UPA's Position on Danny Harriman's Issues

Shorty said:
I don't have a dog in this fight, but here is what my morals would have me do.

Number 1, I would not worry about the four hundred bucks. That should be peanuts to a player like Danny Harriman...hell I have lost more than that in 4 hands of blackjack.

Number 2, the situation where the guy did not pay him, if that was indeed due to inclimate weather, I would be a gentleman and tell him to settle up with me whenever he could...let that be on his conscious and not mine. Knowing my focus is on my pool game and not on whose playing me or paying me, I would not be concerned about being paid due to circumstances beyond my control. Last time I checked I am not mother nature.

Be a gentleman Danny, that's what this sport needs.

That's just me...and I also commend Blackjack for trying to get these people through this difficult situation.

Take it for what it's worth...about a penny,
Shorty
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So every room owner/tournament promoter that see's this should just stiff Danny and he can be a gentleman and forget what he has rightfully coming.......SWEET!
 
Blackjack said:
I'm not sure what you mean by me choosing sides... If Danny cannot come up with the original, then he learned a $400 lesson entitled Punctual Check Deposit 101.
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That's what they mean about being one sided.
When you talk about Punctual Check Deposit 101, but flat ignore
Punctual Pay your Prize Fund 101...
 
Blackjack said:
As many of you have read in some of the posts, Danny Harriman has gone public with his issues regarding money owed him for past tournaments sanctioned by the UPA. Danny's statements were brought up by himself publicly. Danny has contended that the money is owed him, yet the UPA has done nothing to assist him in getting paid. Danny also has said publicly that the UPA have been hounding him for his $100 membership fee, and that he had a verbal altercation with UPA Rep Frank Alvarez prior to his match with Corey Deuel at the Bicycle Club. Danny Harriman forfeited his match when he broke down his cue and left during mid-match. Danny addressed this issue publicly last week and responded to questions and thanked people for supporting him. I offered to work with Danny, the UPA, and Brady Behrman to come to a viable solution that would bring back a great player to the professional game. I publicly and privately offered to work on Danny's behalf to try to correct this situation. I have even offered to pay Danny's entry fee into the next UPA event in Jacksonville in an attempt to mend fences between Danny and Frank Alvarez. I have spoken to the parties involved,including Frank Alvarez & Brady Behrman. I have publicy and privately asked Danny to contact me to discuss a solution to this matter. Danny has yet to contact me regarding this situation, so I can only go by what he has posted here in regards to this issue.

I would like to say that the people I have talked to were very open about this issue. My reason for doing this was to try to bridge a gap between the UPA, the promoter, and the player. It is a very easy, workable solution which will work out for everybody. My goal is to ensure that Danny gets paid what he is due. Many have gravitated towards Danny's side in the issue, which is great, we should support the player. I'm not on Danny's side, I'm not on The UPA's side, or Brady's... I'm on pool's side. We need to address these issues and correct them much more efficiently than we have in the past, and hopefully we can learn from this incident. It is important, however, that we understand that we have only heard Danny's side of this issue.

In speaking with UPA Representative Frank Alvarez I found him very honest, open, and willing to resolve this issue. I can honestly say that I believe that Frank Alvarez, working on behalf of the UPA, has done everything in his power to resolve this issue with Danny Harriman. If anyone doesn't believe that, ask Frank. He will take your calls, he will answer questions, and I respect him greatly for that.

Danny Harriman Forfeits against Corey Deuel

Danny has said publicly that he did this in order to protest his issues with Frank Alvarez about the $100 membership fee the UPA requires. Though this may be partially the case, it is not the entire story of what happened prior to Danny forfeiting his match. Corey had played safe, Danny had no shot and he basically just fired at the cue ball. Someone in the crowd laughed, Danny didn't like it, and he decided that he had enough stress for one day.

