Unethical Win at Swanee 2014

CreeDo said:
Not a valid comparison. A referee ruled on it.
You have no choice but to accept a ref's ruling, whether you love it or hate it.

snip.......
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What Greg said said:
at 6-6 (7-6) my opponent takes a break I go to get a water and am informed about my score being wrong. a couple people had been trying to get my attention in the stands by waving their arms earlier but I was focused on my match and did not notice.

after knowing this I go to the back of the room to speak to the tournament director. i explain what happened and that it has been confirmed by pool-trax and everyone watching online and in the stands knew. and there was video proof. I was told that because it was so many games ago that it would not count.
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Thank you for making my case!:thumbup:

I am not trying to sway the opinions of the Ethical Elite. I am simply trying to provide a point of view based on facts and logic. In the event that there are some open(or young and impressionable) minds viewing this thread.

I already told skyscraper that had Greg pled his case to his opponent first there might be a basis for an ethical argument. The fact that Greg went to the Tournament Director(the head referee) and got a ruling before Chris even knew there was a problem means............
CreeDo said:
A referee ruled on it.
You have no choice but to accept a ref's ruling, whether you love it or hate it.
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gregcantrall said:
Thank you for making my case!:thumbup:

I am not trying to sway the opinions of the Ethical Elite. I am simply trying to provide a point of view based on facts and logic. In the event that there are some open(or young and impressionable) minds viewing this thread.

I already told skyscraper that had Greg pled his case to his opponent first there might be a basis for an ethical argument. The fact that Greg went to the Tournament Director(the head referee) and got a ruling before Chris even knew there was a problem means............
CreeDo said:
A referee ruled on it.
You have no choice but to accept a ref's ruling, whether you love it or hate it.
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Many on here still are trying to make the case that you have to take a win if the ref says you win. It's called a forfeit, and a forfeit can be made at anytime by any player. Show me a rule that says forfeits are against the rules.

My ENTIRE CASE is that it is legal, and ultimately the right thing to do to concede a match to which - IN REALITY - you did not win. That's all.
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SkyscraperChris said:
gregcantrall said:
Thank you for making my case!:thumbup:

I am not trying to sway the opinions of the Ethical Elite. I am simply trying to provide a point of view based on facts and logic. In the event that there are some open(or young and impressionable) minds viewing this thread.

I already told skyscraper that had Greg pled his case to his opponent first there might be a basis for an ethical argument. The fact that Greg went to the Tournament Director(the head referee) and got a ruling before Chris even knew there was a problem means............

Many on here still are trying to make the case that you have to take a win if the ref says you win. It's called a forfeit, and a forfeit can be made at anytime by any player. Show me a rule that says forfeits are against the rules.

My ENTIRE CASE is that it is legal, and ultimately the right thing to do to concede a match to which - IN REALITY - you did not win. That's all.
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You can forfeit any time you like for any reason you like. Had Chris forfeited after the match was scored as a win the proper ruling would be his next opponent got a bye.
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SkyscraperChris said:
gregcantrall said:
How would that work? Chris forfeits, goes to losers side, and then his opponent gets a bye?? Explain
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Chris can not say I forfeit give Greg the win after the match. He can say I forfeit give Greg the win before the last game. From reading Greg's account and viewing the POV video on youtube, He was never asked to forfeit until the match was over and he had been declared the winner. A forfeit at that point would mean his next opponent got a bye whether it was winners or losers bracket. Greg would still go to the losers bracket spot prescribed by a lose to Chris or out depending on where that match was played(winners or losers side).
If it was indeed a winners bracket match, it would be unfair to the next opponent in that bracket to change out Chris for Greg after Chris was ruled the winner.

That call would be up to the Tournament Director and I have seen that call go both ways. Just my opinion as to what is the right call.
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The most unethical part of this whole fiasco is the OP in this thread.


Karma has a way of catching up to those who judge others.
 
If you truly know then take the loss and move on. I could never do this to anybody
without feeling like a complete cheat or d--khead or both:smile:
 
itsfroze said:
The most unethical part of this whole fiasco is the OP in this thread.


Karma has a way of catching up to those who judge others.
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You are right about the karma though - anything and everything bad that ever occurs to me in my life will be directly and attributed to this thread.
 
