Up and down the table and back to your tip using draw

[pinkisntwell]

I'm talking about the well known way to check if your stroke is straight. I think that most players here will find that they can do this pretty easily, especially if they put a chalk cube on the opposite end so they have something to aim at.

But I was trying it using draw and I can't do it. The cue ball gets a big amount of side spin when played that way. Has anyone here spent time in this shot using draw? Does it get better with practice or is it a necessary evil?

 

[Barbara]

But I was trying it using draw and I can't do it. The cue ball gets a big amount of side spin when played that way. Has anyone here spent time in this shot using draw? Does it get better with practice or is it a necessary evil?

Why not drill with an object ball and keep your cue on the table after firing the shot and see if the CB comes straight back?

Barbara

 

[pinkisntwell]

Why not drill with an object ball and keep your cue on the table after firing the shot and see if the CB comes straight back?

Barbara

That's another way to do it. Of course the two balls would have to be lined up exactly and there should be a good distance (about 3/4*table length) between them.

 

[BRKNRUN]

I'm talking about the well known way to check if your stroke is straight. I think that most players here will find that they can do this pretty easily, especially if they put a chalk cube on the opposite end so they have something to aim at.

But I was trying it using draw and I can't do it. The cue ball gets a big amount of side spin when played that way. Has anyone here spent time in this shot using draw? Does it get better with practice or is it a necessary evil?

I do this drill where I place a ball in the side pocket, and draw the CB from various poitions into the other side pocket or corner pocket in an attempt to make the ball...I think it helps to develop control of where the CB is going from different angles..(and still pocket the ball)

I also noticed efren doing this at the start of each of his matches...While the other guy is racking he will hit the CB at a firm pace with extreme draw into the side rail....I think he was both checking to see if his stroke was straight and also to loosen up as he did not take any warm up before a match.

If the extreme draw into the rail drill is being done by the best player in the world....my guess is that it is probably a drill that anyone trying to improve thier game should be doing....

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%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%O[5D7%PV2S4%QZ2T3%RW2T5%ST7V3%W[4G0
%X[0Y2%[q2E9%\[1Y2%]g7D8%^g6[0
)END

 

[recoveryjones]

Set up some straight ins of various lengths into the side pocket.Try to shoot the object ball into the side and then draw the cue ball into the other side pocket. The further the distance between object ball to cue ball, the tougher the shot.

Do it infront of a mirror if at all possible and see if your elbow is falling off to one side.An inward wrist twist can be a common thing (for amatuers) when executing a draw stroke.A good way to prevent that is to not drop your elbow when stroking.

You can see this drill and other straight stroke drills at this snooker link:


http://www.snookergames.co.uk/tuition.html

Also one note on shooting up and down the table to test stroke:

Bert Kinister on one of his vids says that not all tables (especialliy the cheap ones) have there diamonds measured inaccuratley. Shooting from one diamond to another with innacurate measurements can fool you into thinking your stroke is crooked.

In most cases however, your stroke is crooked....LOL
Welcome to the club. RJ

ps. Best of luck.

 

[Bruce S. de Lis]

Why not drill with an object ball and keep your cue on the table after firing the shot and see if the CB comes straight back?

Barbara

Also try using a STRIPPEDE BALL for a Q Ball, as it Give Great Feedback post Stroke.....

 

[henho]

Not having the ball return to your tip on the drill when applying draw may not mean that your stroke is at fault. When the ball is spinning and grips the cushion, it may have more friction on slightly one side or the other (depending on the cloth, dirt on ball, etc.) and spin back to the side. When you roll the ball this is not as big a factor. The shot can be difficult if you apply enough follow to spin into the cushion as well.

 

[LastTwo]

The draw stroke is a different stroke than a center ball stroke. You may have imperfections in your draw stroke that you don't have in your center ball stroke.

 

[pinkisntwell]

The draw stroke is a different stroke than a center ball stroke. You may have imperfections in your draw stroke that you don't have in your center ball stroke.

Well, I think it's mostly that the draw stroke has less room for error.

Has anyone tried the shot I diagrammed? Can anyone do it consistenly?

 

[BRKNRUN]

Well, I think it's mostly that the draw stroke has less room for error.

Has anyone tried the shot I diagrammed? Can anyone do it consistenly?

It can be done consistently...You can also to it with a "drag draw" so that the CB is just starting to pick up forward roll right before it hits the rail....

I do think that the hardest to be consistent on is the hard draw...Partially because the ball will pinch into the rail at firm speed...

 

[LastTwo]

Well, I think it's mostly that the draw stroke has less room for error.