The issue with Danny Harriman's UPA membership was not a new issue. Acording to the UPA, Danny had been represented as a UPA member
because of the monies owed to him - no other reason. Danny Harriman had been asked to take care of it in the past, and had refused to do so. Danny was represented and treated just as if he had paid that membership fee, a fact that he has not brought up. He enjoyed all of the perks that come with UPA membership (seeding, representation) yet he had not paid a dime for it. Apparantly, Tony Robles had also brought this issue to Danny Harriman, as well as Frank Alvarez. Frank Alvarez's version of what happened and why is much different than what has been portrayed in the other threads. Without going into who is telling the truth, and who is not telling the truth, it is safe to say that there was a communication breakdown between Frank Alvarez and Danny Harriman at the Bicycle Club event. Words were exchanged, and a line was drawn in the sand. Without getting into that, I will explain the issues that have already been discussed, and I will try add some clarity to the events.

Monies owed Danny Harriman by Brady Behrman

For problems beyond Brady Behrman's control, he came up approximately $10K short for the event in question. He owed other players money besides Danny. Danny had made this a major issue with the UPA. The UPA worked on Danny's behalf to ensure that Brady would pay Danny Harriman the $2000 that was owed him. According to Brady, he paid Danny Harriman with two $500 money orders. According to Brady, he sent Danny Harriman a PM on this site to ask why he was saying that he never paid him. According to Brady, he owes Danny approximately $800. Brady has publicly and privately acknowledged this debt and has every intention of paying what he owes. It is also important to note that Brady owes other players money, and to my knowledge, I think Danny is the only one close to being paid the enitre amount owed, yet he has been the most vocal in his dissatisfaction.

The UPA was not at fault during this issue. Some fault can be pushed Brady Behrman's way, but understand he can't pay what he doesn't have. He has made every effort to publicly acknowledge several issues where he owes money in relation to several difficulties he has experienced. In every instance, Brady has acknowledge and admitted fault, regret, and a solution to pay what he owes. That's not easy to do provately, nevermind doing it publicly as he has done in this forum and many others. Because of what happened with Brady Behrman's event, The UPA have since changed their policies when dealing with promoters, the specifics of these changes can be found at their web site ( www.upatour.org ). The UPA took it upon themselves to help a non-member (Danny Harriman) and on Danny's behalf worked tirelessly to assist him. In return, they had asked Danny to pay the UPA membership fee, seeing he was enjoying all the benefits of being a UPA member. Danny refused to pay in response to monies owed him by Brady Behrman (according to his own post). At this point it was clear to the UPA that he was using ths issue as a bargaining tool. If Danny Harriman wanted the UPA to assist him in this issue, their is a fee for that. Legal representation costs a lot more than $100, and that is basically what the UPA was doing on Danny Harriman's behalf - for FREE. Danny Harrimn was approached by the UPA at their players meeting in January, and Danny said he would take care of the membership fee but failed to do so. By the time Frank Alvarez confronted Danny Harriman at the Bicycle Club event, it had become an issue with other players that had paid their membership fee. For forfeiting his match, Danny would be barred from competing in the next UPA event. Danny's forfeit was a disppointment to all of his supporting fans, as well as Corey Deuel's fans.

There was a phone conversation between Farnk Alvarez and Danny Harriman in which Danny Harriman basically said he was through with the UPA and he no longer wanted to talk with Frank Alvarez. This is the last correspondence the UPA has had with Danny Harriman.

Monies owed Danny Harriman by Bin Min
According to Danny Harriman's own admission, he waited "A couple of months" before trying to deposit the check. Most checks are good for only 90 days, which was probably the case with the check he recieved from that event. According o Dannys post, he admittedly says he is "unorganized" and lost the copy of the check that bank mailed him. This is not the UPA's fault, and it's not Bin Min's fault at all. When asked to produce the original check, Danny says he sent a copy which Mr. Min did not accept as the original. Mr. Min has no problems paying Danny Harriman the money once the original check is recieved. This is not "the whammy" as Danny Harriman referred to it. This is a business man that requires proof that money is owed before he pays you. The reason for this is: If you waited past the date of the check being valid, he doesn't owe Danny a red cent. Where The irresponsibility or Danny Harriman's admitted "unorganization" becomes the UPA's problem is not clear; yet Frank Alvarez went to bat on behalf of Danny Harriman to make sure he would receive his money. It's a safe bet that if he does not have the original, he won't be receiving money from Bin Min, and its not Mr. Min's fault, or the UPA's. It's Danny Harriman's fault for not depositing the check in a reasonably timely fashion.

