Update on the Des Moines pool scene

lady9ball said:
I heard a rumor from a pretty reliable source that they will start using the Master Team classification again. Meaning there will be a list of players who have placed high on a team, who will be considered masters when it comes to putting their team together. They don't necessarily have to be classified as a master in singles, though.

Touchy stuff, and it comes up every year. I wish I knew the answer, but in my opinion a national ranking system (USAPL style? FARGO?) would sure help a lot.
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When I first started playing teams YEARS ago that's how it was for teams... you had alot of players who were on the masters team list but may not be on the masters singles list. It sure seemed like that worked fine... But~ the elite list needs to go away. That thing is nothing but heartburn on paper! Just my opinion.
 
Spimp13,

Sounds like you might be an Open Level 1 player. I have to ask, where would your peers put you...skillwise? would they put you in the Open Level 1 or Masters Division? They are the ones that should have a really good idea of your ability and you should support their decision. Obviously there will be some 'on the bubble' but those can really go either way.

It doesn't sound like you are overrated in the division that you are in but would you consider dropping to a lower level just so you would have a better chance to win? Some would and unfortunatley some do.

Oh yeah, I keep forgetting...CONGRATULATION TO MIKEY AND KARLA FOR THEIR MOST EXCELLENT SHOWING IN THE ELITE MIXED SCOTCH DOUBLES TOURNAMENT.

And congrats to all of the players that did well. BTW, there were a couple of Division Champions from CR as well. DM probably had the most winners but CR faired well too. I'm just sayin'....;)

L8R...Ken
 
Richardson said:
Very good question. I know at one time the city of des moines was going to add money and donate the use of i believe the Hy-vee hall for the tournament. Don't know what ever happened with that.
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OMG that would be super duper indeed. Probably need a couple years notice to secure that venue I would think... With DOZENS of great dining options, Court Ave. district, easy to navigate downtown, etc... (some shopping out west) The ladies would appreciate that! Who knows~ maybe Chet would make a guest appearance...the list goes on!
 
Wow, while I was typing my last response, I see a half dozen new poasts. Either I type really slow or there are a lot of busy fingers out there.

OK Jenni, I will try to fill in the blanks here, but I just noticed that Jason hit on the answers already. This could be long so get ready.

4 or 5 years ago, some players from DM approched me and asked if they could help get the tournament moved to DM. I was eccstatic. We got things rolling with HyVee hall and the city of DM and worked out some quick deals. Things were looking good and the Board of Directors arranged for a tour of the facilities and a sales pitch from the DM Sports Commission. All was going well but we lost our local support group. No one from DM (pool players, League Operator...no one) showed up for that meeting and it was noted. Now since there is a lot of leg work and such involved locally, it was decided that the people from DM were not yet ready to support this move. So the vote went to Davenport.

A couple of years ago, we switched some players around, Julie Guzman got involved and the DM Sports Commission took a bigger role. They were 'balls to the walls' with enthusiasm. They worked very, very hard to make another great presentation. The offer was almost equal to what we were offered in Davenport. But, alas, this time the Board of Directors itself burst the bubble. Of the 30+ league that were to decide where to have the tournament in the future, less than 20 decided to show up for that meeting. There was good discusion and debate with some good points and some really anal points made (BTW, you can see the minutes of this meeting at the ISPA web site). In the end, the vote was close...12-8 in favor of Davenport so that's where we are. I wonder what the vote would have been if all League Operators were present.

We are committed to Davenport for two more years so this next year will be the time to actively promote Des Moines again. Dubuque has also shown some interest in putting in a bid as well as Ames. We will consider all locations big enough to house out tournament.

Personally, I would love to see this event go to DM or even Ames. After all, on a target, where is the bulls eye? In the center, not on the edge.

I feel confident that this organization would increase by at least 1/3 if we moved to DM. Right now, we do not have any leagues west of I-35. As Mikey mentioned, DM is 3 hours from everywhere. If the State Championship Tournament was held in DM (the center, the bulls eye) I'm sure we would attract leagues from Soiux City, more from Omaha, Shenondoah, Carroll, Ft Dodge etc. to add to the numbers. And what a great tournament that would be. There is a plethera of talent out there that we haven't even touched yet. Let's have a true Iowa State Poolplayers Championship Tournament to see who really is the best in Iowa.

