edge to C picture should be the same - in other words, the "tunnel" created between the CTEL and edge-to-C lines should be the same. So how can the balls both go in at such obviously different angles and paths to the pocket?
There are only two differences I see - the relationship of the balls and those CTEL and secondary aim lines (the formed "tunnel", or singular 360 view of the cue ball) to the pocket, and the initial position of our body. Something in that relationship is what must be allowing the exact same perception and movements to result in cutting one ball 14 degrees and the other say almost 30.
Maybe there is another variable I can't think of right now. I just know I've given up trying to figure it out, it can be proven at the table, and as I've said before if there isn't some weird math/geometry at work then there is a pretty cool visual trick at work where we are able to visually orientate ourselves very consistently and accurately to these different shot lines without perceiving any sort of feel based movements or tweaks.
Scott
I think I have worked out at least part of this puzzle. Stan, Gerry and other CTE users please chime in and verify if this is the same for you:
On the first shot (thicker cut) my right eye picks up both lines. On the second shot (thinner cut) my left eye is picking up both lines.
If your left eye is picking up the lines, this puts your head in a slightly different starting position to land on a thinner shot line. What your mind and body figure out over time are that some shots call for different eye positions, such as CTEL-A with a thinner cut.
Let me know the consensus, I hope I'm not off base :grin:
I figured this out over many repetitions of missing the shot, and I *knew* it would miss. Then sometimes it would line up. It was the difference in eye position.
[edit] Again in my own experience, I think there is a general rule-of-thumb that the right eye picks up thinner cuts to the left, and the left-eye picks up thinner cuts to the right. I've verified some shots with Stan on this.
Last edited:
I have no idea which eye is picking up the lines - I do not think it matters but that is my experience and not fact.
Close one eye and then the other...which one looks correct or both?
It may not be important to know which eye is picking up the line consciously, but it certainly makes a difference in the outcome of the shot. You have learned through repetition to use the correct eye position. It's easy to check, once you are in position, close one eye then the other, see what each eye sees.
Ok - will check and let you know.I am right eye dominant - I know this.
Error in my post
Stan Shuffett
Stan Shuffett
Last edited:
Error in my post, sorry for deletion
Are the two ( 2) bridge distances different?
mohrt, I cannot confirm that your rule of thumb is the universal explanation for how CTE/ProOne works to produce different cut angles for two shots with the same visuals, same pivot, and same CB-OB distance. But I can confirm that it is different eye positions that Stan said was the explanation two years ago (as I said early today in the post I quoted from two years ago).
I know for me with Pro1 or SEE I don't think about which eye is doing what, it has never seemed necessary to do so. Standing behind the shot I feel like I can use the benefit of normal binocular vision and let my eyes work together, or independently in a natural way, to pick up the line(s) for the shot without any conscious thought.
Even if that were necessary, I don't see how the two shots in question would be sighted differently, or how that would affect initial body position or rotation amounts? But maybe that's just me, I'm all for learning how other people have learned to perceive the visuals and execute the shots.
Scott
Even if that were necessary, I don't see how the two shots in question would be sighted differently, or how that would affect initial body position or rotation amounts? But maybe that's just me, I'm all for learning how other people have learned to perceive the visuals and execute the shots.
Scott