UPA Contract Fiasco

G

Grady

Pro Player
I hate being the one who has to do this!!!!!

If anyone noticed I’ve tried to be really low key for some time now. I waited a few days when this came up to see if anybody would properly address it but since they have not I guess I have to tackle it. In Las Vegas over the last week, Charlie Williams and the UPA presented their membership that were present with a contract. I have been told by a reliable source that he bullied some of the guys by threatening to not allow them to play in Cardiff if they didn’t sign. Unfortunately many of the players did sign it, several without even reading it. Here are excerpts from the contract:

Player agrees to compete only in those events that are sanctioned or recognized by the UPA unless the UPA grants a waiver allowing the player to participate in non-sanctioned or non-UPA recognized events. A waiver will only be granted by showing good cause and approval by the UPA board of directors .

Media and marketing rights: For and in consideration of the mutual covenants and promises herein contained and in consideration of the UPA’s grant of playing privileges to player, Player hereby grants to the UPA the right and permission to copyright, use, reuse, publish, broadcast, republish and rebroadcast the Player’s appearances in billiard tournaments and in tour events. Player further grants to the UPA the use of his name, signature and likeness in conjunction with said billiard tournaments, tour events and for the purpose of raising funds, which are directed to the promotion of the UPA and it’s stated function. This grant includes on air broadcast of said events by network, independent or cable television stations or their affiliates, internet productions, home video reproductions, promotional clips, or other forms of broadcast of billiard tournaments or tour events, as well as marketing of tour event literature to include player pictures and tour posters. Player agrees that all media rights and revenues there from belong to, and are the sole property of the UPA. Player waives any right to inspect or approve such media product, programming and production, regardless of use.

I believe Charlie Williams has abused his position horribly and yes I can certainly prove it. This group, the UPA, is every bit as bad, if not worse than it’s predecessors. I don’t think I can help any player stupid enough to sign this contract. Jesus Christ, guys, isn’t it about time to display some intelligence and gumption?

Listen to me carefully, all you young talented players especially. It should, as it does me, infuriate you to have certain people and organizations making plans and decisions behind closed doors that greatly affect how we make a living. I view the possible marriage of the UPA, the BCA, etc. as the worst tragedy that could befall our great sport.

Later I have some really good ideas for what an organization should be: A credit union, pension benefits and insurance packages. This would be a group that treats the Cliff Joyners, the Eric Durbins, the Tony Watsons and yes the Grady Mathews’ of the pool world fairly. We have a sport that could rival football or basketball or anything else but first we must jettison the current infrastructure and wannabe wise guys and terrible associations. Please don’t leave me alone in this very important fight. Grady
 
Gee Grady why would you not like the contract? I am sure that CW signed it? And everybody trusts Charlie. But since I am just a peon I had my wife, the Esquire, read it. Okay, now that she has stopped laughing she said, in her infinite wisdom if she was advising me, she would tell me not to sign it. It provides nothing for me and everything for the UPA. It takes any chance I have to make money on my name away from me for life. Such a deal.

I sure hope any UPA player will pay a lawyer a few bucks to read the contract before he signs his future away.

The UPA is giving the player nothing and taking everything.

Let's see. What if a player like Archer signs a photo. The UPA takes it, runs off a few thousand and sells them for $10 each. The UPA can keep all the money and not even thank Archer.

And how about if a sponsor wants his player to play at a tournament to represent the sponsor and the UPA doesn't like that tournament? Can the player be assured he will get a waiver from the UPA?

And for getting nothing the players get to pay yearly dues, plus entry fees. And is there a list of events that the UPA will sanction? The signer might have to go into retirement for lack of events to play in.

But maybe I am missing something here. What is it that the player does get? And who are the players who did sign the contract? I hope they realize that their signature on anything is legally binding. The time to seek legal consultation/advice is before you sign a contract, not after. Jake
 
Needless to say, the UPA contract was a big topic in Vegas. I was told by a UPA representative that the UPA contract is identical to the WPBA contract.

After some research. I have found out that he was right. The UPA contract is completely identical to the WPBA contract.

There is, of course, the issue of whether the WPBA is providing a service to their players to warrant such a contract.

Mike
 
Howdy Grady,
One doesn`t have to worry about signing this contract because UPA is not going to be there much longer.I smell some trouble brewing with in it`s ranks.Cheers
Vagabond
 
AzHousePro said:


There is, of course, the issue of whether the WPBA is providing a service to their players to warrant such a contract.