SkyscraperChris said:
Says the guy who is not only judging, but has more posts in this thread than anyone else.
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How does one get to be so self-righteous?

I'm just thankful that I would never even consider
starting a thread with the title "Unethical Win at Swanee 2014"
But then again I don't see myself as better than others or
it being my place to judge others.

I feel sorry for people who go through life thinking they are
superior to others I guess that's a punishment in it's self.

Does it make someone feel like a big man to trash a kid who just
turned 16 on a public forum. A kid who did nothing but abide by
the tournament directors decision. It's really hard to understand
the motivation behind such actions.

I might have a hundred more posts in this thread if that's what it
takes to fight this stupidity.
 
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itsfroze said:
How does one get to be so self-righteous?

I'm just thankful that I would never even consider
starting a thread with the title "Unethical Win at Swanee 2014"
But then again I don't see myself as better than others or
it being my place to judge others.

I feel sorry for people who go through life thinking they are
superior to others I guess that's a punishment in it's self.

Does it make someone feel like a big man to trash a kid who just
turned 16 on a public forum. A kid who did nothing but abide by
the tournament directors decision. It's really hard to understand
the motivation behind such actions.

I might have a hundred more posts in this thread if that's what it
takes to fight this stupidity.
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Your hypocrisy is so blatant you don't even notice it. "I'm just thankful that I would never even consider starting a thread with the title "Unethical Win at Swanee 2014". That's pretty clear-cut self-righteousness. Tell me more about how you're not perpetrating exactly what you are accusing me of.
 
The thread title says it all, "Unethical Win at Swanee 2014"
Not a surprise that you started out by doing what you claim
someone else to be doing. Sometimes when something is
right in front of a person it's the hardest to see.
You'll either realize it or you won't. I feel sad for you.
 
itsfroze said:
The thread title says it all, "Unethical Win at Swanee 2014"
Not a surprise that you started out by doing what you claim
someone else to be doing. Sometimes when something is
right in front of a person it's the hardest to see.
You'll either realize it or you won't. I feel sad for you.
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You should feel sad, I am very misguided. Thank you for showing me the way. In the end, all that matters is that you would do what you feel is right in this situation. YOU feel that the right, ethical thing to do is take a win, I feel that the right, ethical thing would be to concede. There really is no need to get heated, become condescending, or take things personally. If and when this situation arises, do what you feel is right.
 
SkyscraperChris said:
You should feel sad, I am very misguided. Thank you for showing me the way. In the end, all that matters is that you would do what you feel is right in this situation. YOU feel that the right, ethical thing to do is take a win, I feel that the right, ethical thing would be to concede. There really is no need to get heated, become condescending, or take things personally. If and when this situation arises, do what you feel is right.
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"If and when this situation arises, do what you feel is right"

I knew there was something I could agree with you on. :thumbup:
 
SkyscraperChris said:
You should feel sad, I am very misguided. Thank you for showing me the way. In the end, all that matters is that you would do what you feel is right in this situation. YOU feel that the right, ethical thing to do is take a win, I feel that the right, ethical thing would be to concede. There really is no need to get heated, become condescending, or take things personally. If and when this situation arises, do what you feel is right.
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In my opinion the people who would take the win in this situation would also take the loss if they were in Greg's shoes. That is how I feel about it. I believe it is the right thing to do no matter what outcome it has regarding me. Some people have said the only thing that matters is winning and if you hold the view that Chris gets the win you are unethical. I believe it would be unethical if you took the stance of being the winner no matter which side of the incident you were on.
 
SkyscraperChris said:
Well said. It appears to me that most here value winning above all else.
I just can't believe this many people TRULY think that rules should always trump ethics
in such a black and white manner.
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Here's the weird part... I don't think it's a rule!

I can't find any rulebook that says "if you fail to mark up your score
and ___ games pass, that game is treated as if it never happened."

It's not a rule, it's some made-up, unspoken, unwritten "house rule"
like something two guys might use when gambling.

There's no "you snooze you lose" in ANY rulebooks,
someone prove me wrong and I'll chew on that crow.

So without a *specific, written rule* about this situation, players (and refs)
are forced to use common sense and common decency to make a decision about how to handle it.

The decision to pretend the win never happened, despite plenty of evidence that it did,
directly goes against common sense and common decency.
 
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