I do not think it has anything to do with back hand/fingers, it is how far tip from CB, the further it is the less you need to pull stroke, but follow through is a must to maintain stroke speed and not put the break in the middle of the forward stroke. If you hard grip the butt it is a bit different, you muscles get in the way then of pure stick weight momentum.
Unique stroke technique
- Thread starter JoeyA
- Start date
I do not think it has anything to do with back hand/fingers, it is how far tip from CB, the further it is the less you need to pull stroke, but follow through is a must to maintain stroke speed and not put the break in the middle of the forward stroke. If you hard grip the butt it is a bit different, you muscles get in the way then of pure stick weight momentum.
I'm talking about the dart stroke for jumping.
I am very sorry, you are right then. You know, we eat and drink pool here so i got the mixer upper, my apologies...
Yes, a verrrrry short back-stroke with little follow-thru. Thought that wassa dart stroke from yrs ago. Much like throwing a dart.
Thanks Justin for reminding me that the jump stroke is now called a dart stroke
Short Stroke • Push Stroke • Jab Stroke • Skort
I wanted to confess that I have used this technique in the past, especially when I was under pressure, had a difficult shot, that I needed additional precision that my crooked stroke doesn't always provide, and/or where I needed to slow up the normal speed of the cue ball. But before I commented about me using it, I wanted to see how large of a vigilante group would be assembled.
Candidly, I wanted to see as much discussion and receive as many perspectives as might be persuaded from the good posters of AZB.
Whatever the name of this stroke, it does not normally receive much praise, although many pool players use it from time to time. Most probably use it "because it works" for them on a particular type of shot(s).
Because it is so often used by such great players as well as others like ourselves, I thought that it deserved a more respectful name than "jab" or "push" which to me, seem negative in some way, with those names suggesting that the stroke isn't a complete stroke.
Maybe "jab" doesn't sound negative to any of you. Whatever the name that sticks, the stroke should be reveled, not quietly dismissed or stuck in some corner for a few to appreciate.
Thanks to all who posted.
JoeyA
I wanted to confess that I have used this technique in the past, especially when I was under pressure, had a difficult shot, that I needed additional precision that my crooked stroke doesn't always provide, and/or where I needed to slow up the normal speed of the cue ball. But before I commented about me using it, I wanted to see how large of a vigilante group would be assembled.
Candidly, I wanted to see as much discussion and receive as many perspectives as might be persuaded from the good posters of AZB.
Whatever the name of this stroke, it does not normally receive much praise, although many pool players use it from time to time. Most probably use it "because it works" for them on a particular type of shot(s).
Because it is so often used by such great players as well as others like ourselves, I thought that it deserved a more respectful name than "jab" or "push" which to me, seem negative in some way, with those names suggesting that the stroke isn't a complete stroke.
Maybe "jab" doesn't sound negative to any of you. Whatever the name that sticks, the stroke should be reveled, not quietly dismissed or stuck in some corner for a few to appreciate.
Thanks to all who posted.
JoeyA
Grady Mathews was another great player who frequently "pushed" the cue ball using a similar abbreviated stroke or partial stroke. There seems to be varying degrees of length of back-swing or back-stroke that accompany this particular stroke and it varies from one player to the next.
I suppose that the distance that the shooter places the tip "at rest" or "address" is partially what determines the length of the back stroke for the "abbreviated stroke". If your tip is almost touching the cue ball when addressing the cue ball, you have to have some back swing or it will be difficult to easily roll the cue ball forward. I think the word "push" shouldn't be used in describing this stroke either as that word conjures up all sorts of heresy exclamations.
If your cue tip is 2-3 inches away from the cue ball, the cue stick has a chance to build it's momentum before hitting the cue ball if only for a couple of inches, better than a push, I suppose.
JoeyA
I suppose that the distance that the shooter places the tip "at rest" or "address" is partially what determines the length of the back stroke for the "abbreviated stroke". If your tip is almost touching the cue ball when addressing the cue ball, you have to have some back swing or it will be difficult to easily roll the cue ball forward. I think the word "push" shouldn't be used in describing this stroke either as that word conjures up all sorts of heresy exclamations.
If your cue tip is 2-3 inches away from the cue ball, the cue stick has a chance to build it's momentum before hitting the cue ball if only for a couple of inches, better than a push, I suppose.
JoeyA
Shane Van Boening
I don't have time to find video of Shane doing this, but I have seen him using a very short back stroke on more than one occasion as well as most other top players. I think they just do it intuitively, although I do agree with you that Shane full strokes almost every shot.
Like others have mentioned, we all come in different shapes, sizes and muscular dimensions so I think too, that it is only natural that we have idiosyncrasies that define our particular stroke and game.
This is one stroke that should be taught but I am afraid that some might depend upon it if it is taught too early in a player's development. This shortened stroke could be a crutch of sorts to avoid the need for having a full, straight stroke.
JoeyA
I don't have time to find video of Shane doing this, but I have seen him using a very short back stroke on more than one occasion as well as most other top players. I think they just do it intuitively, although I do agree with you that Shane full strokes almost every shot.
Like others have mentioned, we all come in different shapes, sizes and muscular dimensions so I think too, that it is only natural that we have idiosyncrasies that define our particular stroke and game.
This is one stroke that should be taught but I am afraid that some might depend upon it if it is taught too early in a player's development. This shortened stroke could be a crutch of sorts to avoid the need for having a full, straight stroke.
JoeyA
I agree -- Tor not only is a solid instructor, but has a very good instructor "presence." That is, he's got good speaking ability (none of the typical anomalies that "Joe Poolplayer but-now-I-want-to-be-an-instructor" exhibit), a voice that projects easily, a good attitude that comes across immediately, and finally, great production.
Sloppy Pockets, if you really want to learn the slip stroke, I'd recommend my mini tutorial that I posted a good while back:
Slip stroke "how to" -- Part 1 of 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2164385#post2164385
Slip stroke "how to" -- Part 2 of 2:
http://forums.azbilliards.com/showthread.php?p=2164387#post2164387
Yes, I used to use the slip stroke primarily at one time. I've since abandoned it, because adopting snooker fundamentals, for me, has completely revolutionized my game.
And, don't forget that the "slip and regrip" process is essentially momentarily losing control of the cue. Not a big deal in pool -- because of the more forgiving pockets -- but try that on a snooker table, and watch yourself wondering why you keep missing by the ever-so-slightest amount. Snooker fundamentals mean controlling everything, including the fulcrum of the cue in your grip hand, and never losing control in that crucial spot.
EDIT: the jab stroke is the one you're more likely to see snooker players that play pool -- e.g. Alex Pagulayan, Tony Drago -- use in the wild.
Hope this is helpful!
-Sean
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I have also noticed that a lot of top players push the cueball on certain shots.
In addition if you ever watched Scott Frost, notice all the crazy hand positions he uses when he is trying for pinpoint shape.
I believe each position allows him better feel for the speed on certain shots , but it's just my theory.
Then you have guys like Gary Spaeth who was like an anaconda on the table , he would have a knee in a pocket , his elbow wedged under a rail and every part of his body he could get in contact with the table , was just that.
I think all of these nuances have purpose, I just don't know exactly why.
I asked Scott about it a couple of times and he acted like he didn't hear me once and told me he didn't realize he did it the other.
Scott is a magician, a master of misdirection, so I have to believe he has a purpose and that it works extremely well for him.
He gets perfect angles on balls, that you would have a hard time placing the ball with your hand in such a small area when he is playing great.
Efren and Cliff were the only other people I have watched with similar precision..