Mike
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you have to start somewhere. in order for pool to take that first step in getting any kind of financial support, it must present their potential backers with a nicely wrapped package. CW has to get all the players in line. so CW is merely taking the first steps.

consider this,,,,cw goes to,,,,say coca cola(yeah right:P) and says we have something to offer and it may be worth your while to back us. when coca cola replies, "what is your product", cw cannot show them a bunch of shmoes who hustle and look out for themselves...who aren't even on the same page, AS A VIABLE GROUP. coca cola would laugh cw out of town.

the wpba teeters on success, but that is far better than what the men have done. the wpba had to present a package before anything else was done. distribution of wealth comes when there is wealth to distribute.

grady has posted this here and at rsb, and like his past posts, much of this is out of spite and ill will. as far as i could read from his last few sentences, he's just blowing smoke and painting a picture of wine and roses, like a politician promising no taxes and peace on earth.

if the past has taught us anything, it is that pool's old feeble ways won't work. CW's greatest challenge lies in convincing the players......and deeper pockets.
 
Sounds like a bad deal for the players.Although I would like to read the entire contract before forming a solid opinion.I know Charlie Williams posts here.I would like to hear CW`s take on Grady`s post.Perhaps CW could explain to us how this contract is beneficial to the players.I for one would like to hear all the facts.

George Comerford
Providence,R.I.
 
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George said:
Sounds like a bad deal for the players.Although I would like to read the entire contract before forming a solid opinion.I know Charlie Williams posts here.I would like to hear CW`s take on Grady`s post.Perhaps CW could explain to us how this contract is beneficial to the players.I for one would like to hear all the facts.

George Comerford
Providence,R.I.
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i doubt if we will see CW posting replies. he never does. but i think one can assume certain things since we now know that the upa contract duplicates the wpba's.
 
Grady

You are correct in your suspicions. I wouldn't sign that either. For those that do not know, I have been very outspoken for many years regarding the sale of the MPBT to the tobacco world. My tirades have graced RSB for years, and at one point had folks threatening to sue me to keep my mouth shut. For years, players have been pushed around and taken advantage of. "Exclusivity" clauses have no place in pool. Players must have the freedom to market themselves, as well as the products of their sponsor. The "Camel Deal" was quite similar, and virtually asked players not to advertise products from their sponsors without the approval of the tour sponsor. Deals like this not only kill player morale, it affects the entire industry. I have no reason not to trust Charlie Williams, and believe me, a lawyer wrote this contract, not him. The lawyer is supposedly looking out for the tour's best interests (BTW, when was the last time lawyers had intentions that were not monetarily based?). I respect Grady's cautiousness, because we both have lived to tell about the days of The Don (Don Mackey) and how the MPBT board jerked everybody around and poorly invested money and trust in the wrong places. All we have to do is look over to the WPBA and see how to run a successful tour. That is my advice to Charlie. All the while as the men's tour has gone through troubles, the WPBA has survived and pushed forward. The level of play has increased dramatically over the past 10 years, the exposure for women's pool has shot through the roof, and the men continue to sit around with their butts in their hands wondering what happened.
 
Blackjack said:
Grady

,,,,, All we have to do is look over to the WPBA and see how to run a successful tour. That is my advice to Charlie. All the while as the men's tour has gone through troubles,,,,,
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david,,,,according to mike, the upa contract duplicates the wpba contract. sounds to me like the upa is trying the wpba route.

i am told the wpba contract is very strict and very tight. the women see first, the value of sacraficing for the greater good. here is where the men lose sight.

a bunch of us got a chance to talk to CW for 3 hours when he passed through nyc on his way to boston for pool school. i'd have to say, he didn't sound like a bullsh*tter,,,, your "typical" pool hall junkie. and i've heard a lot of 'em. he understands he will face opposition from those used to the old ways....the independent promoters, the players. all in all, my image of him was quite different from what i've read.

but what can one gather from a first meeting.
 
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Blackjack, I fully agree that the players should be allowed to market themselves if they choose and explore other options. I don't think I would be too keen on selling my soul to the UPA. My only question is on your quote below...
All we have to do is look over to the WPBA and see how to run a successful tour. That is my advice to Charlie. All the while as the men's tour has gone through troubles, the WPBA has survived and pushed forward.
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I read this after reading Mike's post which says...
Needless to say, the UPA contract was a big topic in Vegas. I was told by a UPA representative that the UPA contract is identical to the WPBA contract.

