UPA Sanctioning - Q&A

[UPA President]

Frank, as you can see this looks like you gave answers of convenience and not hard facts. As "The Mens Governing Body of Pool" You / the UPA is held to much higher standards.

The big problem here from my point of view is that I believe most of the players who are members of the UPA think that UPA Sanctioning means Guaranteed Money and now they know it's not true and the same with everyone else that believed this.

Frank, please give me and the AZ community something so we can trust that your statements are true and accurate.

In the meantime I will take you at your word to be the truth but we need some actual facts. Board meeting minutes, players who voted, the vote count, the actual date of the change, a dated letter to the promoters stating this change. Anything with some meat on it.

Mj

1. Mr. Janis I believe that the simple truth is always an answer of conveniance. Was there a PR? No. That was in fact an easy answer for me. If you had demonstrated that Mr. Williams in fact sent out a PR that I was unaware of, I would then simply state the fact that I was unaware and I stood corrected. Surely one could understand that I did not remember a PR six years ago.

2. Concerning a belief of "guaranteed prize" fund it seems to me that the players on tour and the promoters were the only ones who were in the know. I don't say this to UPA credit.

On another note the truth is that I personally checked out in forum interest when I was shown a post that stated that, Scott Taylor, with Fury Cues was my uncle. Perhaps had I posted the simple conveniant truth this was absurd it would have taken away the ability for people to reply. This is why the UPA has had a no "forum policy" for many years. I hope you understand.

3. Thank you for taking me at my word. I have no reason to lie to you. I hope that anyone on this forum does not think that I am here to tell you about all the perfect things we've done throughout the years. However I can tell that we have evolved and changed for the better by far.

4. In regards to minutes and board meetings and player votes, etc. You give us way too much credit. The proof is in the pudding. Did we "guarantee" the prize fund of the last event?

Hope this helps...

 

[UPA President]

Also in regards to our players believing that the UPA "guarantees" payouts please note that not one player has contacted us requesting funds or requesting that the UPA pay the players that are owed.

However, I will tell you that I keep a record on file and if ever the UPA is the position to do so it will compensate all players that are owed money. Though we are not obligated (due to player understanding/agreement), I believe it would be a great gesture.

Mr Janis, may I pose a question to you? In your opinion why do you believe that the UPA was never contacted by anyone on this forum in regards to our policy of prize fund payout? Instead the option is simply to view the UPA negatively.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

 

[MikeJanis]

Frank, you have satisfied all my curiosities. I am sure this took up much of your private time and I thank your for your direct answers and time.

Good luck with everything on your plate and I expect to see many great things from the UPA with you as their leader in the futre.

It's 5:16 am here in GA and my wife is just getting up for work today which is my cue to go to sleep.

Thanks again,

Mj

 

[MikeJanis]

Mr Janis, may I pose a question to you? In your opinion why do you believe that the UPA was never contacted by anyone on this forum in regards to our policy of prize fund payout? Instead the option is simply to view the UPA negatively.

Your thoughts are appreciated.

Frank simply put. The UPA web site states "GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS" and that is exactly what is expected. Especially from the UPA who has been known in the past to demand that the GUARANTEED PRIZE FUND be paid in advance by the promoters. Also, because the UPA is "The Governing Body Of Men's Professional Pool".

Due to the facts that there was a change in mandate and not everyone knew about this and the contridiction on the UPA web site about GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS and then NOT having the guarantee on the prize funds. This alone created hostility and anger by some.

Frank, honestly based on these facts the negativity is deserved. When you state GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS on your web site for the largest men's professional tour in the USA this is exactly what is expected. The UPA let us, the fans down by not doing exactly as stated. Yes Frank, even I am a huge fan of what the uPA has championed over the years. The UPA appeared to create a benchmark for all others that follow in the UPA's footsteps. Now even that dream is diminishing.

This is why in an earlier post I suggested that you remove the words GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS from your website.

Also note that the negativity is not directed at you but at the UPA due to the failure of non-payment of funds in a UPA sanctioned event which according to the current UPA web site states that the funds are guaranteed.

Honestly Frank, it's a huge disapointment that the UPA allowed this to happen, not just this time but on 3 occasions.


Mj

 

[RunoutalloverU]

God bless Mike Janis, atleast someone that is the head of a tour doesn't sound like a politican, but rather a straight shooter who has pool players best interests in mind.

 

[JAM]

Hi, Frank! So good to see you posting on AzBilliards.

