Understanding which Simonis cloth for next re-cover

[PickeringRC]

Hi guys, I am sure this has been asked before however I can't find it in the forum. Short version of a story is that I have a new Simonis cloth in my favour, and I must choose which version and color I want (to be used in the future on my home table when the current cloth needs replacing)

To the best of my understanding (please correct me for anything that is wrong!)

Simonis 860: Tournament cloth used worldwide, most precise, also slowest
Simonis 860HR: Similar to above, little faster but more hard wearing, often found on tables that get a lot of use
Simonis 760: Fastest of the three and is the predecesor to the seemingly better 860

As it is unfortunately not realistically possible to "test" all three, what do you usually base a decision or recommendation on? or is it purely personal preference?

How big or noticeable is the speed difference between the three? If the 860 is "most precise", should that be understood as it being the most reactive to spin, in which case it is the "slowest" to outright roll but is also the "fastest" with spin? Or is it simply more precise due to it being slower and the balls will "only go as far as you hit them"?

Thanks! Martin

 

[rexus31]

What kind of table, what cushions and how old are the cushions?

 

[PickeringRC]

What kind of table, what cushions and how old are the cushions?

Its not a known brand table, but its a 7+ foot (2.2m x 1.1m play area) 22mm slate table.

Was brand new in September, with Klematch cushions. Currently has Simonis 720

 

[rexus31]

IMO, 760 is too fast for a bar table. I'd go with 860 or 860HR. 860HR is only available in

• Simonis Green™
• Blue-Green
• Tournament Blue™
• Royal Blue

If you want a different color, you'll have to go with 860.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Simonis 860: Tournament cloth used worldwide, most precise, also slowest
Simonis 860HR: Similar to above, little faster but more hard wearing, often found on tables that get a lot of use
Simonis 760: Fastest of the three and is the predecesor to the seemingly better 860

Thanks! Martin

Sounds like you have it dialed in, whats your question? Yes, tournament blue is difficult to get right now. most retailers have it in and out of stock. Championship Tour 30/30 in Championship Blue is a very comparable product. Make sure whomever installs it for you is aware of the difference from Simonis.

Your "fine detail" questions add up to this: How good of a player are you? The details you are asking for leads me to believe you are an A player. I say this because an "A" player can notice stuff like that, but, I am safely saying most players cannot quantify those details into an explanation for you.

TFT

 

[PickeringRC]

Thanks for the replies guys.

whats your question?

My question really is how do I reach the "same" conclusion that rexus31 has done:

IMO, 760 is too fast for a bar table.

Or put another way, if most people seem to be looking at either 860 or 860HR (both bar tables as Rexus31 has hinted to, and also pro and competition tables), why is 760 still available. Even on both Simonis websites, it doesn't hint as to when to choose which...
Surely the continued existence of 760 is due to it being more favourable over the 860's in certain scenarios, so roughly speaking, what kind of scenarios might that be, or when would you actually recommend 760 over its big brother?

Your "fine detail" questions add up to this: How good of a player are you? The details you are asking for leads me to believe you are an A player. I say this because an "A" player can notice stuff like that

I look forward to the day that I could accept that complement! I am confident in my game, and can usually both pot and play with the white for position, however I still have a heck of a lot to learn and improve upon.
A lot of the "details" that I am looking for are probably more me over-thinking than experience though. Probably force of habbit... I have been incredibly fortunate in my other hobby to reach the top of the game, but with anything too far from perfection becoming both dangerous and costly, I probably do over-think, measure and contrast decision, and try to understand intricacies too much! (Flying large model aircraft - feel free to google Martin Pickering)

 

[rexus31]

Or put another way, if most people seem to be looking at either 860 or 860HR (both bar tables as Rexus31 has hinted to, and also pro and competition tables), why is 760 still available. Even on both Simonis websites, it doesn't hint as to when to choose which...
Surely the continued existence of 760 is due to it being more favourable over the 860's in certain scenarios, so roughly speaking, what kind of scenarios might that be, or when would you actually recommend 760 over its big brother?

Simonis 760 is usually installed on 9' tables where bank pool, straight pool and one pocket are played. I've also seen it on 12' tables setup for Golf. IMO, it is a poor choice for a 7' table for any game.

 

[bradsh98]

Or put another way, if most people seem to be looking at either 860 or 860HR (both bar tables as Rexus31 has hinted to, and also pro and competition tables), why is 760 still available. Even on both Simonis websites, it doesn't hint as to when to choose which...
Surely the continued existence of 760 is due to it being more favourable over the 860's in certain scenarios, so roughly speaking, what kind of scenarios might that be, or when would you actually recommend 760 over its big brother?

Simply having the ability to order apple pie with mushroom gravy on top, doesn't mean that it's worth eating.

760 is WAY too fast for a 7' table. It's even too fast for an 8' table.
However, as with all things, it's just a matter of opinion.