After some research. I have found out that he was right. The UPA contract is completely identical to the WPBA contract.
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So what gives. It appears that Charlie has been looking over at the WPBA and has a contract that is identical. What else do we suggest Charlie do?

I am not a fan of Charlies, by any means, but he was the one with initiative. I do not see any of the people on these internet boards doing anything. This includes all of those " who have lived tell about the days of The Don". It appears that is all you guys have done, just talk about the past. It would mean more if those of you who have lived through such a time, to take your lessons learned and do something for the good.

I wish I had the chance to meet Grady and get to know him, but all I know of him is the guy who comes on the internet boards and bashes everyone. I still do not remember a thread that he initiated to congratulate, give praise or acknowledge another promoters work. I have heard posts about his tournaments and how much more wonderful they are for the player (the gambling player) but nothing else. Plenty of rage against Don Mackey, Pat Fleming, the WPA, etc.

It pains me to say this, but here goes...At least Charlie is doing something and not just sitting around talking about it.

eg8r
 
eg8r said:
Blackjack, I fully agree that the players should be allowed to market themselves if they choose and explore other options. I don't think I would be too keen on selling my soul to the UPAeg8r
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other than a handfull of players, no one in pool has anything to give up. players DON'T market themselves and don't look at their options. essentially, they have no options,,,they have nothing.

this is the position pool players find themselves in today.....there is no future. so just exactly what is it, in this bleak situattion, are they being asked to forego. the option seems to be, 1...continue on as pool has for the past eon, 2...at least try something different that, ok, might require some cooperation and sacrafice.

i'd be interested to know what jeanette and ewa have to give up to the wpba......maybe nothing. who knows.

when i talked to CW, there was no talk of pie in the sky, like grady has above. cw was very practical. "for men's pool to succeed, there will NEED to be unification . every sport has it. if not me(cw) then someone else." the challenge for CW will be to convince the players to sacrafice what PALTRY little they have now for something possibly better.

and you'll always have people like grady trying to hold on to his meager nothings because that is what he has had to do his whole life. grady is a small fish with small ideas....like the rest of pool.
 
I too want to know what the player gets for signing that contract. How are they going to make a living if they can't market themselves?

There is probably alot more to this that I don't understand, especially considering the fact that this contract supposedly mirrors the WPBA contract. How does Jeanette Lee do all the marketing she does and make any money, or does she get some portion from the WPBA???

I'm no lawyer, so I can't judge anything. All I know is that I see alot of "waives" and "grants" in those excerpts. What are the benefits to a player?
 
If the contract between the UPA and WPBA are the same, then I retract my statement.

Furthermore, this contract says they own your name. I need my name, as does everybody. I write books, articles, etc. Would I need UPA approval to continue submitting articles to this site? That's ridiculous. Would I need UPA approval to release my books?

In response to Ed, you should meet Grady before you form an opinion. Grady is a gentleman, and a pool player. He cares a lot about this sport and its future. That is more than I can say about 99% of the suits that run this industry.

Is the UPA still boycotting the US Open? That was how they Killed the BCA 14.1 Open back in the 1980's. Remember, Grady? They threatened all of us, and put the BCA tournament off limits.

Grady, you know that I have supported your ideas for a long time. Those of us (who care about more than just ourselves)should band together and create a tour for players by players. Call me if you ANYTHING. I will help out in any way that you need me to.

Understand, that when Don Mackey turned his back on the billiard industry and searched outside our industry for a major tour sponsor, it was not done without a price. Don Mackey did not pay that price. The players of the MPBT paid the price as our tour disappeared (as I said it would - BEFORE the tobacco deal was signed). Our leadership (MPBT Prez Allen Hopkins) abandoned the players he promised to represent. Allen couldn't give two craps less now, he has his own deal, and I hope it makes him happy. My criticism is - that you finish what you start. The players were left with little or no representation. Somehow, by the looks of the UPA contract, they have expected us to get used to that.

The players are the ones that sell out the rooms for the tournament finals. Not the sponsors, not the tour officials, its the players. People come to watch the players, not the suits. Why are the suits getting the cash, and not the players? The players are the peope that bring excitement to the game. Compensate them for something - anything. Prize money just doesn't cut it.
 