1. What year did you become president of the UPA? The reason I am asking is that I think -- and I may be wrong -- that you were not president of the UPA when that Canadian tournament, referenced earlier, was canceled.

2. Is there any way that you could work with the BCA and maybe use the BCA's ranking system?

3. If this is unacceptable, can players demand that BCA guarantee all funds to be held in a separate account for all future tournaments?

4. How have you been doing? I saw a picture of you with a pretty lady. You look great, as always!

JAM a/k/a Jennie

 

[UPA President]

Frank simply put. The UPA web site states "GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS" and that is exactly what is expected. Especially from the UPA who has been known in the past to demand that the GUARANTEED PRIZE FUND be paid in advance by the promoters. Also, because the UPA is "The Governing Body Of Men's Professional Pool".

Due to the facts that there was a change in mandate and not everyone knew about this and the contridiction on the UPA web site about GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS and then NOT having the guarantee on the prize funds.

Frank, honestly based on these facts the negativity is deserved. When you state GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS on your web site for the largets professional tour in the USA this is exactly what is expected. The UPA let us, the fans down by not doing exactly as stated.

This is why in an earlier post I suggested that you remove the words GUARANTEED PRIZE FUNDS from your website.

Also note that the negativity is not directed at you but at the UPA due to the failure of non-payment of funds in a UPA sanctioned event which according to the current UPA web site states that the funds are guaranteed.

Honestly Frank, it's a huge disapointment that the UPA allowed this to happen, not just this time but on 3 occasions.


Mj

Mr. Janis the UPA website does not state that we guarantee prize fund. It states that the guaranteeing of prize fund is at the forefront of our agenda. In this is indeed true with every event. Should we also remove the statement concerning that is our goal to provide above board leadership? I do not believe that any of the 3 presidents (Charlie Williams, Robert Lipson, Frank Alvarez) of the UPA would claim that we've ever fully attained this. However I can assure you that this was and is our goal.

I understand your position and feeling on the matter, however I do believe that our stated agendas are accurate and true.

Respectfully...

 

[MikeJanis]

Im just going to get me a bowl of ice cream and watch it melt.

Fast Lenny, whatever happened to that ice cream ?

Have you been following along ?

 

[UPA President]

Hi, Frank! So good to see you posting on AzBilliards.

1. What year did you become president of the UPA? The reason I am asking is that I think -- and I may be wrong -- that you were not president of the UPA when that Canadian tournament, referenced earlier, was canceled.

2. Is there any way that you could work with the BCA and maybe use the BCA's ranking system?

3. If this is unacceptable, can players demand that BCA guarantee all funds to be held in a separate account for all future tournaments?

4. How have you been doing? I saw a picture of you with a pretty lady. You look great, as always!

JAM a/k/a Jennie

Hello Stranger, I hope and trust that things are well with you.

1. I have been president for about a year and half now. Mr. Lipson was president during the CA situation.

2. The ranking system actually goes way beyond points and values, etc. You see, it's a matter of determining what sanctioning guidelines are. These guidelines were set by the players as it affected their lives first and foremost. In the new system players have lost say in rules, formats, addeds money, etc. I do not believe that the BCA realized these issues and we were not granted the ability to even address them. Essentialy we woke up to a phone call and a press release. To answer your question, if players decide that they do not want to govern themselves and govern their own tour, then 'yes' the bca points list is fine.

3. Technically, with this change, the players can demand nothing. Also they are very aware that it could change next week, or next month, or six months from now. If they woke up to a world where all they had was take from them, there is no telling what the future holds.

4. Thank you for the compliment. That is Alejandra. I pretty much had to learn Spanish within 3 years in order to date her.

I hope my answers help...

 

[MikeJanis]

Mr. Janis the UPA website does not state that we guarantee prize fund. It states that the guaranteeing of prize fund is at the forefront of our agenda. In this is indeed true with every event. Should we also remove the statement concerning that is our goal to provide above board leadership? I do not believe that any of the 3 presidents (Charlie Williams, Robert Lipson, Frank Alvarez) of the UPA would claim that we've ever fully attained this. However I can assure you that this was and is our goal.

I understand your position and feeling on the matter, however I do believe that our stated agendas are accurate and true.

Respectfully...

Ahh, and there lies the explanation of the difference between agenda and what is actually being done.

a�gen�da �� (-jnd) KEY �

NOUN:
pl. a�gen�das
A list or program of things to be done or considered:

Frank, as you can see, even I misread the intent of the agenda. I should know better. I stand corrected.

I apologize for any misconception.