As for the benefits: 760 has nice durability, as compared to 860. 860HR is the compromise. It has the durability of 760, with a speed that is only slightly faster than 860.

 

[TrxR]

So if a person was going to get a new 9ft table what cloth would you get? It will be used for 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball as well as learning 14.1 , pockets will be 4.25 corners if it makes any difference.

 

[garczar]

Simply having the ability to order apple pie with mushroom gravy on top, doesn't mean that it's worth eating.

760 is WAY too fast for a 7' table. It's even too fast for an 8' table.
However, as with all things, it's just a matter of opinion.

As for the benefits: 760 has nice durability, as compared to 860. 860HR is the compromise. It has the durability of 760, with a speed that is only slightly faster than 860.

In my dealings with playing on Simonis 760 wears the fastest. Its the thinnest and also shows marks the worst. Here's a good comparison:https://www.classicbilliards.net/pool-table-felt-cloth/simonis/compare-760-vs-860-vs-860hr.html Reg. 860 is the only on to use on a barbox.

 

[rexus31]

So if a person was going to get a new 9ft table what cloth would you get? It will be used for 8 ball, 9 ball, 10 ball as well as learning 14.1 , pockets will be 4.25 corners if it makes any difference.

860HR unless you must have a color that isn't available in HR. In that instance, 860.

 

[Sheldon]

I put 860 and 860 HR on tables in the same room, indexed the same, and the HR is not any faster than the regular cloth. If anything the 860 seems slightly faster. The last 860HR I got was very different from what I've been used to. I will not be getting more until I am sure they have solved whatever issue they are having.

 

[garczar]

I put 860 and 860 HR on tables in the same room, indexed the same, and the HR is not any faster than the regular cloth. If anything the 860 seems slightly faster. The last 860HR I got was very different from what I've been used to. I will not be getting more until I am sure they have solved whatever issue they are having.

Must have not been installed right. HR is definitly faster than 860. Try ANDY988. Great cloth. A lil faster than HR.,

 

[FrankieD]

I had 860HR on my home 8' table for 4 years. I liked the speed. I have since moved and for the last 3 years have played with 860 on my 7' Diamond. The regular 860 on a 7' plays perfectly. Even though I really liked the slightly faster 860HR, I think it may roll a bit too fast for the 7'.

 

[garczar]

Must have not been installed right. HR is definitly faster than 860. Try ANDY988. Great cloth. A lil faster than HR.,

HR is faster than 860. Always has been. Its a different blend/weave than 860. If its slower that its not stretched correctly.

 

[David in FL]

Must have not been installed right. HR is definitly faster than 860. Try ANDY988. Great cloth. A lil faster than HR.,

In my somewhat limited experience, the Andy doesn’t hold up as well as the HR and takes longer to settle down from the initial slickness.

Not a bad cloth at all though…

 

[garczar]

In my somewhat limited experience, the Andy doesn’t hold up as well as the HR and takes longer to settle down from the initial slickness.

Not a bad cloth at all though…

The 988 in my home spot wore every bit as good as HR. Got a ton of play and still looked good a yr later.

 

[trentfromtoledo]

Thanks for the replies guys.



My question really is how do I reach the "same" conclusion that rexus31 has done:


Or put another way, if most people seem to be looking at either 860 or 860HR (both bar tables as Rexus31 has hinted to, and also pro and competition tables), why is 760 still available. Even on both Simonis websites, it doesn't hint as to when to choose which...
Surely the continued existence of 760 is due to it being more favourable over the 860's in certain scenarios, so roughly speaking, what kind of scenarios might that be, or when would you actually recommend 760 over its big brother?


I look forward to the day that I could accept that complement! I am confident in my game, and can usually both pot and play with the white for position, however I still have a heck of a lot to learn and improve upon.
A lot of the "details" that I am looking for are probably more me over-thinking than experience though. Probably force of habbit... I have been incredibly fortunate in my other hobby to reach the top of the game, but with anything too far from perfection becoming both dangerous and costly, I probably do over-think, measure and contrast decision, and try to understand intricacies too much! (Flying large model aircraft - feel free to google Martin Pickering)

My Starrett Machinist level: one line is .005 per line. Thats about as picky as I get about stuff.

760 is a great cloth for a 9ft table, but, its just my opinion, what do I know??

TFT

 

[realkingcobra]

Strachan Superweave on a 7ft Diamond with 6 weeks of play on it in the Pocket Pool room in Boise, ID. Room has 20 tables, leagues 4 nights a week, and is the preferred table to play on by the league players.

And no ball burnish marks on it anywhere, no break lines, no rack marks.

 

[garczar]

Strachan Superweave on a 7ft Diamond with 6 weeks of play on it in the Pocket Pool room in Boise, ID. Room has 20 tables, leagues 4 nights a week, and is the preferred table to play on by the league players.

And no ball burnish marks on it anywhere, no break lines, no rack marks.

Is this still made? Not on their site anymore. Not worsted? Looks like Mercury Ultra.