UPA sanctions US Open

[JAM]

as far as the open, if i come up with enough cash for the entry fee i'll be playing. i know i'll be playing in the dcc in jan, so the open is on the fence for this year.

I hear ya, VAP! We missed DCC this year, and it wasn't pretty at the M&M Ranch that week, a couple of sad faces! The dog was happy, though!

As a player, one has to schedule things within reason. The best bang for the buck is the regional weekenders. Hampton Ridge is pretty cool because it's a one-day event. I cannot imagine missing Hooker's Carolinas Open. I like the pool atmosphere in North Carolina THE BEST!

Sadly, it's pure economics. The Open is a once-in-a-year extravaganza, like the Kentucky Derby of pool. In essence, pool players only want to play pool. Because of financial strains, and sometimes politics, one may be thrown a curve ball every now and then on the tournament trail. To play or not to play, that is the question!

JAM

 

[Timberly]

i'll be there for the state tourney jam. playing in it this year though. i'm shooting for a top 16 finish this year.

as far as the open, if i come up with enough cash for the entry fee i'll be playing. i know i'll be playing in the dcc in jan, so the open is on the fence for this year.

VAP

I don't have the website handy right now but if you go to the us open website, they have a listing of all the qualifier tourneys..... much cheaper way to get into the Open.....

 

[vapoolplayer]

I don't have the website handy right now but if you go to the us open website, they have a listing of all the qualifier tourneys..... much cheaper way to get into the Open.....

don't you have to be able to play good to win one of those though???


VAP

 

[Timberly]

don't you have to be able to play good to win one of those though???


VAP

You gotta be better to win the open

 

[Nomoney]

i checked ur post history

u suggested that vivian is a lesbian
u suggested for Kid D to open a show on the food channel

now,
u suggest that barry is a druggie


hrmm..may i suggest u shut the fuck up.

l stand by what l said, so kma

 

[Blackjack]

Hi Black Jack,

Credulous or unrealistic optimism?

Vagabond

Vagabond,

All I can tell you is that I will be in Jacksonville in a few weeks. I have already spoken with Frank Alvarez and have had a brief correspondence with Charlie a few days ago. These are both men that are very passionate about our sport. One thing that we need to realize is that the UPA is a very young organization. It has gone through a lot of growing pains. Mistakes were made, and for most of its infancy Charlie Williams was out front and took most of the heat. As players, as fans, as vendors, as tour directors, as promoters, we need to work through the problems instead of drawing lines in the sand and being stubborn with each other. The UPA has been painted as the big bad wolf of pool, and believe me, that is not the case. Is the UPA a perfect organization? Not at all. They have the potential to grow and develop and they are willing to grow stronger in their areas of weakness. They can only do so much. There is a responsibility to the industry, the fans, as well as the players. The heart of the billiard world is the industry. The heart must pump blood (money). We have a heart that is not pumping blood. This is due to many factors. As any vendor that pays for a booth at an event and makes no money. The heart must pump blood. If not, we will stay where we are at. I am optimistic about what our sport can become. I'm disappointed that it hasn't happened yet. Hopefully if we work together, it will improve. If we don't work together and put aside the resentments and bitterness, we'll stay where we are at.

I will also be at the US Open and hopefully everbody else will too. It can only be a successful event if we make it one. So if you can make it this year, please do. It would help our sport, our finest event, and our pro tour.

 

[sniper]

IMO I have a hard time seeing Mika playing the Open after what Mr.Behrman did to him.

 

[JustPlay]

Does all this really mean anything? Will the cashing players all get paid (in full)? Will more players attended this great event? What does the UPA really add to this event? Will less players quit after they get knocked to the one loss side (like so many did in 2004)?

The US open was the greatest 9-ball tournament in the world it seems to have slipped down the charts a bit as compared to the asian tours, european tours, DCC, World Championships and some of the UPA events.


I guess we can only wait and see....

 

[PrinsNick]

i personally don't think there should be seeding in an "open" event. either change the name or make it a real open.

Seeding players in pool tournaments is definitely a key ingredient necessary in bringing our game up to par with other professional sports. The logistics and practicality of seeding players often faces challenges, especially when you do not have one central governing or professional body that everyone participating belongs to (as with the whole UPA vs. the rest of the pool world issue). But ultimately, seeding players is not rocket science, even if you don't have one primary points list to work from.

I remember my first ever US Open event. I got a bye in the first round, and one of the top pros of the time (I don't remember exactly who it was, maybe Buddy Hall) did not. I found it odd that this could happen. I don't remember if they were seeding players that year (1998), or maybe not enough (out of 256) to include this player.

I understand that not seeding players, or not seeding a great number of players for certian events (including our own on the Planet Pool Tour), gives the little guy a better chance to do well or even win and thus draws more entries, but it definitely detracts of the prestige and professionality of the event. After all, the purpose of the tournament is to see who the best player is, not to see which underdog can become the next US Open Champion.

