Unwanted Advice. Center Twist/English -.-

[Drop The Rock]

So I'm hitting balls on a tight 9 ft at my favorite pool room. This older gentleman who I had played for free with had been coming around lately and liked to talk a lot. He always offered different types of advice whether it was asked for or not. Lots of look at the lights reflection and aim the center of this over to that etc etc.

I get down eye pattern and shoot using feel and contact points, so all this shit he is telling me is just throwing me off. I told him this and he insisted that it would take the guess work out. I missed two banks he was trying to demonstrate by using this method and he said here let me show ya. 4 attempts later he makes the shot. Now here is the good part. He insists that I should be using center english...I said there is no such thing. Then he says "Yeah center twist" as in a swoop technique. He also insisted that this was much different than using left or right english with by lining up based on deflection (which it isnt) and that the only way I'd get good is by doing this same thing.... I then made some points about how I prefer my method because it keeps my stroke consistent and that his method can cause inconsistency in how much english is applied.

Now for the ultimate test, the "90 degree frozen end rail shot." It takes him 3 tries to get even close to cutting the ball and 2 more to make it, all the while he was claiming his method would improve my game. After is dissertation on "center english" I get down and shoot the shot and hang it up.

To his credit he has some knowledge of moving in one pocket, but he does some goofy ass shit and blames the weed when he misses or doesn't make sense. It works for him, but doesn't work for me. Just like CTE lol.



​

 

[West Point 1987]

Honestly, sounds like he's trying to help you out...my advice is to give him a little respectful attention, and change the subject from instruction to war stories, while shooting him some racks of your favorite flavor game. Eventually he'll get tired of trying to give you "wisdom" and shoot around with you and wander off to "help" some other player. Beware, though, just one of his tips may accidentally turn out to be a powerful tool that cinches a category of shots you might be so-so on. Kind of tough to play this game forever without picking up a few tricks along the way. When I was younger I used to get lots of unsolicited advice from old timers, some of them pretty tough road players. Some of them just drunk bangers. I usually blew them off, and occasionally the tips some of them gave were really good ones; it took me years to "get it". Sometimes it was the way they explained it (it just sounded crazy), sometimes I just thought I already knew better.

 

[BRussell]

I've heard all the same things over and over. It's funny how so many pool players in a typical pool room - even really good players - don't have a clue why things work or even how they themselves are doing things.

I don't put much stock in experience. I think about how many doctors/healers did absolutely crazy things, for centuries, and thought they were effective. It's because you need to test things carefully and distrust your own experience.

It frustrates me when here on AZB people complain about the physics nerds. Your friend there had some theories about physics - they were just BS. All pool players think about physics and geometry, it's just a question of whether it's sensible physics and geometry or not.

Having said that, I've learned a ton from some of the older players I play with. Not so much the mechanics of shooting or aiming, but more about strategy, like a good safety choice or a better way to get position.

 

[Celophanewrap]

Honestly, sounds like he's trying to help you out...my advice is to give him a little respectful attention, and change the subject from instruction to war stories, while shooting him some racks of your favorite flavor game. Eventually he'll get tired of trying to give you "wisdom" and shoot around with you and wander off to "help" some other player. Beware, though, just one of his tips may accidentally turn out to be a powerful tool that cinches a category of shots you might be so-so on. Kind of tough to play this game forever without picking up a few tricks along the way. When I was younger I used to get lots of unsolicited advice from old timers, some of them pretty tough road players. Some of them just drunk bangers. I usually blew them off, and occasionally the tips some of them gave were really good ones; it took me years to "get it". Sometimes it was the way they explained it (it just sounded crazy), sometimes I just thought I already knew better.

I agree, I think it's always important to show respect to the people that came before us.
The methods may have changed and updated and maybe he's a little behind or he doesn't move or see like he used to but he might just show you something you don't know. There's probably a lot of wisdom in all those years and all that experience.

 

[bdorman]

Next time he misses a shot, tell him what he did wrong and how to fix it.

And then, next time he misses a shot, tell him what he did wrong and how to fix it.

One or two more times and he'll tell you to shut up.

"Okay, I won't offer any more advice if you won't either." Sometimes people just don't understand how aggrevating their "help" can be.

 

[Straightpool_99]

He probably means well. Keep that in mind. You never know when you might need a friend at the pool hall, you can't have too many. You could always pretend to agree and continue to do your own thing, that usually works.

 

[336Robin]

Listen is Right

Honestly, sounds like he's trying to help you out...my advice is to give him a little respectful attention, and change the subject from instruction to war stories, while shooting him some racks of your favorite flavor game. Eventually he'll get tired of trying to give you "wisdom" and shoot around with you and wander off to "help" some other player. Beware, though, just one of his tips may accidentally turn out to be a powerful tool that cinches a category of shots you might be so-so on. Kind of tough to play this game forever without picking up a few tricks along the way. When I was younger I used to get lots of unsolicited advice from old timers, some of them pretty tough road players. Some of them just drunk bangers. I usually blew them off, and occasionally the tips some of them gave were really good ones; it took me years to "get it". Sometimes it was the way they explained it (it just sounded crazy), sometimes I just thought I already knew better.

I read West Points reply below and I have to concur. Listen and then do what you think is best. These old players come from a school of thought that I incidentally prescribe to and have come to call......The Organic Whole.

The thing about the Organic Whole is that its hard to tell people how you do what you do but some of these players are deadly as is evidenced in the Pro Players of today and yesterday. Have you ever asked anyone how they aim? An Organic Whole player might say something like....I just use the edge of the ball to tell me what to do....which incidentally I saw Efren say to a reporter on a youtube years ago.

Ive had some interesting things told to me and several of them ended up being gems I would not want to do without. One was a banking technique that I still employ today on certain banks that it works very well on.

This is the very reason Organic/Natural Players get all torn up over some Aiming Systems....is that they know its not the whole picture but they have trouble describing what is.

 

[fastone371]

Ive had some interesting things told to me and several of them ended up being gems I would not want to do without. One was a banking technique that I still employ today on certain banks that it works very well on.
.[/SIZE]

How about sharing these gems with your friends here on AZB??? :smile:

 

[TATE]

I agree, irritating unless someone is a good player, then we might learn something. (Good players tend to keep it to themselves, however).

If you think pool is bad, try golf. Pearls of "wisdom" are an art form in golf. These guys that read every golf magazine and can't break 90 are the worst, plus if you get one in your group you have to endure the BS for 18 holes.