PS.. Why didn't you point that out earlier ? It would have saved us both a lot of time typing.

Additionally, why cant the UPA guarantee the prize funds. Regional tours such as the Viking, Tiger and Joss have guaranteed the added monies (even in our larger events like $25,000 added ones) for many years.

Why do you think the UPA is so far behind in the standards for guaranteed monies in events?

Mj

 

[UPA President]

Hi, Frank! So good to see you posting on AzBilliards.

1. What year did you become president of the UPA? The reason I am asking is that I think -- and I may be wrong -- that you were not president of the UPA when that Canadian tournament, referenced earlier, was canceled.

2. Is there any way that you could work with the BCA and maybe use the BCA's ranking system?

3. If this is unacceptable, can players demand that BCA guarantee all funds to be held in a separate account for all future tournaments?

4. How have you been doing? I saw a picture of you with a pretty lady. You look great, as always!

JAM a/k/a Jennie

Another very important note. If the players are the direct owners of the UPA and you just took away the UPA's greatest asset then you have further damaged the player's actual business. That business being the U.S. Tour.

Also note that the stated agenda of the BCA is not to promote men's professional pool or a U.S. Tour, but to promote the trade aspect of our industry (very important). The function of the UPA is to keep the players best interest at heart. These are two connected goals, however very very different on many levels.

Hope this helps...

 

[UPA President]

Ahh, and there lies the explanation of the difference between agenda and what is actually being done.

Frank, as you can see, even I misread the intent of the agenda. I should know better. I stand corrected.

I apologize for any misconception.

PS.. Why didn't you point that out earlier ? It would have saved us both a lot of time typing.

Mj

You are a very intelligent man, no doubt we will both stand corrected in the future.

 

[JAM]

Hello Stranger, I hope and trust that things are well with you.

Yep, things are dandy. Quit smoking cigarettes this past February. Keith and I are planning on hitting the tournaments later this year. We haven't been to a pool tournament since IPT in Reno, September 2006.

I enjoy being at home with my dog Sammy and family. I do not like living out of a suitcase. There's no place like home, as they say!

1. I have been president for about a year and half now. Mr. Lipson was president during the CA situation.

That is what I thought. To my eye, reading about the UPA in the pool print media, it looks like everyone jumped ship, leaving a lot of problems for you to deal with.

That said, you are a MUCH BETTER president than the other two. One has no personality and does everything behind a curtain, and the other one seems to have jumped ship and taken his show on the road overseas. You don't have to reply to this, as I know you probably feel differently!

2....I do not believe that the BCA realized these issues and we were not granted the ability to even address them. Essentialy we woke up to a phone call and a press release. To answer your question, if players decide that they do not want to govern themselves and govern their own tour, then 'yes' the bca points list is fine.

I think it stinks the way the BCA handled this. You should have, of course, been consulted. For that very reason, I'm on the side of the UPA, if you can believe that!

3. Technically, with this change, the players can demand nothing. Also they are very aware that it could change next week, or next month, or six months from now. If they woke up to a world where all they had was take from them, there is no telling what the future holds.

I know you have the players' best interests at heart. This is a terrible situation. What in the hell has the BCA done for American players lately? Not a damn thing. That BCA invitational tournament is a joke, the payouts, et cetera.

BTW, I love the new-and-improved UPA website. WOW!

4. Thank you for the compliment. That is Alejandra. I pretty much had to learn Spanish within 3 years in order to date her.

You guys make a nice couple. I have come to learn, Frank, that there is more to life than pool. It is such a tough racket. If you can hang in there, then God bless you and the UPA Touring Pros.

Don't ever forget your family and friends, though. In the end, they are the ones who will be there for you in your time of need. God bless you, Frank, and may you be successful in all that you do.

UPA, All the Way!

UPA, All the Way!

Down with the BCA and WPA, I say.

UPA, ALL THE WAY!

JAM

 

[MikeJanis]

UPA, All the Way!

UPA, All the Way!

Down with the BCA and WPA, I say.

UPA, ALL THE WAY!

JAM

Jennie, it's way too early in the morning to be this cheerful. What is wrong with you girl?

I wake up and cuss at people. You wake up and do cheers.

I sure wish I had your energy and outlook. Right now I can vision you jumping up and down with pom poms.

 

[RunoutalloverU]

Jennie, it's way too early in the morning to be this cheerful. What is wrong with you girl?

I wake up and cuss at people. You wake up and do cheers.

I sure wish I had your energy and outlook. Right now I can vision you jumping up and down with pom poms.