We are seriously considering seeding all our events, especially after our last event in Hagerstown which had Keith McCready playing Carl Jones, Josh Brothers, and then Shawn Putnam back to back in a 92-player open draw.

On a side note, I applaud the UPA and Barry & Co. for setting their differences aside for the sake of bringing the US Open's prestige back to where it belongs. There is hope for pool just yet.

 

[vapoolplayer]

After all, the purpose of the tournament is to see who the best player is, not to see which underdog can become the next US Open Champion.

.

if that be the case, then the "underdogs" shouldn't be allowed to play.

if its the US "O P E N" and ANYONE can play, then it should be a blind draw and equally fair to EVERYONE.

i don't mind the seeding of events that you have to qualify for, but events that are open for the average joe to pay and get into should be a blind draw.

are you saying that buddy halls 500 bucks is worth more than your 500? i don't think it is.

you say its sucks that keith had to play those 3 guys in a row, i agree, it does suck(keith by the way, gets the worst tournament draws i've ever seen in my life)

but he paid his 70 just like the other guys pay their 70........why should he be treated differently?



again, i'm not against seeded tourneys..........i'm against seeded "OPEN" tourneys.

the bca open is a seeded tourney i have no problem with. it should be called the BCA "invitational" though, because you can't just walk up and pay your entry fee and get in.



again, i'll ask this question.............is buddy halls 500 worth more than yours???

VAP

 

[King Kong]

Is the "Money" in an Escrow Account??????

The UPA requires the funds to be placed in an escrow account in years past. Does that requirement still apply and is it in force at the US Open this year? That is all I want to know, and I will gage weither I bother to attend or not based on the answer to that question.

I do not want the head ache if I luck up and make the 9 on the break 81 times in a row. LOL

This union adds credability to the event and the UPA is on the hook if something goes wrong to its players. But, what could you get from the UPA as far as compensation. They are hustling to get the $100 from its members and they are set up as an Limited Liability Company (LLC) that prevents you from going after anyone individually at the UPA. So, like Tom Cruise said in Jerry McGuire "SHOW ME THE MONEY"!!!!!

King Kong

 

[PrinsNick]

if its the US "O P E N" and ANYONE can play, then it should be a blind draw and equally fair to EVERYONE.

The word "Open" hardly means "blind draw." When the US Open tennis championships take place, or any other "Open" titled event in major sports, there are always seedings. Maybe that is one of the many reasons pool is not a "major" sport--it lags behind in professionality and other proven practices.

again, i'll ask this question.............is buddy halls 500 worth more than yours???

It has nothing to do with the money. Just because I am a nobody pool player who can afford to pay the entry fee does not entitle me the same treatment as someone who has paid their dues over and over to earn a prime spot on a pro ranking list. Where's the fairness in that?

 

[vapoolplayer]

The word "Open" hardly means "blind draw." When the US Open tennis championships take place, or any other "Open" titled event in major sports, there are always seedings. Maybe that is one of the many reasons pool is not a "major" sport--it lags behind in professionality and other proven practices.



It has nothing to do with the money. Just because I am a nobody pool player who can afford to pay the entry fee does not entitle me the same treatment as someone who has paid their dues over and over to earn a prime spot on a pro ranking list. Where's the fairness in that?

i think we're both on the same page. i don't mind seeded events, as long as they are events that one must qualify for.

this also brings to light, i don't think that a tournament that someone can gain PRO ranking points in, should be open to anyone. you should have to QUALIFY for a spot to earn ranking points, and i think the NUTS will provide this in the future.

so i do agree, and i do disagree. if the open is open to anyone, seeding should not take place. but the players should not be able to amass points on the pro ranking list.

as far as the "opens" in other sports, they are seeding, but a noname that hasn't paid their dues cannot put up the cash and enter. in this case i agree with seeding.

i would however disagree with the planet pool tourney's being seeded. it is a regional tourney that most players go to because they aren't good enough to play in pro events, or they are developing players. no need to seed players. i think the entry numbers might also be affected. but you know more about that than i do.

don't take this wrong, its just a slight difference in opinion if any, and i really do appreciate your and other people's efforts to put together regional tours.

thanks

VAP

 

[PrinsNick]

this also brings to light, i don't think that a tournament that someone can gain PRO ranking points in, should be open to anyone. you should have to QUALIFY for a spot to earn ranking points, and i think the NUTS will provide this in the future.