Has anyone tried the shot I diagrammed? Can anyone do it consistenly?

I think you are talking about the drag-draw shot. There is a difference between that and a regular draw shot. On the drag shot the cueball is sliding with backspin, and before it reaches it's targetted destination, the draw wears off and it starts rolling. I think that on cloth that grips more (like someone else said) it can have a negative effect on the shot and leave you little room for error. On a regular draw shot the cueball is sliding with backspin the whole way before it reaches it's target so it can only go straight. I doubt you were actually drawing the ball, because to hit the opposite end of the table with draw still on the cueball you would have to hit it fairly hard.

 

[Williebetmore]

.

But I was trying it using draw and I can't do it. The cue ball gets a big amount of side spin when played that way. Has anyone here spent time in this shot using draw? Does it get better with practice or is it a necessary evil?

Pink-man,
Wow, you have inadvertently stumbled on the "hidden secret" of pool. Pool, at the highest level, requires JUST AS MUCH precision as snooker. Take a Jim Rempe training ball, place the little black spot low in the center, and hit your draw shot (HARD, so any stroke error will be magnified, hard enough for the cue ball to go 4 cushions). After each shot, check the chalk mark in comparison to your target. What you will see is that even a SLIGHT off center hit (and I mean SLIGHT - anything other than PERFECT) will result in the cue ball going left or right on its return. Do this 10 or 20 times a day with center ball, draw, and follow (all with hard stroke) until you can achieve true precision - the top pool players can do this, the rest can't. Good luck, your pool game will definitely improve.

 

[pinkisntwell]

Do this 10 or 20 times a day with center ball, draw, and follow (all with hard stroke) until you can achieve true precision - the top pool players can do this, the rest can't. Good luck, your pool game will definitely improve.

I will certainly try that. What I'm thinking is, should I try it like on the pool table I diagrammed or use an object ball as well? The thought is that on a real game of pool I wouldn't be aiming at the rail (well, most of the time) but mostly at balls.

 

[Williebetmore]

I will certainly try that. What I'm thinking is, should I try it like on the pool table I diagrammed or use an object ball as well? The thought is that on a real game of pool I wouldn't be aiming at the rail (well, most of the time) but mostly at balls.

Pink,
The problem with any method is that you may not be measuring what you think you are measuring. If you are aiming at a ball or a cushion, then the rebound path may indicate either a "mis-hit" where unintended English is applied or a "mis-setup" where the initial path of the cue-ball is not perpendicular to your target.

The way I solve this is to have a laser line between the head rail and foot rail; then shoot the cue ball along this line (aligning the dot on the training cue ball with the laser line), then carefully inspect the chalk mark to make sure the hit is EXACT. To really magnify the errors you must strike the ball with 4-cushion speed (not really a snooker stroke). I do not use a ball as a target - the purpose of the drill is to hone a precise hit - an object ball just muddies the analysis of your stroke. If you are lined up correctly using the laser line, then the path of the cue ball off the cushion definitely gives you more information.

A couple of interesting (to me) anecdotes that I've relayed previously relate to this. A leading teaching pro was asked by Steve Davis to help him with his stroke at Steve's home. The pro asked Steve to warm up (on the snooker table). Steve basically placed the cue ball on the head spot, then for FIFTEEN MINUTES just hit the cue to the foot rail and back to the tip of his cue (very high level of success). He told the pro that this was the way he warmed up for his matches, figuring that if he can hit the ball straight with the necessary high level of precision, then the rest of his game would be no problem. Many lower level players would be well advised to follow this example (hey, its boring and difficult, but precision is your friend).

I also have a friend who took lessons from Alex Higgins. He was told to look at the cue ball last before stroking because once you are lined up, an accurate, precise hit is absolutely essential. While pool players generally look at the object ball last, Alex told my friend that most top snooker players look at the cue ball last for this reason (I know Bob Jewett does not believe this, but my friend is sticking by his story - Pink-man do you know anything about this?).

 

[Fred Agnir]

I'm talking about the well known way to check if your stroke is straight. I think that most players here will find that they can do this pretty easily, especially if they put a chalk cube on the opposite end so they have something to aim at.

But I was trying it using draw and I can't do it. The cue ball gets a big amount of side spin when played that way. Has anyone here spent time in this shot using draw? Does it get better with practice or is it a necessary evil?

I'll say most of us will get the same results. Is it a necessary evil? It's an evil I have to live with and for the most part, it won't kill me.

When you normally do this shot, do you hit with follow?

Hitting with draw will add a touch more elevation. If you're hitting softly, and you put a hint of side, the cueball will swerve pretty quickly. This shot is so sensitive to any lateral movement on the cueball, that it will seem like a big deal if you can't make it go back and forth.