Yeah JAM, what is your secret?

 

[JAM]

Jennie, it's way too early in the morning to be this cheerful. What is wrong with you girl?

I wake up and cuss at people. You wake up and do cheers.

I sure wish I had your energy and outlook. Right now I can vision you jumping up and down with pom poms.

LOL! Actually, I'm up a little late today. I usually get up at 3:00 and 4:00 a.m.

We must help Frank, Mike. You are working with the BCA now, and maybe you can influence them to reconsider what they have done.

The BCA moved swiftly in their decision-making process without consulting the UPA. What's fair is fair, and that is wrong. I think you may recognize that a little bit.

Help the UPA get what is rightfully theirs. The players are behind the UPA. The BCA, as you know, Mike, hasn't always been there for professional pool. They have no right to do this.

God bless the UPA!

USA, all the way.

UPA, all the way.

USA, all the way.

UPA, all the way, I say!

JAM

 

[JAM]

Yeah JAM, what is your secret?

Whatever I reply to you, you will twist it around and make me look like a bad guy, like you did yesterday in another thread. You are not on my birthday cake list.

My secret is that I am old. When you get old, you can't sleep.

JAM

 

[jason]

Guaranteed? WTF

guaranteed: a promise or assurance, esp. one in writing, that something is of specified quality, content, benefit, etc., or that it will perform satisfactorily for a given length of time: a money-back guarantee.


Guaranteed is a very strong word. Basically, it is a contract, either verbal or written.

Lets be clear here. The most important issue for the players is the money. That being said, the most important issue for the UPA is credability.

I clearly understand this situation. I'm also not a lawyer, but I'm NOT so sure the UPA isn't somewhat legally responsible. The players have "paid" for their dues and the UPA put their stamp of approval on this tournament. I would be very careful in the "wording" the UPA uses in future sanctioning of events.

If the UPA cannot "protect" the players from this exact type of circumstance, then just what exactly is the UPA good for?

 

[JAM]

guaranteed: a promise or assurance, esp. one in writing, that something is of specified quality, content, benefit, etc., or that it will perform satisfactorily for a given length of time: a money-back guarantee.


Guaranteed is a very strong word. Basically, it is a contract, either verbal or written.

Lets be clear here. The most important issue for the players is the money. That being said, the most important issue for the UPA is credability.

I clearly understand this situation. I'm also not a lawyer, but I'm NOT so sure the UPA isn't somewhat legally responsible. The players have "paid" for their dues and the UPA put their stamp of approval on this tournament. I would be very careful in the "wording" the UPA uses in future sanctioning of events.

If the UPA cannot "protect" the players from this exact type of circumstance, then just what exactly is the UPA good for?

One thing for sure, the public has no say in this matter.

This will be handled by the UPA representatives and the UPA touring pros collectively as an organization.

What I think or anybody else thinks doesn't mean squat. The UPA has gotta do what it's gotta do to survive, and every step of the way is backed by the players collectively as a whole. I have not heard of any disgruntled UPA members in recent times. In fact, they are finally together as one unit. They need to be supported, more than ever now, against the big bad BCA who only cares about how fat its industry members can get, leaving American pros out in the pasture to starve.

JAM

 

[MikeJanis]

LOL! Actually, I'm up a little late today. I usually get up at 3:00 and 4:00 a.m.

We must help Frank, Mike. You are working with the BCA now, and maybe you can influence them to reconsider what they have done.

Nope, I am not working with the BCA. I simply made a proposal to them which I never officially released but was denied by the board. Additionally, they did not allow me through their nominations committee to even run as a board member. What a joke. In effect they removed or did not nominate anyone that has anything to do with the players from what I understand.


The BCA moved swiftly in their decision-making process without consulting the UPA. What's fair is fair, and that is wrong. I think you may recognize that a little bit.

Help the UPA get what is rightfully theirs. The players are behind the UPA. The BCA, as you know, Mike, hasn't always been there for professional pool. They have no right to do this.

Unfortunately they do have the right and they did it. I am positive that the bCA will not reverse their decision. That's the word on the street anyway

God bless the UPA!

USA, all the way.

UPA, all the way.

USA, all the way.

UPA, all the way, I say!

JAM

Jenny, I should also note that I hand delivered information to CW in 94 at the BCA Trade Show which he accepted on behalf of the UPA. I also stated to him at that time that I would like to find a way for us (Viking Tour / NUTS Program ) to work together with the UPA but I never heard anything back.


See the BLUE writing in the quote for my replies.