I would venture to bet if this contract is the same as the one the WPBA gives their players then before Lee, Corr, Allison, Ewa, etc signed theirs they showed it to their attorney and the attorney made significant changes to it. And of course the WPBA does offer the women the opportunity to appear on TV. If not playing then as a guest. Jake
 
I received a call from one of the top WPBA players tonight about the contracts. She has seen both contracts and also knows that they are identical.

Without going into too many details, the section in question states...

"Player hereby grants to the UPA the right and permission to copyright, use, reuse, publish, broadcast, republish and rebroadcast the Players's appearances in billiard tournaments and in tour events. Player further grants to the UPA the use of his name, signature and likeness in conjunction with said billiard tournaments, tour events and for the purpose of raising funds which are directed to the promotion of the UPA and its stated function"

The player who called pointed out that this only covers UPA/WPBA events. This does not stop the player from going out and obtaining sponsorship on their own. It simply gives the UPA/WPBA the right to copyright and use the players performance at that event.

How this would affect the male players and their deals with Accu-Stats is an interesting question.


For what it is worth, I have both contracts in front of me and they are both completely identical.

Mike
 
Hi Mike, I wonder if any of the Pros, male or female, who did sign the contract took it to an attorney to look it over before they signed it. And if they did what advice did they receive. I have signed a few real estate contracts over the years and they are pretty much boilerplate contracts but I would still run them before my attorney before I signed on the dotted line. And many times he would cross out stuff and add stuff and save me money. This contract just seems too general to me. But of course it is meaningless if the Pro does not become a celebrity. I think at this point the only reason the UPA wants the men to sign up is so that the UPA can force a player not to participate in any tournament that the UPA does not like. Like the US Open last year. And what would the penalty be if a player does play in a non UPA sanctioned tournament? And if the player decides to drop out of the UPA will that make the contract null and void? Or will the UPA still have control of any profits the player might make? And of course there still is the question as what the Player receives in return? By the way, how many UPA tournaments are scheduled for the rest of the year? Jake
 
Jake, I believe that in the whole of 2003 there is only one UPA tournament and that is in Tampa in December (I won't be there but I will be at Grady's tournament). That is what you get for your membership. Oh, and also, you will be permitted to participate in some of the open events. Of course I could do the same without a UPA membership.

Comparison of the contracts is totally worthless unless you consider the potential consequences on the income of a player. Being barred from competing in major open events like Derby City, U. S. Open, International Challenge of Champions, all the Joss and Viking events, Kennedy's events and many more would affect the men far more than it now might affect the women.

The women's group is run by elected players who would probably permit participation in other events. They have no axe to grind with the independent promoters. We all know that Charlie the Dragon would not hesitate to prohibit his members from playing in other events. He has already tried to do it but he didn't have the signed contract yet.

Oh, but it's the same contract so what do I know?
What's good for the goose is good for the gander or is there a difference between men's and women's professional pool?
Ken in CT
 
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Grady is having a tournament in Tampa in December? I'll have to make sure I mark my calendar so I can go see that one. As far as the UPA goes, only time will tell what happens there. I can't find the website anymore so I don't know what their schedule is. I don't even know if the Predator or Patriot Cups have anything to do with the UPA. Now that I think about it, does CW have to get permission from the UPA to run these events? Will people be prevented from playing in the Joss Tour? And TK's tournaments? Will TK be forced to give up his tournament? Fat Chance of that happening. Oh well, it is interesting to think of all the ramifications. Jake
 
It is interesting to see all of the responses on this subject, but as usual it seems to be split in decision. I would like to add my two cents and say that at least Charlie Williams is attempting to pull together a pro mens tour which is more than I can say for many others. In many pool halls you hear the same ole criticism, BUT there are no solutions. I don't know either Grady or Charlie, but if everyone is so tired of CWs approach, form another. I am sure there are many players out there that would love one tour. I personally would devote my time to help in any way possible and I am a woman. It saddens me (as a pool player) to see that the mens tour has basically dimished as it could be something great with very little effort.

The exposure through your profession IS your marketing the majority of the time. Without seeing Jeanette Lee or Allison Fisher on television playing pool, who would know them. They make their name by the sport and any outside sponsorships are bonus cash.

As far as a waiver or permission being granted for outside events, promotions, etc.....it seems perfectly exceptable to require this....the last thing you want is to have a pro pool player promoting something distasteful and making the sport look bad. It seems that in pretty much any profession you cannot "moonlight" without permission from your boss, so why should this be any different.

Thanks for letting me add my thoughts.....
 
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