In response to Danny's situation, I made an offer with Danny so that we could try to sit all parties down to come to a solution. In doing so, I talked to several people and I am still willing to do that. A player of Danny's ability should play with the best players in the world. In putting personal differences aside and coming to a solution , the following needs to occur.

1) Danny you need to contact me. My offer still stands. I will pay your entry fee to the Jacksonville event and your $100 UPA membership fee - to make this right - no strings attached. In return, you will be an active UPA member and receive all the benefits that come along with that - including tour points
seedings, and representation. All I am asking is that we sit down and handle this as adults.

2) Brady must pay Danny the remainder of what he is owed. Brady says its $800. Danny says he was never paid a dime, yet Frank Alvarez confirmed that Brady has made payments to Danny Harriman. Brady Behrman attempted to contact Danny privately to ask why Danny is saying he hasn't recieved money from him. Danny, you never replied to Brady Behrman.

In closing, I would like to let Danny Harriman know that all of us want this situation corrected. Nobody I have talked to is against Danny Harriman. In speaking with the UPA, there are several ways that this situation will be avoided with in the future. There have also been talks between myself and several tour directors about having an entity set up for the players to use in situations such as this. This would keep situations like this from getting out of hand. It is safe to say Danny that is a very good possibility that the money owed to you can be in your bank account by the end of this week - if you'd just pick up the phone and talk. It's great that everybody is behind you
during your misfortunes, but they also need to know the other side of the story. In situations such as this, it can be very easy to get caught up in a popularity contest instead of what the facts are. I hope that doesn't end up being the case here. The ball is in Danny's court. If he wants a solution, he'll contact me, Frank, or Brady to discuss this issue and resolve it once and for all. Either way, Danny, you win. Feel free to contact me anytime at
(386) 208-0011.
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quote
"Some fault can be pushed Brady Behrman's way, but understand he can't pay what he doesn't have."

It doesn't work like that. If he wants to gamble on running tournaments let him do it with his own money, not the players money. If he doesn't have it don't put on tournaments. It's that simple. How many time does this B.S. have to happen.
 
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What We Have Here

Is A Failure To Communicate. I honestly believe that the parties involved here need to communicate with one another. Blackjack, you can't make em do it. It all sounds a little childish to me. Egos will always mess things up. 9/11, hurricanes, old checks, and old debts. The deal about the check sounds a little strange. Everybody should just come to some kind of agreement and stick to it. If they won't talk, it is their own fault. I am not totally sure that everybody has the facts straight. Broadcasting stuff like this can only hurt pool. Blackjack, nice try buddy. One of the few voices of reason in this whole debate.
Purdman :confused:
 
So true

stevelomako said:
So, Let me get this straight..................I write a check to someone--I deduct the amount from my account--then if they don't cash it--I GET TO PUT IT BACK IN MY ACCOUNT????? PLEASE

There is only one solution:

(1) As someone stated, Bin Min stops payment on his check, deducts the fee from the NEW check he writes.

(2) Brady pays what he owes.

(3) Then Danny can pay his UPA membership...If he chooses to remain a member.


If you want to help him why don't you get this done for him. All it looks like, is deadbeats trying NOT to pay, all they have to do is give him his money.

One guy (Bin Min) trying to get out of it saying give me the original check....its not possible so stop the payment and deduct it and give another one or cash with a receipt.

One guy (Brady Berman) trying to get out of it saying "I only owe $800 not $2000". WELL....GIVE HIM $800 AND FIGHT ABOUT THE REST.


Anything other than the above proves that they are just deadbeats.
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This is where it is one sided by Blackjack even though probably not intentionally. He is backing Bin Min because he wants to see a cancelled check. Well how about Bin Min checking his account and see if the check has been ever cashed, if not , simple ,reissue. That is the other side. If Danny cannot find the check does not mean the other party should gain. And from what was said the check would be so old now, it could not be cashed anyway so stop payment is irrevelant although you could do it as a safeguard. They owe Danny the money, not the other way around.
 
Shorty you're nuts. You want someone to forgive a $400 debt? You think Danny is rich? I have a deadbeat who owes me $7.00 and I hound him every time I see him.