We need people from DM to help us get this there. Julie is once again doing a great job but I'm sure she could use some help. There is a lot of work involved in something this large. Look at all the help we get from the girls in the office at our tournament. Those are all volunteers. They work long hard hours and we only give them a meal or two. Can you guys in DM provide that kind of support? Will you have a crew that will put the room together, set up the tables and then take them down again at the end? You need to make that sincere commitment and follow though.

I told you it would be long. Don't get me started. Well, my fingers are sore now and it's lunch time.

L8R...Ken
 
mikeiniowa said:
oh and I didn't shake your hand? Or jasons? Or justins? Or jamies? Could of swore I did.

once again you make it out I am the bad guy. I didn't start this. Go back a page.
I am downplaying your accomplishment? I was accused of cheating and we didn't deserve to be playing for the championship?
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Wow, maybe you should seek more professional help. They can teach you how to deal with losing to me :) I'm sure it's tough, but they can show you how to lose like a man too.

You could have been a grownup and shook my hand, but no!
 
Known ability

I think there is an obvious flaw in the system when the championship team has two National Masters as their required open players.

But, the system we have in place, starts with the players placing themselves accurately, then their league operator checking that, and finally the ISPA doing the last check.

As far as being able to prove yourself because a player hasn't played in a certain tournament... I agree with that when it is a younger player that is up and coming, like Jimmy or Daniel, etc. But when it is someone from a different state that has been around, even to the extent of proving themselves nationally, that is much different.

I also think it is funny that someone that is on the National VNEA Masters list won the Iowa State tournament, level 1 division.
 
Like sand in the hourglass...

I'm glad I ain't working hard today. :joyful:

Great tournament to all -- nice to see DM represented well. ISPA is my favorite tournament and I only hope to see it grow. The tables DID play consistently and good (for Valley) and I would still like to see Diamonds. Maybe if/when we move.

Ken already gave the ISPA DM move History schpeel.

Bottomline is that we need supportive people to do all the behind-the-scene stuff that gets done in the QC now. and if we DO want Diamond tables, someone to "RUN" the tournament. Gary is a tough act to follow too, for sure.

I will volunteer for a bit part - Due to time, I can not committ to anything more, but would be willing to help where needed, when needed. Maybe it's just running Mini's at 3 am, but I volunteer. Who else is in?

I honestly don't mind ducking town for a few days and going where they don't know my name. all the time anyway. BUT....

....I also agree with Ken's vision and for that to happen --- One pocket tournament, green room, finals table pit with seating and streaming video, etc --- we need more space. QC, Clinton, DM, Ames or Carlisle; it don't matter, but we need more space.

FWIW, JMO.
 
I've had enough of the nit picking, cry babies for the day. I am going to go outside and enjoy the weather with my kid. Maybe some of you should do the same.

-Jason (State Champ)
 
mikeiniowa said:
oh and I didn't shake your hand? Or jasons? Or justins? Or jamies? Could of swore I did.

once again you make it out I am the bad guy. I didn't start this. Go back a page.
I am downplaying your accomplishment? I was accused of cheating and we didn't deserve to be playing for the championship?
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Mike, you have a very diluted sense of reality don't you? What you have to realize is that there is more to life than pool!! Once you realize that, you might be able to just lose without losing your mind on AZBilliards Main Forum. Obviously you should find a way to deal with your anger! Maybe you should take up tennis, golf, or bowling. Pool just isn't working for you.

This whole thing pales in comparison to the reality of day to day life. It's time to grow up and start being an adult about this, Mike. All this does is make things worse for you and everybody else. Not sure what you are hoping to accomplish, but it's time to STOP! With that being said I am going to stop with the petty crap! If you want to talk about an actual pool topic, I'm game...if not, well have fun with that.
 
Man, this thread has headed south in a hurry. Congrats to all the local teams (and individuals), it sounds like you all had great tournies last weekend! :thumbup:
 
Mike B. said:
I think there is an obvious flaw in the system when the championship team has two National Masters as their required open players.

But, the system we have in place, starts with the players placing themselves accurately, then their league operator checking that, and finally the ISPA doing the last check.

As far as being able to prove yourself because a player hasn't played in a certain tournament... I agree with that when it is a younger player that is up and coming, like Jimmy or Daniel, etc. But when it is someone from a different state that has been around, even to the extent of proving themselves nationally, that is much different.