Agree, and agree. That is the whole idea with the NUTS. In snooker in the UK, as with most major individual sports internationally, you can only get into pro tournaments (even when they are called "open" events) by playing in qualifiers. (Pool should take a page out of snooker's book, BTW, which just paid $500,000 for first place in the recent world championships.)

i would however disagree with the planet pool tourney's being seeded. it is a regional tourney that most players go to because they aren't good enough to play in pro events, or they are developing players. no need to seed players. i think the entry numbers might also be affected. but you know more about that than i do.

I know, and that is the one reason we have been hesitant in doing so--the same reason the US Open does not seed 128 players--because initially, you would have a drop in participation. I say "initially," because in general, people don't respond well to sudden change. But ultimately, I believe that players would realize that seedings is in their favor once it has been established as a consistent format. Getting seeded is something improving players should aspire to, thus making them try harder and encouraging them to play in tournaments more often in order to accumulate ranking points to thus earn their seeding. That is how you get a sport to grow--not by looking at the short-term gains and losses, but at the big picture over the course of several years. (That has been the problem in pool, I think. Many promotors jump into it hoping to make a quick buck while ignoring proven practices that take more time to achieve results.)

As for the Planet Pool Tour--which gets a mix of pros and amateurs--we are thinking of seeding only a small portion of the field, which will give the top players a slightly fairer draw while not alienating the others.

Funny thing happened at our year-end final at the end of 2003, though--we seeded 16 out of 120 players, and both the number one and two seeds (Mike davis and Pooky Rasmeloungon) lost their first matches. So it doesn't always make it easier for the top guys. But what it does do when the top seeds do not get eliminated is to give most spectators what they come to see--the top guys going at it in the final rounds, especially if the matches are close. Therein lies the benefit of seeding players.

 

[Blackjack]

this also brings to light, i don't think that a tournament that someone can gain PRO ranking points in, should be open to anyone. you should have to QUALIFY for a spot to earn ranking points, and i think the NUTS will provide this in the future.

VAP

I think it should be pointed out that the N.U.T.S. is not in any way affiliated with the UPA. From speaking with Mike Janis, I got the understanding that the N.U.T.S. is a separate tour altogether and he has no plans at the current time to work with the UPA. When I spoke with Mike Janis, I expressed concern about that, and I would really like to see that change. I got the impression that Mike Janis has his own plans, and he's sticking to them at this time. When I spoke with Frank Alvarez this week, he was unaware of what the N.U.T.S. stood for, who it consisted of, and what their plans are. If the two remain separate and attempt to compete with each other, I believe that the sport will continue to be divided and we will continue on our present course. If they decide to sit down and work together, we'll have a powerful tour system that is positively focused on building our game and our industry.

 

[JustPlay]

At this current time, there is no "Professional" pool in America. There is no "formal" tour for which players have to quailfy for or be seated in a position in a "open" tournament. The UPA -BCA "open" is really not an open event and only qualified players can play in this event as with some other UPA events.


So the US open is an open event and ANYONE who pays the $500.00 to play will be playing the random draw (as we would like to think so). Wait until September to find out how everything turns out.....

 

[vapoolplayer]

At this current time, there is no "Professional" pool in America. There is no "formal" tour for which players have to quailfy for or be seated in a position in a "open" tournament. The UPA -BCA "open" is really not an open event and only qualified players can play in this event as with some other UPA events.


So the US open is an open event and ANYONE who pays the $500.00 to play will be playing the random draw (as we would like to think so). Wait until September to find out how everything turns out.....

the press release says that the top 16 UPA pro's will be seeded in the Open, as well as seniors, past winners, and anyone else at the promoters discretion.

VAP

 

[TheOne]

Orlando Open-August 3-7, 2005-Orlando, Florida, at Disney, $30,000 in cash and prices based on a full field.

$25,000-added Joss Northeast 9-Ball Tour Season Finale at the Turning Stone Casino in Verona, New York, August 18-21, 2005

$20,000-added Carolinas Open-Goldsboro, North Carolina-September 6-11, 2005

$50,000-added U.S. Open, Chesapeake Beach, Virginia-September 19-25, 2005

I want to go to all four of these tournaments. We already paid our entry fee for the Joss Turning Stone Casino in New York, and I can't wait. Pool is definitely alive and well on the East Coast. I just wish my pocket book allowed me to go to every single one. Unless I hit the lottery, we will be forced to pick and choose.
JAM

That's what I was looking at JAM, not sure about costs but what a fantastic window of events. Isn't the World Summit of Pool also on Sept 14-17th in NYC? That also sounds like a great event and fits in well if it hasn't been cancelled or anything?

 

[Fleece3]

Hey JAM,

As far as I know (I could be wrong) Kieth is not a member of the UPA. If that is the case, will he still be able to play in the US OPEN??

 

[Nostroke]

Hey JAM,

As far as I know (I could be wrong) Kieth is not a member of the UPA. If that is the case, will he still be able to play in the US OPEN??

He played at Valley Forge, a UPA event.