See what happens if you hit with a normal stroke rather than slow (I'm assuming slowly). My guess is that with your slower speed, you're just slightly losing the straightness of your stroke.

Fred

 

[DrCue'sProtege]

Pink,
i have tried practicing the shot you originally talked about. it takes me a few times before i get zeroed in, but i eventually get pretty good with it.

beleive it or not, i think the "Exact" center ball hit for this drill might be the most difficult of the three (follow, center, low).

DCP

 

[pinkisntwell]

I also have a friend who took lessons from Alex Higgins. He was told to look at the cue ball last before stroking because once you are lined up, an accurate, precise hit is absolutely essential. While pool players generally look at the object ball last, Alex told my friend that most top snooker players look at the cue ball last for this reason (I know Bob Jewett does not believe this, but my friend is sticking by his story - Pink-man do you know anything about this?).

Well, I know that Frank Callan suggests looking at the object ball when pulling the trigger . This is why some (and not all - this is a common misconception) snooker pros pause on the backswing, to have time to focus on the object ball.

I have seen advice from another coach on worldsnooker.com (I think it got removed when they changed the site - can't find it now) who said that it changes from a snooker pro to another.

Ronnie O' Sullivan says that you should look at the object ball.

When I play pool (even though I suck severely) I noticed that I was mostly looking at both (when it's possible - short shots) or lining up and looking at the cue ball last to make sure I don't put too much side spin on the shot.

I read how some (most?) coaches and players (check out Allison Fisher's site too) suggest looking at the object ball last. Whenever I try it my game never gains anything. I find it awkward stroking without looking what your cue is doing. It's like playing guitar without looking at the fretboard. Or driving without looking at the road. That's what I think at least.

 

[pinkisntwell]

I'll say most of us will get the same results. Is it a necessary evil? It's an evil I have to live with and for the most part, it won't kill me.

When you normally do this shot, do you hit with follow?

Hitting with draw will add a touch more elevation. If you're hitting softly, and you put a hint of side, the cueball will swerve pretty quickly. This shot is so sensitive to any lateral movement on the cueball, that it will seem like a big deal if you can't make it go back and forth.

See what happens if you hit with a normal stroke rather than slow (I'm assuming slowly). My guess is that with your slower speed, you're just slightly losing the straightness of your stroke.

Fred

I think that the best approach when a shot like this comes up in a game is not to hit too low and use a firm stroke.

I find that I miss quite a few shots because of this though. I used to take your approach and think that we're only humans and can't stroke perfectly straight (plus our equipment is made and used by humans so it isn't perfect) but there are shots where I think I miss because of this side spin. I'm almost afraid of them lately.

Slower speed does give the cue ball more spin.

 

[Bob Jewett]

...
But I was trying it using draw and I can't do it. The cue ball gets a big amount of side spin when played that way. Has anyone here spent time in this shot using draw? Does it get better with practice or is it a necessary evil?

You are getting side spin because you hit the cue ball on the side. You hit the cue ball on the side either because you can't accurately see the center or because your stroke is crooked.

Draw has been known for a long to make the "over the spots" drill, as it's called on an English table, far more difficult. You are encountering that well-known difficulty. The main problem is that draw magnifies the apparent amount of side spin. In fact, the amount of side spin doesn't change -- that's determined by how far from the center you hit the cue ball -- but the draw slows the cue ball down while the side spin remains on the ball. This means that you will have a lot more side spin in relation to the forward speed of the ball.

You can do the shot with draw, but it's far more difficult. As someone else already mentioned, it's best to use a striped ball (or one of those $30 cue balls) so that you can see the spin before the "cue" ball gets to the cushion.

Work up to the full shot. Begin with shooting sideways, and try to get the ball back to your tip with only the stripe contacting the cloth. It's OK if the stripe wobbles a little as long as the white doesn't touch the cloth. (Note that the top of the ball is the same color as the bottom.)

 

[TheBook]

There is a drill from some billiard book that I used to do.

You set the cueball on the head spot and shoot at a object ball that is frozen to the long rail directly across from the head spot. The object is to have the cueball come back across the head spot and to the opposite diamond on the other long rail. You do this ten times and keep score. The diamond is zero and you divide the space between the diamonds to the right and left into 5 increments. The space closest to the diamond would be 1 and then the next 2 and etc. If the cue ball hits on 1 you add 1 to you running total. The object is to get the lowest score. When you can consistantly get zero you are in stroke and shooting center to center. You then advance to putting the object ball on the short rail at the foot of the table and do the same thing.

This may help.