I also think it is funny that someone that is on the National VNEA Masters list won the Iowa State tournament, level 1 division.
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Mike, I understand you are going to defend your friend. I want to make one thing very clear...I am on the VNEA National Masters List, and I have never played in their national tournament! I am not sure how I got on that list, but I don't believe I should be because of that fact. And yes, I won the Valley state tourney, intermediate level. I am proud of that because I did prove that I belong in the masters next year on the state level for VNEA. I played the Level 1 tournament at ISPA, and finished 13-16th, so I will play it again next year. I failed to prove myself in that tournament, which means I am not a master player in the ISPA's eyes. That's the system we have in place, and just the way it is.

I have respect for you, and hope you don't really want to get involved in this mess.
 
Just a bit of devils advocate here, some sarcasm...whatever.

Jon brown said: "I played the Level 1 tournament at ISPA, and finished 13-16th, so I will play it again next year. I failed to prove myself in that tournament, which means I am not a master player in the ISPA's eyes."

This is my response to some players in that situation (didn't win)....It only proves that there was another Master player that was better than you in the wrong division.

Don't take it the wrong way Jon, but like I said to you before...if the shoe fits....

:thumbup:Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
Just a bit of devils advocate here, some sarcasm...whatever.

Jon brown said: "I played the Level 1 tournament at ISPA, and finished 13-16th, so I will play it again next year. I failed to prove myself in that tournament, which means I am not a master player in the ISPA's eyes."

This is my response to some players in that situation (didn't win)....It only proves that there was another Master player that was better than you in the wrong division.

Don't take it the wrong way Jon, but like I said to you before...if the shoe fits....

:thumbup:Ken
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Ken, you just made my day with that one :) lmao!!
 
A part of the problem why Master players want to be classified as Open players is the fact that in order for an Elite to play on a team, they must have an Open player playing at the same time. I look at the roster of both those DM teams an see a really stacked team - on both sides.

I am going to suggest we eliminate the Open player provision with an Elite, maybe allow only one Elite on a Master team, and maybe not allow any Master players on and Open team (that last one creates a problem for smaller communities, but we might be able to work something out in that specific situation). Those three options pretty much takes away the advantage to being classified as an Open player if you truly are a Master player. Only a truly selfish person would then be trying to slip into the lower division...and I'm afraid there will always be those guys around.

I'd love to hear ideas out of you guys instead of just hearing how bad the system is. Make some suggestions...I can present them all to the Board of Directors and they can decide if they have merit.

L8R...Ken
 
SKUNKBOY said:
A part of the problem why Master players want to be classified as Open players is the fact that in order for an Elite to play on a team, they must have an Open player playing at the same time. I look at the roster of both those DM teams an see a really stacked team - on both sides.

I am going to suggest we eliminate the Open player provision with an Elite, maybe allow only one Elite on a Master team, and maybe not allow any Master players on and Open team (that last one creates a problem for smaller communities, but we might be able to work something out in that specific situation). Those three options pretty much takes away the advantage to being classified as an Open player if you truly are a Master player. Only a truly selfish person would then be trying to slip into the lower division...and I'm afraid there will always be those guys around.

I'd love to hear ideas out of you guys instead of just hearing how bad the system is. Make some suggestions...I can present them all to the Board of Directors and they can decide if they have merit.

L8R...Ken
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I really think you should do away with the Elite players all together. Make master, the top division. Rank the Elite players with the masters as one division. If teams choose to put open players on their teams, it's up to them. They shouldn't have to. Make it so you can put any team together that you want to, as long as no player has any pro ranking. And of course they still have to have three original members and two others from the same charter. I guess I just see it as being really simple, coming from MN where there are no Elite players. Master, AA, A, and B...works up there.
 
SKUNKBOY said:
I am going to suggest we eliminate the Open player provision with an Elite, maybe allow only one Elite on a Master team, and maybe not allow any Master players on and Open team (that last one creates a problem for smaller communities, but we might be able to work something out in that specific situation). L8R...Ken
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*sob* I am never going to get to play team again.

Okay, if you're going to do this, then do one other thing.... stop classifying female elites in the same category as male elites. If I play on a men's team against other teams, 99% of which will be men, I should be classified AT MOST a master - and therefore be allowed to play in the open teams as long as the other players are not masters. Or on a masters team made up of all masters and 1 MALE elite (as you are proposing). Let's pose this question to the men's MASTER players - do you think any of us ELITE women really play better than you!?
 
How about a system like this:


Masters is bring who you want. Obviously i mean people who play the league and qualified.

Level 1 = no masters.

Level 2 = no level 1 players.

My league team has been mostly the same for years, and i hate the fact that i would even have to think about changing it to compete in the M_A_S_T_E_R_S.
 
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