As far as the check - if I write you (whoever you are) a check and you don't cash it that is okay with me, I won't press you to cash it. But if you contact me and say you must have lost it because you can't find it then since I really owed you the money I will write you another check. But you better not cash both checks. That would not be funny.

Shorty, you really are not nuts, So now that we are friends how about loaning me $200?

Jake
 
Blackjack said:
I'm not sure what you mean by me choosing sides. I think I was pretty clear that I was on "pool's" side. The inconsistencies in what Danny said in several of the posts had to be addressed and pointed out because the information I provided was verified. If it seems as if I chose a side in any of this, then you are reading too much into this. In the instance of the check given to Danny from Bin Min, Danny admittedly held on to it longer than usual. Danny said something about the account being closed, or the check not accepted. Either way, Mr. Min asked for the original copy of the check, which he needed to justify writing a new one. Until Danny comes up with the original, it's basically his loss. It becomes an issue between Danny and Bin Min, not the UPA. Danny was paid with the original check. Danny himself said in his post that he was very "unorganized" and he misplaced the letter from the bank (or the returned check). This is not the UPA's fault at all. It's not Bin Min's fault either. It's Danny's for waiting as long as he did. If Danny cannot come up with the original, then he learned a $400 lesson entitled Punctual Check Deposit 101.
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The only thing i can agree on with you on the above is that Danny and Ben Min's problem is not the UPA's fault.

I get checks myself and every once in a while I don't cash one. You know what happens? The company writes me and asks me whether i want another check issued.

I dont expect this in pool but for Pete's sake (who is he?) at least reissue another check when you are contacted and stop payment on the original. That's not what you would do? It's hard to believe that you would think it's just tough luck Danny here. If an old lady forgets to cash her SS check, screw her!-Right?
 
Thanks Blackjack

Thanks Blackjack... like someone else said. that is alot of information to digest. this year will be my 17 year going to the open. i can remember when it was held at the Lake Wright Hotel and conference center.
I have seen Danny play for several years and always thought him a kind and gentle person. easy to talk to and always willing to give an autograph. that is until a few years ago when he was late for a match and had to forfeit. He was on the winners side still and when Scott Smith told him that he was 18 minutes late for his match and that the time limit was 15 minutes and that he had publically announced that he was on the clock, there was no way to recind the forfeit. Danny stormed out of the Open and forfeited his next match and left. Not a word to anybody that he was leaving. Well Danny did not come back to the Open for a few years. Who i felt sorry for that year was the guy who bought Danny in the Calcutta for $600 and had to forfeit that money.
I find that Danny is a very tempermental person who it appears is under alot of stress. I hope he can get this under control soon and bring his game back to the level where it belongs. Good luck Danny in the future and i sincerely hope that you can get things all worked out.....mike
 
The law is very clear

Blackjack said:
In the instance of the check given to Danny from Bin Min, Danny admittedly held on to it longer than usual. Danny said something about the account being closed, or the check not accepted. Either way, Mr. Min asked for the original copy of the check, which he needed to justify writing a new one. Until Danny comes up with the original, it's basically his loss. It becomes an issue between Danny and Bin Min, not the UPA. Danny was paid with the original check.
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A check is NOT a payment. It is an instrument. Until the instrument is used to transfer funds, NO payment has been made.

If the U.S. Mail lost a check, or your dog ate it, you can't show the original. That's what Stop Payment Orders are all about.

If the check cleared with funds going to Danny, payment has been made. Otherwise, NO payment has occurred.
 
Danny

Snapshot9 said:
I, personally, know Danny, and have played in a few Midwest 9 ball tour events with him in the past. I found him to be a very nice person, very congenial, and a person with no quirky personality traits or rude in any way. He is a very good Pool player, and a good sport.

Most Pool players always need money, so I find it hard to believe that a check, if received, would not be deposited in a timely manner.
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I was sitting right there and was kinda takin back when he just slapped the cue ball into the other balls, a girl in the crowd kinda giggled. And Danny said "you think thats funny?, you wouldn't be laughing if you where in my shoes"

Corey played out his turn at the table and then danny broke his stick down and stormed off.

Danny was one of my top 3 players I payed alot of money to see being that i bought multiple vip passes for non pool playing friends of mine to come and watch with me.

I like danny's style of pool alot and want to see him with the upa again.

Mack
 
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